RIP Michael Jackson

[g_olaf]

Unconfirmed reports here and there

18 #1 hits.
13 grammy awards.
But mostly, his own Saturday morning cartoon show.

[g_olaf]

It was that very charisma that allowed him to sexually abuse children without threat of violence. His incredible talent could forgive him all of his wierdness - but there are some things that don't get anyone a free pass.

I'm not sure whether I'm separating the artist from the person, separating the child from the adult, or whether somewhere around 1988 MJ body was possessed by an alien being, but I have always separated MJ as jackson 5/Off the Wall/Thriller from MJ the freak show of the last ~20 years.

Kind of like being able to separate Data from Lor... same actor, very different androids.

[allenmurray]

I'm not sure whether I'm separating the artist from the person, separating the child from the adult, or whether somewhere around 1988 MJ body was possessed by an alien being, but I have always separated MJ as jackson 5/Off the Wall/Thriller from MJ the freak show of the last ~20 years.

Kind of like being able to separate Data from Lor... same actor, very different androids.

As an artist he was extraordinary. His work in Off The Wall/Thriller was pop music at its very best. It is great music no matter what. There are many artists who created great art despite having done horrible things. I don't dispute the greatness of his art. And MJ's background and childhood certainly makes his adult behavior (and his inability to eer really grow up himslerf) understandable (not forgiveable, but understandable). But the near beatification I have a hard time stomaching. And when people talk about "his special way with children" I want them to just shut up.

[Shammrog]

Yes, he was a freak, he was weird, he admitted to doing things that seem very odd and inappropriate, but what if . . . he never molested a child? JUST SUPPOSE that he never did it, that those kids were pushed by parents looking to make some money. He was never convicted. We will probably NEVER know for sure. Yet, lots of people, including several in this thread are calling him a pervert, child abuser, etc.

Remember, there are still those that insist Crystal Mangum was raped.

I have thought about that too. But, ever notice that of all the kids he surrounded himself with, few if any were ever girls?

[allenmurray]

When you click on the story link on DBR Headlines the Google ads across the top are all for sex offender registries.

[captmojo]

Outside of the work he did with his brothers, I commend him for saving the rights for The Beatles music away from the bankruptcy court. I feel certain that Mr McCartney does.

[Shammrog]

When you click on the story link on DBR Headlines the Google ads across the top are all for sex offender registries.

And hence the online powers send THEIR opinion of MJ...

[g_olaf]

As an artist he was extraordinary. His work in Off The Wall/Thriller was pop music at its very best. It is great music no matter what. There are many artists who created great art despite having done horrible things. I don't dispute the greatness of his art. And MJ's background and childhood certainly makes his adult behavior (and his inability to eer really grow up himslerf) understandable (not forgiveable, but understandable). But the near beatification I have a hard time stomaching. And when people talk about "his special way with children" I want them to just shut up.

I just pretend that the obituary was written in 1989.

[blazindw]

Certainly I would be glad to be wrong, both for MJ's sake and more importantly for that of the kids - but I don't think I am wrong.

A jury found him not guilty on all charges. Yet, people still consider him guilty. That's your opinion. But, this is not a debate about what people think he did, this is about a man who has shaped the music of an entire generation--namely, my own. I'm the kid that walked into my preschool the day after having floor seats to a Michael Jackson "Bad Tour" concert, walked up to the first kid I saw and went "Who's Bad?" The reason I dance is because of MJ, and the reason why I dance so well is because I emulate his moves. I sing because of MJ, and I love singing his songs till my throat can't handle anymore. He is the single reason I love music so much. To me, he made music (and the music video) worth it.

I, along with hundreds of millions of people today, are focusing on his influence on that generation, not what other people's opinions of what they think happened between MJ and a little kid, which a court and its jury officially ruled didn't happen. That's what this thread is about as well...remembering the man for what he did for music and what his music will continue to do for future generations.

[Shammrog]

A jury found him not guilty on all charges. Yet, people still consider him guilty. That's your opinion. But, this is not a debate about what people think he did, this is about a man who has shaped the music of an entire generation--namely, my own. I'm the kid that walked into my preschool the day after having floor seats to a Michael Jackson "Bad Tour" concert, walked up to the first kid I saw and went "Who's Bad?" The reason I dance is because of MJ, and the reason why I dance so well is because I emulate his moves. I sing because of MJ, and I love singing his songs till my throat can't handle anymore. He is the single reason I love music so much. To me, he made music (and the music video) worth it.

I, along with hundreds of millions of people today, are focusing on his influence on that generation, not what other people's opinions of what they think happened between MJ and a little kid, which a court and its jury officially ruled didn't happen. That's what this thread is about as well...remembering the man for what he did for music and what his music will continue to do for future generations.

Now, D, I understand what you are saying, and MJs entertainment career cannot possibly be overstated.

BUT, taking into account all the boys he surrounded himself with, the "sleepovers," the allegations, the settlements, in addition to the not guilty verdict...

WHAT IF A GENIE popped out of a bottle and said that you have to answer one question. Answer correctly and all your dreams will come true, answer incorrectly and you are dead. The question is:

Did Michael Jackson ever molest one or more children?

