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  1. #1

    Coach K not the best coach?

    I could see him taking a second to somebody - Donovan who is hot. But 4th? Sorta bogus to me - how many coaches have both won a title and made it to the Final 4 a second time since 2000 - not to mention the ACC Championships:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...hes/index.html

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Philly

    What a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by vango View Post
    I could see him taking a second to somebody - Donovan who is hot. But 4th? Sorta bogus to me - how many coaches have both won a title and made it to the Final 4 a second time since 2000 - not to mention the ACC Championships:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...hes/index.html
    Laughable. He is basically a consensus top 3 coach of ALL TIME (Wooden, The Deaner, K) And certainly the only one along with Dean to be compared to Wooden. People hold the fact that he went to 7 final fours in 9 years (86-94) against him now since he only goes to one every couple of years.

    Ridiculous.

  3. #3
    In all honesty, if you look at the last 2 years (which are obivously the most important given Donovans rank of # 1) the only person that I think is wrongly placed anywhere in the top 5 is calhoun. I dont care how many guys you lost to the draft. A good coach doesn't miss the dance. Coach k should be 3 here at WORST

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles

    Question

    I agree that Coach K is one of the best all-time. Probably only second to John Wooden. BUT -- he has not done his best coaching job during the past 5 years. Let's face it. He's made some really stupid/outrageous choices. So....even when my blood drains Duke blue, I have to be honest with myself and question some of his decisions during this time.

    Is it time for him to pass the mantle? Wonder what the rest of Duke Nation thinks?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Cambridge, MA
    You guys are being way too sensitive. The article pretty clearly says that recent success is weighted very heavily, and K did not do a very good coaching job this year.

    And, no, it isn't time for him to "pass the mantle." That's a big overreaction. He's still one of the best coaches overall. We just had a down year. Chill out.
    Last edited by Wander; 04-18-2007 at 03:10 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Durham

    Mandel wets the bed on this one

    I saw this article last week and wrote it off within 2 minutes. When I (so predictably) saw Donovan #1, I knew not to take this seriously at all. And I agree with Skitzle, Krzyzewski and Calhoun were in substantially similar situations this year and Uconn did MUCH worse than Duke. Didn't hear ESPN or CNNSI let out a peep, either.

    They say Coach K is 4th because of his recent underachievements, but I think we can all identify the most notorious tourney underachiever on the list. They say we don't live up to #1 seed status enough lately, but the reason we were a #1 seed so often is because we took 7 out of 8 ACC Tourney titles, another feat no other coach on that list has done. And I don't care how much talent Duke gets, 9 straight Sweet 16s can't be looked at as underachieving. Being given a 1 seed doesn't guarantee anything; ask Roy about that...
    Last edited by Classof06; 04-18-2007 at 04:24 PM.

  7. #7

    Hard to believe what "fans" say

    I really can't believe that any Duke fan would even raise the question as to whether it is time for Coach K to "pass the mantle."

    Yes, it is disappointing that JJ, Shelden and friends only made one Final 4 and this year was very disheartening. But Duke has hardly suffered a fall from the status as one of the elite programs in the nation because of the lack of recent NCAA tournament success.

    If Duke has 2 or 3 more consecutive years like this, maybe there will be cause for concern. But it's not even close to time to worry about this program being in disarray.

    Get a grip and don't pay heed to stupid SI.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dillon, Colorado
    K is where Dean was in 1992 (actually, Dean was a bit better off). Whether he closes out his career with one last push or we start aiming for the Sweet 16 just to have the opportunity to faceplant there remains to be seen.

    I have a strong suspicion we'll end up with the latter.
    As suburban children we floated at night in swimming pools the temperature of blood. -- Douglas Coupland

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Toledo
    And certainly the only one along with Dean to be compared to Wooden.
    I'd add the General in there as well, but I agree. Coach K is about as legendary a coach as one can ever become. He's THE premier coaching talent in the country. Period. I read SI religiously but that list is bogus.
    "Duke is a once in a lifetime opportunity and something you don't pass up on." -Amile Jefferson

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Coack K Did

    Quote Originally Posted by Skitzle View Post
    In all honesty, if you look at the last 2 years (which are obivously the most important given Donovans rank of # 1) the only person that I think is wrongly placed anywhere in the top 5 is calhoun. I dont care how many guys you lost to the draft. A good coach doesn't miss the dance. Coach k should be 3 here at WORST
    If I'm not mistaken Coach K missed the dance also. I guess that you can argue that it was Gaudet who missed it, but it was Coach K's team.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    This is all a question of "what have you done for me lately?".

    Two years ago, people were bashing Donovan for being an underachiever who couldn't get it done in the tourney. Now, he's being added to coaching's Mount Rushmore.

