ACC's 7th best: Duke 2001

[johnb]

Andrew Jones picks Duke's 2001 team to be the 7th best of all time.

http://www.bustersports.com/blog/acc...o-7-2001-duke/

I assume 1999 and 1992 are still to come. I agree '99 was a better team than '01 even though it didn't win the championship, and I wonder how high he'll put '92.

[devildownunder]

Andrew Jones picks Duke's 2001 team to be the 7th best of all time.

http://www.bustersports.com/blog/acc...o-7-2001-duke/

I assume 1999 and 1992 are still to come. I agree '99 was a better team than '01 even though it didn't win the championship, and I wonder how high he'll put '92.

2001 was a better team than 1999. Faced better competition, IMO, though that's arguable. Was more versatile, more unified and was able to overcome the loss of its key post player during the postseason and still win.

If you look at what's happened post-Duke, You can even make a good case that 2001 was more talented than 1999.

Think about it for a bit first, then tear into me.

[FerryFor50]

Looks like 1999 got #6:
http://www.bustersports.com/blog/acc...o-6-1999-duke/

So, I guess you're both right?

[blueprofessor]

It will be a joke if he rates the UNC 1957 team any higher.
The 1982 UNC team,although winning the NCAA championship thanks in part to a Gtown gift, was no way as dominant as the 1999 Duke team.
Best--Blueprofessor

[Faison1]

It will be a joke if he rates the UNC 1957 team any higher.
The 1982 UNC team,although winning the NCAA championship thanks in part to a Gtown gift, was no way as dominant as the 1999 Duke team.
Best--Blueprofessor

Wait a second, wait a second...you are going to compare Duke '99 with UNC '82? Please forgive me if I am getting my years wrong, but didn't UNC '82 have MJ, James Worthy, Sam Perkins, amongst others?

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, when you look at that UNC roster, I guess it's not that far apart from Duke '99....but still, in a head to head matchup, I think I'd have to go with UNC '82...

[77devil]

It will be a joke if he rates the UNC 1957 team any higher.
The 1982 UNC team,although winning the NCAA championship thanks in part to a Gtown gift, was no way as dominant as the 1999 Duke team.
Best--Blueprofessor

Wait a second, wait a second...you are going to compare Duke '99 with UNC '82? Please forgive me if I am getting my years wrong, but didn't UNC '82 have MJ, James Worthy, Sam Perkins, amongst others?

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, when you look at that UNC roster, I guess it's not that far apart from Duke '99....but still, in a head to head matchup, I think I'd have to go with UNC '82...

I would rate the 1974 Wolfpack above both and arguably the best ACC team ever. I suspect, however, that Mr. Jones wll pick the '82 Heels.

[Wander]

2001 was a better team than 1999.

And 1992.

[roywhite]

By process of elimination, the top 5 should (in no particular order) be:
Duke 1992
UNC 1982
NC State 1974
NC State 1973
UNC 1957

Am I missing any, or guessing wrong?

NC State 1973 was outstanding, finished the regular season undefeated, but was not eligibile for the NCAA Tournament; do they deserve to be ranked in this group?

UNC 1957---they helped establish the prominence of the ACC, but does a team before integration really qualify in the top 5?

All these teams had some close calls in the tournament, some bordering on miraculous, so that's not likely a determining factor.

Duke 1992 is my choice, but I may be a little biased.

[dkbaseball]

I wonder if numbers 1-6 put five NBA starters on the floor, as 2001 Duke did. Or any other college team, for that matter.

Well, now that I think about it, I can answer my own question. As of this season with Dahntay Jones becoming a starter, 2002 Duke put five NBA starters on the floor.

[mr. synellinden]

By process of elimination, the top 5 should (in no particular order) be:
Duke 1992
UNC 1982
NC State 1974
NC State 1973
UNC 1957

Am I missing any, or guessing wrong?

NC State 1973 was outstanding, finished the regular season undefeated, but was not eligibile for the NCAA Tournament; do they deserve to be ranked in this group?

UNC 1957---they helped establish the prominence of the ACC, but does a team before integration really qualify in the top 5?

All these teams had some close calls in the tournament, some bordering on miraculous, so that's not likely a determining factor.