What would you answer?

[mkirsh]

I've been watching MJ videos. Here's my favorite -- 1988 Grammy Awards, "Man in the Mirror"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zpTQCQEFhg

Is he lip syncing here? Looks strange at the 4 minute mark

[allenmurray]

A jury found him not guilty on all charges. Yet, people still consider him guilty. That's your opinion. But, this is not a debate about what people think he did, this is about a man who has shaped the music of an entire generation--namely, my own. I'm the kid that walked into my preschool the day after having floor seats to a Michael Jackson "Bad Tour" concert, walked up to the first kid I saw and went "Who's Bad?" The reason I dance is because of MJ, and the reason why I dance so well is because I emulate his moves. I sing because of MJ, and I love singing his songs till my throat can't handle anymore. He is the single reason I love music so much. To me, he made music (and the music video) worth it.

I, along with hundreds of millions of people today, are focusing on his influence on that generation, not what other people's opinions of what they think happened between MJ and a little kid, which a court and its jury officially ruled didn't happen. That's what this thread is about as well...remembering the man for what he did for music and what his music will continue to do for future generations.

The only crime Al Capone was ever found guilty of was tax evasion. I guess he had nothing to do with the Valentine's Day massacre after all.

[AtlBluRew]

Is he lip syncing here? Looks strange at the 4 minute mark

I don't think so. I watched it for that because the first video I watched was the Motown 25 one of "Billy Jean," where he debuted the moon walk but was clearly lip synching. On the Grammy show, there were some moments where his voice was quieter and that version was longer than the radio or album versions of the song ... a few added sha-mon's here and there.

[jma4life]

OJ Simpson was also found not guilty.

No one will know what Jackson actually did. That he was found not guilty, is unfortunately, not proof that he was innocent.

The weird thing with MJ is, I know a lot of people that think he was guilty that still adore him.

I guess it's one thing if you're a really big fan so you kind of decide to take the view that his being found not guilty is proof of his innocence (I'm not judging, I'd do the same thing with certain guys, and to an extent, did it with Jackson myself). For people in that category, the adoration makes sense. But for the people that actually think he was guilty, yet still shower him with adoration, well, I guess star power and the absolute talent he had can make people view some heinous stuff less seriously.

Don't want to detract from those trying to show respect as I love his music, and am sad to see him go.

[JasonEvans]

I think it is possible to enjoy his music, praise his talent, marvel at his impact, and mourn the loss of those things while also being aware that away from the world of entertainment he was (at least) a very strange person and (at worst) perhaps a truly horrible person capable of one of the worst crimes known to society.

Not sure if that makes sense, but that is where I fall in this discussion. At this moment, I am watching VH1 specials on his career, enjoying some of the most amazing music and music videos of all time, and not really thinking about the insanity that was his life away from the public eye.

As for that question from the genie, I think it depends upon what molest means. If it means sexual intercourse or gratification with a child, then I think the answer is no, Michael never did that. But, I think Michael certainly did things that all of us would consider quite inappropriate with a child such as sleep in the same bed with them and cuddle in a somewhat sexual way and perhaps some other stuff. Lisa Marie said that she saw some strange behavior during their marriage.

--Jason "what is the Genie asked if Michael and Lisa Marie ever had sex, what would you answer then?" Evans

[jma4life]

I pretty much agree with Jason.

I've just always found it odd that guys like Clemens or bonds who alledgedly cheated on a sport are viewed with absolute distain while Jackson who most likely had pretty inappropriate though not in my opinion illegal interactins with children gets more of a freepass. I'm as guilty as anyone else though.

[YourLandlord]

I'm as guilty as anyone else though.

Steroids, or the kiddie stuff?

[hc5duke]

The Blogosphere and Twitter is going crazy with this story that Jordan Chandler supposedly admitted he lied about the molestation - I can't find a single official source for the story, so I'm assuming this is a hoax for now, but just wanted to see if anyone can find some confirmation/refutation on this.

Also, I'm sure everyone has seen the Filipino prison Thriller Youtube video, here is the latest one that is supposed to be a tribute to Michael Jackson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK25cfzdTTg

[jma4life]

I thought most people already credibly believed that the kid did lie for the money though weird (but not illegal) stuff still went on. Could be off base on that one but I thought that was the general consensus.

[bjornolf]

Someone mentioned Elvis. I think the similarities are pretty startling. Both were HUGE music stars. Michael was obsessed with Elvis supposedly. Married Elvis' daughter. One of the reasons she gave after the divorce was that he married her to try to get the rights to her dad's songs. Elvis had a thing for very young women. Whether you believe that Jackson abused young boys or not, he definitely had an odd relationship with them. One had Graceland, the other Neverland. Both had chimps. Both became paranoid recluses in later life. And both died far too young under at least slightly odd circumstances where drugs had at least something to do with it (I know we don't know 100% yet if it did for Jackson, but it probably did...we'll see on that one). And both leave a sad and somewhat confusing legacy. I wonder if we'll start having Jackson sightings?