Gottlieb on Duke . . .

[Dawun]

ESPN recently published an article from Gottlieb titled "What many are thinking, but won't say publicly." In the article, Dougie list the proverbial "elephants in the room" for the upcoming college season. Doug provides his insights on Duke at No. 3. To paraphrase, he argues that Duke has not improved at all with our low post presence. He argues that our team is basically the same because of our inadequate low post presence and lack of speed on the perimeter. To read Gottlieb's analysis click here. (must be a paid subscriber).

Ultimately, I think he's wrong. He's right in that we don't have a dominant low post presence. However, compared to last year, our low post presence is much improved. He does not give any credit to the athleticism and basketball skills of Mason and Miles. They have much to prove this year, but they are better players than any of our big men last year not named Kyle. He also does not factor in the importance of Kyle shifting to the 3. Recently, in a pick up basketball game, I was asked to guard players in the interior. As a guard, playing in the post is incredibly exhausting. The type of defense and energy exerted to guard the perimeter is vastly different from that used to guard the post. To guard the post, you need to remain grounded, move well, and use a lot of upper body strength. As a guard, it takes more energy out of you than guarding a perimeter player. Generally, guarding the perimeter requires a lot of running, and good footwork to avoid screens. For Kyle, shifting to the perimeter will be great for his offensive game. Imagine having to guard DeJuan Blair or Hansbrough, and then trying to score 15 to 20.

First, do we lack a low post presence? Second, if we don'r, does that make our team the same as last year. Finally, how significant is our "lack of speed" on the perimeter?

[diveonthefloor]

Don't believe everything you read. Especially if the author is a credit card thief!

[Dawun]

Don't believe everything you read. Especially if the author is a credit card thief!

hahah I don't believe it. I believe he's wrong for the most part.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

The problem is that Miles and Mason (and Ryan) have not proven themselves YET. It's mainly because they are still relatively unknown so therefore, people like Gottleib have to make assumptions like this on the team. Gottleib is basketball savvy, I do like the guy, but don't tell me about how good or how disappointing Duke is going to be, because in all actuality, he doesn't know. His main job is to look at game film and highlights and talk about what areas teams need to improve and in what areas teams are doing well.

[soccerstud2210]

ESPN recently published an article from Gottlieb titled "What many are thinking, but won't say publicly." In the article, Dougie list the proverbial "elephants in the room" for the upcoming college season. Doug provides his insights on Duke at No. 3. To paraphrase, he argues that Duke has not improved at all with our low post presence. He argues that our team is basically the same because of our inadequate low post presence and lack of speed on the perimeter. To read Gottlieb's analysis click here. (must be a paid subscriber).

Ultimately, I think he's wrong. He's right in that we don't have a dominant low post presence. However, compared to last year, our low post presence is much improved. He does not give any credit to the athleticism and basketball skills of Mason and Miles. They have much to prove this year, but they are better players than any of our big men last year not named Kyle. He also does not factor in the importance of Kyle shifting to the 3. Recently, in a pick up basketball game, I was asked to guard players in the interior. As a guard, playing in the post is incredibly exhausting. The type of defense and energy exerted to guard the perimeter is vastly different from that used to guard the post. To guard the post, you need to remain grounded, move well, and use a lot of upper body strength. As a guard, it takes more energy out of you than guarding a perimeter player. Generally, guarding the perimeter requires a lot of running, and good footwork to avoid screens. For Kyle, shifting to the perimeter will be great for his offensive game. Imagine having to guard DeJuan Blair or Hansbrough, and then trying to score 15 to 20.

First, do we lack a low post presence? Second, if we don'r, does that make our team the same as last year. Finally, how significant is our "lack of speed" on the perimeter?

you can pretty much discredit anything gottlieb and seth davis have to say.

[Greg_Newton]

The problem is that Miles and Mason (and Ryan) have not proven themselves YET. It's mainly because they are still relatively unknown so therefore, people like Gottleib have to make assumptions like this on the team. Gottleib is basketball savvy, I do like the guy, but don't tell me about how good or how disappointing Duke is going to be, because in all actuality, he doesn't know. His main job is to look at game film and highlights and talk about what areas teams need to improve and in what areas teams are doing well.

Agreed. Same with Nolan. I'm pretty content with knowing what I THINK I know about how good we'll be, for now, and letting people talk all they want. I can't really take issue with anyone like Gottlieb for not being sold yet, because we haven't proved anything on the court yet. However, I'll enjoy watching them eat their words if our guys are as good as I'm hoping!

[BlueintheFace]

quite frankly, the frontcourt has to prove it before the perception changes. If I were a national voice on basketball, I might write the same thing. As a Duke fan, I don't believe it and hope like hell that it is wrong

[ice-9]

The other thing though is that we were a #2 seed last year with 30 wins and an ACC championship. Even if we haven't improved from last year, that's still a very good starting point in a field of weaker competition this year.

[roywhite]

The problem is that Miles and Mason (and Ryan) have not proven themselves YET. It's mainly because they are still relatively unknown so therefore, people like Gottleib have to make assumptions like this on the team. Gottleib is basketball savvy, I do like the guy, but don't tell me about how good or how disappointing Duke is going to be, because in all actuality, he doesn't know. His main job is to look at game film and highlights and talk about what areas teams need to improve and in what areas teams are doing well.

Exactly right, in my opinion.

Gottleib can be right or wrong, but is seldom in doubt. He's foolish to have drawn conclusions about "same old Duke" without seeing game action. This team may be better or worse than last year's team, but it certainly will be different.