Duke 1992 is my choice, but I may be a little biased.

I agree with others who have said that 2001 was the best Duke team ever. Five NBA starters; some people would argue the two best players in Duke history - certainly 2 of the top 7 (although 1991-92 maybe had 3 of the top 10) - plus two others in Dunleavy and Boozer who might have had their numbers retired had they stayed another year.

[Wander]

I wonder if numbers 1-6 put five NBA starters on the floor, as 2001 Duke did. Or any other college team, for that matter.

Or brought a sixth NBA starter off the bench, as 2001 did. Which doesn't even include Nate James who (I think, not sure) was a 3rd team or honorable mention for all-ACC that year.

Not to mention they had a higher margin of victory in the tournament than 1992 (oh, and actually won the thing, '99ers).

[Faison1]

Not to mention they had a higher margin of victory in the tournament than 1992 (oh, and actually won the thing, '99ers).

Those are good arguments, but I have to disagree. If you went by that logic, you'd have to pick UNC 2009 as one of the best, since they eclipsed Duke 2001's average margin of victory.

I'm guessing the general consensus is that the last 10 years of NCAA Basketball quality has deteriorated quite a bit. Much like Florida's back-to-back titles....I don't hold them in such high regard because I feel that the quality of competition was much weaker than that of previous back-to-back titles.

[blueprofessor]

Wait a second, wait a second...you are going to compare Duke '99 with UNC '82? Please forgive me if I am getting my years wrong, but didn't UNC '82 have MJ, James Worthy, Sam Perkins, amongst others?

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, when you look at that UNC roster, I guess it's not that far apart from Duke '99....but still, in a head to head matchup, I think I'd have to go with UNC '82...

I used the word dominant.
The 1982 Heels were 32--2 (12-2) and had 2 1st team all-ACC players (Worthy and Perkins) ,as did UVA (POY Sampson and Othell Wilson), and no player on the 2nd team.Jordan was Rookie of the Year.Worthy was AP 2nd team AA (UPI 1st team) while Perkins was not on any of the 3 teams of AP AA but made UPI 2nd team AA.Jordan would be named NPOY in 1984.Jordan and Perkins would be named AA the next year (1983).Worthy was the top draft pick in 1982 and Black 59th, while Jordan and Perkins were 3rd and 4th ,respectively, in 1984. The starters were Black,Doherty,Jordan, Worthy, and Perkins. UNC was 32--2,averaged 66.7 ppg, and surrendered 55.4 ppg.Margin:11.2ppg.
UNC beat James Madison 52-50 in the first tourney game, beat Alabama in Raleigh 74--69,then Villanova 70--60, and in the FF Houston 68--63, then Gtown ( which led 62--61 with less than a minute to play) 63--62 on Freddy Brown's mistaken pass to Worthy. UNC was #1 in the final AP poll, but played only one top 10 team in the tourney(#12 'Bama) before facing #7 Gtown. Plenty of talent but nowhere as dominant as Duke in 1999.

In 1999 Duke started Carrawell and Battier at forward,Brand at center, and Langdon and Avery at guard. Duke was 37-2 (16--0) , averaged 91.8 ppg and allowed 67.2.Margin:24.6 ppg. Duke shot .514 from the floor. Key reserves were Maggette, James, and Burgess. In the 1999 NBA draft, Brand was #1,Langdon was #11,Maggette was #13, and Avery was #14.Cwell was 41st in the 2000 draft,while Battier was number 6 in the 2001 draft. Battier was NDPOY in 1999, Brand was NPOY, Langdon was 2nd team AA. All-ACC: Brand and Langdon 1st,Avery 2nd, and Carrawell and Battier 3rd.Carrawell would become ACC POY in 2000 as would Battier(and NPOY) in 2001.By the next year,2000, CWell was 1st team AA and Battier 2nd.
In the NCAA tournament: Duke 99--FL A&M 58;Duke 97--Tulsa 56; Duke 78--SW Missouri 61;Duke 85--Temple 64; Duke 68--Mich St. 62 (D 32--20 at half); and UConn 77--74.Duke beat the AP #2 team M St. and lost to the AP #3 team.
Duke was deeper(6 or 7 excellent to great players) and had a phenomenal 24.6 ppg average margin ( UNC's was 11.2). Duke was a stronger outside shooting team and played excellent defense. Black and Doherty would be abused in matchups. Jordan would improve greatly,but he was not even 2nd team all-ACC in 1982 and was not a developed outside shooter.
Forgive my heresy,but that is how I see it.
Best--Blue Prof

[roywhite]

The starters were Black,Doherty,Jordan, Worthy, and Perkins. UNC was 32--2,averaged 66.7 ppg, and surrendered 55.4 ppg.Margin:11.2ppg.

