Kentucky thread (recruiting/scholarship crunch/Cal and ethics)

[Kfanarmy]

S E M A N T I C S

It all comes down to that plain and simple.

that is a sad indictment on ethics education. not being able to tell what is right or wrong unless it is written in a rule book precludes you from being able to make an ethical decision in any new situation, essentially unless their are rules enforcers around.

[ACCBBallFan]

I don't know the rules, but maybe somebody does. If UK has 17 on scholarship and only 13 can ,, be on scholarship ?? how does it work ?
Can Cal have 4 Soph, Jr or Sr. Redshirt for Wall's ONE and DONE yr ? then bring them back ?
I don't know all the different type redshirts there are,, medical redhirt ? what do they call all the Freshmen football redshirts ?

Rogue, I don't think anyone answered you question. So here is my undrstanding.

Red-shirt players on scholarship still count against the limit of 13 the year they sit out. So that does not solve the problem,

Only way out is that some of these guys be shown the door, or having to pay own freight or helped to transfer somewhere they did not want to go, lose a year of PT if Div I, possibly lose academic credits, etc..

When Meeks if not already gone, Patterson, Wall and probably Cousins and others are gone if Cal does not get another batch of one and dones to replace them, the guys who stick around may make slots 10-13 scholarships back again some year or be walk ons.

Dave Leitao at UVA had 14 the year Singletary unexpectedly came back had to deal with it, but 17 is way beyond accidental. Can't recall how he wiggled out of it, but know there was a problem.

Though still a flavor of unethical, what might be fairer to the students is to after revoking their scholarsips, give them some under the table money.

If they choose to not even walk on and just get the academics paid for, not that shady as other options, best of several bad options

If Cal or booster pays them out of their picket and Cal lets them walk on as practice players who are virtually assured they get no PT this year and take their chances next year, less ethical but not as unethical as some other options..

Forty years ago when I was in college if someone paid my freight, there is no issue. If I walk on and make the team it gets a little grey. If I am a really good player (so purely hypothertical) and start, thus just skirting hte rules, it's back to scum bag.

Comparisons to what happens in football as happened on other boards don't cut it as the football limit though probably double digits is way higher than 13, and two wrongs do not make a right.

[BD80]

Three down, one or two to go

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...v=ap&type=lgns

Kentucky announced Tuesday that three players from last year’s squad are leaving the program, bringing the Wildcats closer to their roster limit of 13 scholarship players.

Sophomore forward A.J. Stewart plans to transfer, as does 6-foot-3 freshman Donald Williams. Senior Jared Carter will not seek a fifth year of eligibility. Kentucky is now down to 15 scholarship players—including coach John Calipari’s incoming freshman class.

That number could be 14 should top scorer Jodie Meeks leave for the NBA draft.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Breaking story about John Wall's sentencing following last month's arrest...http://www.wral.com/

[blueprofessor]

Breaking story about John Wall's sentencing following last month's arrest...http://www.wral.com/

In Lexington, isn't practicing your shot community service?

Best--Blue Prof

[El_Diablo]

Breaking story about John Wall's sentencing following last month's arrest...http://www.wral.com/

Here's what it says...

Breaking News: Local high school basketball standout John Wall has been sentenced to 75 hours of community service in connection with a breaking and entering last month.

[KenTankerous]

In Lexington, isn't practicing your shot community service?

Best--Blue Prof

NO!

Making your shots.

[FireOgilvie]

This is a great day for Kentucky if you believe that bad press is better than no press. Three stories on ESPN right now: John Wall pleading guilty to the misdemeanor, Gillispie suing the school, and Memphis/Calipari being investigated for various infractions. Nice work!

[whereinthehellami]

You know what they say about alot of smoke. There is either one heck of a barbeque going down or Kentucky is a top 10 team again.

[blueprofessor]

Not every Wildcat scribe is playing dumb!
http://www.kentucky.com/827/story/811108.html

Eye-opening and extremely critical call--out!

Best--Blueprofessor

[KenTankerous]

I have made my discomfort with Calipari painfully obvious on this board. But being that we have lapsed a bit, I want to explore a phenomenon that I've been keenly attuned to since Cal was hired - actually, since Billy Clyde was dismissed.