[whereinthehellami]

Don't believe everything you read. Especially if the author is a credit card thief!

You're not giving Gottlieb enough credit, he is also an insufferable idiot.

[jipops]

Finally, how significant is our "lack of speed" on the perimeter?

I don't buy the "lack of speed" on the perimeter argument. Is Nolan slow? uh, no. Has he seen Andre play? This kid does not lack speed. Scheyer may not be lightning but has exhibited quite enough quickness to both generate offense and defend opposing guards quite well. The only question mark with speed on the perimeter is Kyle and I'd say that is barely a question mark. The help D may need to react quickly if he is guarding a smaller guy, but he's a matchup issue on the other side as well. Gottlieb may be surprised when he sees Lance guarding other opposing wings.

So if we lack speed on the perimeter, then I guess pretty much everyone does. We lack bodies on the perimeter, which is not quite related to speed.

[UrinalCake]

It's natural for us as Duke fans to be defensive about someone writing this, but I don't think he's out of line. Last year around this time we were all convinced that Z and Thomas would made huge leaps, and that Miles and Czyz would be factors. There's a lot of unknowns, and freshmen big men don't typically make huge contributions. Of course, I hope he's wrong.

[Newton_14]

I feel that Gottlieb and others who maintain that this Duke team is no different than the last 2 years, have the following opinion:

They must believe that once Duke gets to conference play the line up will be Nolan, Jon, Andre, Kyle, and Lance, and that we will play small ball and shoot lots and lots of 3's.

I personally do not believe that will happen. I think we will see a lot of action from our collection of Mason, Miles, Lance, Kelly, and Zoubs..

[Battierfan01]

I think Gottlieb is as anti-Duke as anyone in the media.

[SMO]

I think Gottlieb is as anti-Duke as anyone in the media.

I used to think he was just anti-Paulus but this clears it in my mind. I guess he also thinks UNC's perimeter will consist of just Larry Drew II since their back court is largely unproven.

[sagegrouse]

As we have learned from politics, if there are enough idiots of a certain ideological persuasion, there will be plenty of politicians and talk-show hosts on the scene to offer themselves as leaders.

sagegrouse

[CDu]

I feel that Gottlieb and others who maintain that this Duke team is no different than the last 2 years, have the following opinion:

They must believe that once Duke gets to conference play the line up will be Nolan, Jon, Andre, Kyle, and Lance, and that we will play small ball and shoot lots and lots of 3's.

I personally do not believe that will happen. I think we will see a lot of action from our collection of Mason, Miles, Lance, Kelly, and Zoubs..

I tend to agree, and I think people are overreacting to his comments. I think you've nailed it here.

Basically, if you don't buy into the Plumlees, then this team looks a lot like last year's team minus Paulus and Henderson. Gottlieb is apparently not yet buying the Plumlees. And to be honest, I think that's a fair opinion. It could very well wind up being completely wrong, but it's a fair opinion to have. The Plumlees have proven nothing to this point. And if for some reason they aren't ready, well then the team doesn't really look any better than last year's team (perhaps worse).

Now, I do believe that the Plumlees will add something new and different to this team, so I think Gottlieb will wind up being wrong. But he's paid to have an opinion and voice it, and he's simply voicing an opinion that has some basis to it.

[roywhite]

I tend to agree, and I think people are overreacting to his comments. I think you've nailed it here.

Basically, if you don't buy into the Plumlees, then this team looks a lot like last year's team minus Paulus and Henderson. Gottlieb is apparently not yet buying the Plumlees. And to be honest, I think that's a fair opinion. It could very well wind up being completely wrong, but it's a fair opinion to have. The Plumlees have proven nothing to this point... But he's paid to have an opinion and voice it, and he's simply voicing an opinion that has some basis to it.

Not to beat this to death, but I wonder what the basis of his opinion is? Has he seen Duke play in an exhibition or intra-squad game? Watched practice? Talked to people who have watched the Plumlees play?

Whether Duke is a different, improved team in 2009-10 that is likely to go further in the NCAA Tournament is an open question, and people of good will and different perspectives are certainly entitled to their opinion.

To my mind, Gottleib likely has little actual basis for his proclamation, and does not get the benefit of the doubt due to his past history.

[CDu]

Not to beat this to death, but I wonder what the basis of his opinion is? Has he seen Duke play in an exhibition or intra-squad game? Watched practice? Talked to people who have watched the Plumlees play?

Whether Duke is a different, improved team in 2009-10 that is likely to go further in the NCAA Tournament is an open question, and people of good will and different perspectives are certainly entitled to their opinion.

To my mind, Gottleib likely has little actual basis for his proclamation, and does not get the benefit of the doubt due to his past history.

If I had to guess, I would guess Gottlieb is basing his opinion on the fact that Miles Plumlee was a complete non-factor last year and that big men (and Duke is certainly no exception) frequently aren't ready to contribute right away in college basketball.

Given that the Plumlees haven't faced real competition yet this year (the Pfeiffer game doesn't count as their big men were my size and summer league is generally devoid of real defense and gameplanning), I'd say it's fair to believe in either side of the opinion (hopeful or skeptical).

[Billy Dat]

I like Gottlieb and think he's been very fair to Duke over the years and think he treats all teams the same. In the same article, he says UNC doesn't have the horses to repeat despite their lofty ranking, and takes shots at a bunch of other teams.

He's pretty much always been a "talent wins" prognosticator so he betting on Kansas, Kentucky and Texas.

Either way, let's just thank him for the bulletin board material. As many have said, let's be written off and surprise people...although a pre-season top 10 ranking isn't exactly being "written off".