    K will rise again. If you think we hate losing, imagine how he feels.

    dukemsu

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dukemomLA View Post
    I agree that Coach K is one of the best all-time. Probably only second to John Wooden. BUT -- he has not done his best coaching job during the past 5 years. Let's face it. He's made some really stupid/outrageous choices.
    Just curious, what are these "stupid/outrageous choices" that you think Coach K has made?

    Granted, he's certainly made mistakes. But I can't think of anything that I'd classify as "stupid".

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    If I'm not mistaken Coach K missed the dance also. I guess that you can argue that it was Gaudet who missed it, but it was Coach K's team.
    You are very mistaken. Does Pitino get Tubby's National Championship ring since it was his team but Tubby was coaching? No.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC
    I think you guys are being way too sensitive on behalf of K right now, not the K of 20, 15 or 5 years ago. He is still in the top, elite group, but a few other guys are there, too, and currently enjoying even higher levels of success. I think all such rankings should be taken with grains of salt, but I also think this one is fair. If we want K back up there as the unquestioned #1 (as the writer concedes he was), let's earn it with better showings in the tournament.

  15. #15
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    Feb 2007
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    Chesapeake, VA.
    I think perhaps the most laughable thing is that he put Rick Barnes in his "also considered" list. Puh-leeze.

  16. #16
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    Raleigh, NC
    Interesting that the top two coaches on this list coached the two most talented teams.

    I think if an actual thorough analysis was done to compile this list, the names would be completely different.

  17. #17
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC
    To be fair, they also recruited those two most talented teams and deserve credit for that.

    But I agree that, if we went strictly on what they did with limited talent rather than elite talent, the names might be people we seldom think of. Pete Carrill would deserve consideration as one of the all-time best, for instance.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles

    stupid choices

    Quote Originally Posted by gvtucker View Post
    Just curious, what are these "stupid/outrageous choices" that you think Coach K has made?

    Granted, he's certainly made mistakes. But I can't think of anything that I'd classify as "stupid".
    Well, I think he hasn't utilized his players properly. He continues to stick to his 6-7 man rotation when he has 8-10 experienced, viable players sitting on the bench. He doesn't use the backdoor cut, even though he has the players to excel with that. He hates the 2-3 zone, even though that can work miracles with the players he's had in the last few years.

    He often "sticks with the game plan" even when it's NOT WORKING.

    Okay, I sound like a K basher. I'm not. I LOVE Coach K. I idolize K. I'm just trying to be realistic about my concerns from 2002-2007. GO DUKE. GTHCGHT

  19. #19
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    Wherever the wind blows and the leaves dance.

    Coach K's flexibility

    I also think that Coach K's inflexibility sometimes gets in his way of being the best X's and O's guy. I'm in no way saying that I know anywhere close to what he knows but I do think that Coach's strengths lie elsewhere. His ability to motivate, lead, and organize are second to none. But I have felt that over the last few years he has taken steps away from the being a micro-manager to a macro-manager in regards to his approach to coaching, which I think is common as Coaches mature and stay at one job for as many years as he has. There has been some rumblings last year and during the off-season that he is re-evaluating how he does things, so maybe things will change some next season. Regardless, it will be an interesting year next year as Coach has some holes and some options to explore.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by dukemomLA View Post
    Well, I think he hasn't utilized his players properly. He continues to stick to his 6-7 man rotation when he has 8-10 experienced, viable players sitting on the bench. He doesn't use the backdoor cut, even though he has the players to excel with that. He hates the 2-3 zone, even though that can work miracles with the players he's had in the last few years.

    He often "sticks with the game plan" even when it's NOT WORKING.

    Okay, I sound like a K basher. I'm not. I LOVE Coach K. I idolize K. I'm just trying to be realistic about my concerns from 2002-2007. GO DUKE. GTHCGHT
    The problem with your logic is that from 86 to 94, Duke's peak years, all of your mentioned "weaknesses" about Coach K were still true. When has he ever played a lot of zone, for instance? Man-to-man has always been K's staple.

    There really are only two differences between the periods of 86-94 and 99-07, as far as I can tell.
    (1) Duke started losing players to early entry (imo, this has clearly hurt Duke's depth in recent years), and
    (2) Duke started shooting a lot more 3s (this is the only strategical change I've noticed over the years and, imo, is the reason why there's been a tendency since 1995 for Duke to build and blow huge leads [3-pters are less consistent than 2-pt shots; you can build a big lead if you're hot but quickly blow it if you go cold], at least once or twice a season)
    Last edited by Troublemaker; 04-20-2007 at 11:17 AM.

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