Kentucky was a joke when they dismissed Tubby. And Duke nation took great pleasure in the antics and fumbles of Gillespie - he had no contract, he had no class, he had no recruits, he had no game against Gardner-Webb, he had less against VMI. Third round exit from the NIT! You reveled in that. Many of you were even sympathetic and conciliatory, wanting UK to return to prominence because that was good for college hoops as a whole.

Then UK reels in Calipari, a wizkid dribbledrive coordinator and John Wooden caliber recruiter. You guys turn a little cold to your conciliation.

Cal lands the greatest recruiting class since God got letters of intent from John the Baptist AND Jesus Christ. Well surely, according to this board, he HAD to cheat.

And now Chicago school board changes grades and doesn't thoroughly check ID's at the SAT's and Kentucky needs to be given the kiss of death - no scholarships, no tv, no post season.

What I am trying to get my head around is they way Duke fans think anyone that lands a recruit they wanted and Coach K courted must have cheated to get them to NOT go to Duke. I mean, did the whole Maggette incident not register on your radars? There is almost always a little dirt with these million dollar shoe contract teenagers.

So if you can give Coach K a pass on Maggette, how can you fry Kentucky for something that might have happened in Chicago to benefit a recruit to Memphis?

[roywhite]

I have made my discomfort with Calipari painfully obvious on this board. But being that we have lapsed a bit, I want to explore a phenomenon that I've been keenly attuned to since Cal was hired - actually, since Billy Clyde was dismissed.

Kentucky was a joke when they dismissed Tubby. And Duke nation took great pleasure in the antics and fumbles of Gillespie - he had no contract, he had no class, he had no recruits, he had no game against Gardner-Webb, he had less against VMI. Third round exit from the NIT! You reveled in that. Many of you were even sympathetic and conciliatory, wanting UK to return to prominence because that was good for college hoops as a whole.

Then UK reels in Calipari, a wizkid dribbledrive coordinator and John Wooden caliber recruiter. You guys turn a little cold to your conciliation.

Cal lands the greatest recruiting class since God got letters of intent from John the Baptist AND Jesus Christ. Well surely, according to this board, he HAD to cheat.

And now Chicago school board changes grades and doesn't thoroughly check ID's at the SAT's and Kentucky needs to be given the kiss of death - no scholarships, no tv, no post season.

What I am trying to get my head around is they way Duke fans think anyone that lands a recruit they wanted and Coach K courted must have cheated to get them to NOT go to Duke. I mean, did the whole Maggette incident not register on your radars? There is almost always a little dirt with these million dollar shoe contract teenagers.

So if you can give Coach K a pass on Maggette, how can you fry Kentucky for something that might have happened in Chicago to benefit a recruit to Memphis?

Ken, I enjoy your contributions to the board. But I don't see recent allegations about Rose's recruitment to Memphis and about UK's over-recruitment of scholarship players as having much to do with Duke. Duke had nothing to do with the article quoted above. Coach K never brought in 17 players for 13 spots. Duke has never had a Final Four appearance "vacated". Calipari has had one Final Four appearance vacated and is working on two.

[allenmurray]

I have made my discomfort with Calipari painfully obvious on this board. But being that we have lapsed a bit, I want to explore a phenomenon that I've been keenly attuned to since Cal was hired - actually, since Billy Clyde was dismissed.

Kentucky was a joke when they dismissed Tubby. And Duke nation took great pleasure in the antics and fumbles of Gillespie - he had no contract, he had no class, he had no recruits, he had no game against Gardner-Webb, he had less against VMI. Third round exit from the NIT! You reveled in that. Many of you were even sympathetic and conciliatory, wanting UK to return to prominence because that was good for college hoops as a whole.

Then UK reels in Calipari, a wizkid dribbledrive coordinator and John Wooden caliber recruiter. You guys turn a little cold to your conciliation.

Cal lands the greatest recruiting class since God got letters of intent from John the Baptist AND Jesus Christ. Well surely, according to this board, he HAD to cheat.

And now Chicago school board changes grades and doesn't thoroughly check ID's at the SAT's and Kentucky needs to be given the kiss of death - no scholarships, no tv, no post season.

What I am trying to get my head around is they way Duke fans think anyone that lands a recruit they wanted and Coach K courted must have cheated to get them to NOT go to Duke. I mean, did the whole Maggette incident not register on your radars? There is almost always a little dirt with these million dollar shoe contract teenagers.

So if you can give Coach K a pass on Maggette, how can you fry Kentucky for something that might have happened in Chicago to benefit a recruit to Memphis?

frequency

[KenTankerous]

Good valid points, Roy and Allen. But I don't think I am articulating my question correctly.