Duke was 37-2 (16--0) , averaged 91.8 ppg and allowed 67.2.Margin:24.6 ppg. Duke shot .514 from the floor.

Striking to see what a difference in scoring there was before and after the advent of the shot clock and 3-point scoring line (shot clock in 1985-86 and universal 3-point line in 1986-87).

IMO those rule changes increased the chances of upsets; superior teams could no longer run out the clock so easily, and a hot shooting night from the 3-point line gave many underdogs a chance.

So if we look at our presumed top 5 (Duke 1992, UNC 1982, NCSU 1974, NCSU 1973, and UNC 1957)---this is another factor in favor of a vote for the Duke 1992 team. They went wire-to-wire, repeated as national champs, and did it during the shot clock, 3-point era. Truly outstanding.

[Faison1]

Duke was deeper(6 or 7 excellent to great players) and had a phenomenal 24.6 ppg average margin ( UNC's was 11.2). Duke was a stronger outside shooting team and played excellent defense. Black and Doherty would be abused in matchups. Jordan would improve greatly,but he was not even 2nd team all-ACC in 1982 and was not a developed outside shooter.
Forgive my heresy,but that is how I see it.
Best--Blue Prof

Wow!! Great write-up. Thank you for that. I have always considered the '99 Duke team to be one of K's best. I can remember the SI Cover that showed Elton, saying "They're Back, but This Time They're Nasty" (or something like that). It is shocking to think they bungled the Championship in the last few minutes like they did. I guess we will never know who was the better team (between Duke '99 and UNC '82).

But I will say I thought UNC '98 was one of their better teams, as they handled Duke pretty well that year, minus a HUGE comeback during senior day. I was at the '98 ACC Championship, and I thought I was watching the second coming of MJ in Antawn Jamison. Carawell put on a huge show in the ACC Finals, but Elton and Co. just couldn't stop Vince and Antawn. Much like Duke '99, they (UNC) lost in the semi's to Utah after steamrolling everyone else (again, without checking facts, that's how I remember it).

[roywhite]

http://www.bustersports.com/blog/acc...1973-nc-state/

NC State 1973 is number 5 on the list.

I'll guess:

1. Duke 1992
2. NC State 1974
3. UNC 1982
4. UNC 1957

[sagegrouse]

http://www.bustersports.com/blog/acc...1973-nc-state/

NC State 1973 is number 5 on the list.

I'll guess:

1. Duke 1992
2. NC State 1974
3. UNC 1982
4. UNC 1957

If UNC 1957 is ranked number one, then this list is the biggest joke on the entire planet.

sagegrouse

[blueprofessor]

http://www.bustersports.com/blog/acc...09/05/28/legen

The writer sees the Jordan of 1982 and thinks he saw the Jordan of 1989. All hail the great UNC of 1957!
This is as humorous as the Calipari--Kentucky developments.

Best regards---Blueprofessor

[turnandburn55]

http://www.bustersports.com/blog/acc...09/05/28/legen

The writer sees the Jordan of 1982 and thinks he saw the Jordan of 1989. All hail the great UNC of 1957!
This is as humorous as the Calipari--Kentucky developments.

Best regards---Blueprofessor

Unsurprising... remember this one??

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cen...e_basketball/#

This may have been this biggest joke in history. How Jordan even fits in the top 20 is beyond me...

Oh, and Duke 2001 would have given UNC 1982 everything they could handle

Duhon = Black
JWill > Jordan
Dunleavy > Doherty
Yo Daddy = Worthy
Boozer = Perkins

[weezie]

Again, why does this guy get such props for his "vision?"
Kind of a perfect example of navel gazing.