Let me try again.

Before being hired at UK, Calipari was pretty low on the DBR radar. Had he not gone to Kentucky would the NCAA allegations be as relevant to DBR as they have become?

I suppose this could be construed as trying to get Duke fans to admit that, when competitive, Kentucky really does matter.

We all know that Kentucky will do things for wins that Coach K and Duke would never even consider. But why is it suddenly a talking point? The allegations are not that damning, really. It seems to me that were Kentucky not a potential force to be reckoned with next March, the SAT and grade bumping would be a "Hey did anyone notice" type thread that would quickly sink to page two.

But maybe I am just fishing for validation and spending way too much time posting about why we are posting about what we are posting.

[Indoor66]

Good valid points, Roy and Allen. But I don't think I am articulating my question correctly.

Let me try again.

Before being hired at UK, Calipari was pretty low on the DBR radar. Had he not gone to Kentucky would the NCAA allegations be as relevant to DBR as they have become?

I suppose this could be construed as trying to get Duke fans to admit that, when competitive, Kentucky really does matter.

We all know that Kentucky will do things for wins that Coach K and Duke would never even consider. But why is it suddenly a talking point? The allegations are not that damning, really. It seems to me that were Kentucky not a potential force to be reckoned with next March, the SAT and grade bumping would be a "Hey did anyone notice" type thread that would quickly sink to page two.

But maybe I am just fishing for validation and spending way too much time posting about why we are posting about what we are posting.

Is this as opposed to posting about posters who post about what we are posting in these posts?

[KenTankerous]

Is this as opposed to posting about posters who post about what we are posting in these posts?

Kind of, It is more about what gets posted when postings are posted regarding the postings that people are and are NOT posting, and more importantly why they are posting them on a weekend as beautiful as this when they should be gardening.

And gardening, yeah, Cal's got dirt under his fingernails. But he didn't scratch dirt. He wasn't even aware that was dirt he was scratching. That dirt was in Chicago. He can't reach that from here.

[Indoor66]

Kind of, It is more about what gets posted when postings are posted regarding the postings that people are and are NOT posting, and more importantly why they are posting them on a weekend as beautiful as this when they should be gardening.

And gardening, yeah, Cal's got dirt under his fingernails. But he didn't scratch dirt. He wasn't even aware that was dirt he was scratching. That dirt was in Chicago. He can't reach that from here.

Oh! Now I understand. Thank you.

[Lulu]

...Before being hired at UK, Calipari was pretty low on the DBR radar. Had he not gone to Kentucky would the NCAA allegations be as relevant to DBR as they have become? ...

I personally do not think this is accurate at all. Calipari and Memphis were always pretty high on the radar, and there has been talk on these boards for years about his ethics and the type of program he runs. There were full rounds of discussion when news came out about Memphis having a 0% graduation rate, as just one example from a few years ago that I can recall off the top of my head.

Kentucky is a classic big name basketball program. When Kentucky gets a new coach it's big news in the college basketball world. When Kentucky decides to bring in a coach with an ethical background that has knowingly been challenged for years that is also big news. This might be why there are full blown stories and articles about this all over the web, not just at DBR.

This has nothing to do with John Wall, apart from the scholarship situation and that discussion. John Wall might have perked up these boards for a bit before announcing, bringing it a bit more traffic for the off-season months, but the discussion about Kentucky and Calipari wouldn't be any different. Those of us who always wished Kentucky would regain some of their prominence just wanted it to happen with a coach with a more respectable reputation and perhaps carrying an image with at least some semblance of devotion to the "collegiate" part of collegiate athletes. I can't even speak to whether Calipari has actually done anything wrong, but there is no doubt what reputation he carried, and that did not matter to Kentucky. (And we all know it wasn't because they thought an honest guy with a bad rep deserved a shot at coaching their team... There were far more important things at play.)

I don't like to see any school other than Duke win the title, but Tubby winning is a hundred-fold better than Calipari. I'm not even sure who I'd pick if it were Calipari vs Calhoun... but I guess I can just go with Cal and call it a day.

[grossbus]

"I'm not even sure who I'd pick if it were Calipari vs Calhoun."

a very tough call, indeed. history would make me go with cal, too.

[blueprofessor]

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...n-the-defense/

The disgust grows!
Best--Blueprofessor