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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    I'm really not surprised by some of the feedback my two posts on this thread have generated.

    I'm also not surprised that no one responded to my question about where they stood when Ol' Roy pushed for the rules change limiting kids time to explore their options of going pro, a change backed by Coach K.

    I guess when we talk about being altruistic and looking out for the best interest of players, it's only when it suits our needs.

    It's alright if you don't send me a Christmas card or invite me to your Labor Day cookout, I can live with it. Just try to be honest about why your posting on this thread. The majority of you are upset about losing out on Wall, if it's any other kid we weren't interested in, no one would give a rats you know what.

  2. #62

    Calipari sighting

    I went with a friend to the Cracker Barrel in Morrisville NC this morning and was reading the paper while waiting for my food and our waiter saw me reading the paper and asked if I was a college basketball fan. I said yes and he said he was too and that Calipari was eating on the other side of the restaurant. I asked him who he pulled for and he said he was a Tar Heel fan and asked who I liked ( apparently he didn't see the Duke hat I was wearing ), I of course told him I was a Duke fan. Anyway on to the other stuff, he told me Calipari ate a nice meal and left NO tip at all. NONE, not even one dollar. Just figured I would share that info.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    while we’re on the topic of ethics maybe we should discuss the word integrity. I think we need this discussion as several of you seem to be sorely lacking in that department.
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    if the man isn’t breaking any current rules it would appear that what he is doing technically can’t be unethical.
    Do you really not understand the difference between following the "letter of the law" and behaving in an ethical way?

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Wilmington
    I don't know the rules, but maybe somebody does. If UK has 17 on scholarship and only 13 can ,, be on scholarship ?? how does it work ?
    Can Cal have 4 Soph, Jr or Sr. Redshirt for Wall's ONE and DONE yr ? then bring them back ?
    I don't know all the different type redshirts there are,, medical redhirt ? what do they call all the Freshmen football redshirts ?

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog44 View Post
    ... our waiter ... told me Calipari ate a nice meal and left NO tip at all. NONE, not even one dollar. Just figured I would share that info.
    The player he was with probably thought Cal had left the money for him.

    Congrats to Kentucky and Coach Cal. He is a truly amazing recruiter. He even got Wall to sign a LOI. Getting Bledsoe and Wall is truly astonishing. I'd bet Coach Cal could get laid at a convent.

    There will be tons of pressure and tons of scrutiny. It will be interesting if Meeks comes back to see how the team comes together. There simply won't be enough points available to get the 2010 draft picks the ppg they will expect. Sure, Cal will let them run up huge scores, but even still, at least a couple of the 6 2010 draft prospects will be disappointed.

    It will be interesting to see how Cal gets all the freshman playing come tourney time.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by allenmurray View Post
    Do you really not understand the difference between following the "letter of the law" and behaving in an ethical way?
    S E M A N T I C S

    It all comes down to that plain and simple.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    So Sidney Lowe,
    We apologize dude, that we failed to inform you about the new rule. You took over at NCSU and did your best to coach up the team you inherited from Sendek, and you went the old fashion way of letting the Sendek kids stay on and you recruited your kids 1 or 2 at a time based on the amount of available scholarships you had each year. Going in to Season 4 you will finally have a team of your recruits. We do applaud you though Sid, as most of us feel that is the ethical thing to do..

    However Sid, we now know there was another option available to you. You could have immediately recruited as many new kids for year 1 as you possibly could get to sign with you and if you ended up 5 or 6 scholarships over the limit... no biggie, you could have just signed all the new guys and "let things things work themselves out" over that 1st summer!! No need to renew any of the scholarships of the Sendek kids umm, that, umm, you know, "would not be suited to the style of play you roll with"....We regret not passing the information about this new option to you sooner...

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    S E M A N T I C S

    It all comes down to that plain and simple.
    If you think that's the difference between following the letter of the law and behaving in an ethical manner, I've got an educational conference I recommend you attend.

    http://www.fuqua.duke.edu/centers/cole/

    You'll love the main speaker and you might learn something.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    No this is not semantics. Calipari isn't doing anything to violate NCAA regs but that does not mean he is doing what is right. Just because you are not breaking the law doesn't mean you are doing the right thing. Come on, do we really have to go into depth on this?

    Calipari has recruited the best class in recent memory. How he handles the complications from the scholarship limit will speak volumes about his ethic. To date, he has done nothing wrong. He may actually be able to finagle this situation to the benefit and satisfaction of all parties involved. I only say this because he has convinced Wall and Bledsoe to join Meeks and fourteen others to compete for playing time when they very well could have all gone to any one of the top ten elite programs and seen immediate playing time without this kind of competition.

    If he does pull this off, and manages to mold these super egos into a team rather than separate playmakers auditioning for the scouts, then maybe he is the new breed of College coach.

    But that is a long, long way from May 20th.

  10. #70
    Someone posted this link deep, deep, deep in the John Wall thread(about a month ago). I don't like Cal that much either, but I guess when coaches take over new teams the makeover can get ugly....legal...and unethical to most. If the story is right at least Cal is giving them time to change schools after the kick in the behind.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/sp...0amaker&st=cse


    Whatever. This is my last look into the Kentucky/Wall threads.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by majinemesis View Post
    Someone posted this link deep, deep, deep in the John Wall thread(about a month ago). I don't like Cal that much either, but I guess when coaches take over new teams the makeover can get ugly....legal...and unethical to most. If the story is right at least Cal is giving them time to change schools after the kick in the behind.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/sp...0amaker&st=cse


    Whatever. This is my last look into the Kentucky/Wall threads.
    A ton of people had a problem with Amaker doing that. It was a really bad move, in my opinion. Especially not doing it early enough for them to transfer (although I don't know if you'd actually want to transfer out of Harvard just to sit on the bench at some other school). Amaker allowed them to play for the JV team. The Kentucky guys are actually on scholarship, which makes that situation even worse. They go from going to school for free to having to pay full tuition if they want to stay (probably out of state).

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Southern California

    What?

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog44 View Post
    Anyway on to the other stuff, he told me Calipari ate a nice meal and left NO tip at all. NONE, not even one dollar. Just figured I would share that info.
    He is going to make millions of dollars next year, and he can't even leave a tip?

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wherever the wind blows and the leaves dance.
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    I'm really not surprised by some of the feedback my two posts on this thread have generated.

    I guess when we talk about being altruistic and looking out for the best interest of players, it's only when it suits our needs.

    It's alright if you don't send me a Christmas card or invite me to your Labor Day cookout, I can live with it. Just try to be honest about why your posting on this thread. The majority of you are upset about losing out on Wall, if it's any other kid we weren't interested in, no one would give a rats you know what.
    I don't really get where you are coming from. This is a Duke board, in the off-season. Of course people are going to talk about where a recruit Duke was high on committed. Why wouldn't we talk about this. As far as the sour grapes thing goes, i think that says more about you then the rest of us.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Wink Amaker not Calipari

    Quote Originally Posted by FireOgilvie View Post
    A ton of people had a problem with Amaker doing that. It was a really bad move, in my opinion. Especially not doing it early enough for them to transfer (although I don't know if you'd actually want to transfer out of Harvard just to sit on the bench at some other school). Amaker allowed them to play for the JV team. The Kentucky guys are actually on scholarship, which makes that situation even worse. They go from going to school for free to having to pay full tuition if they want to stay (probably out of state).
    The Amaker situation is in no ways comparable to Kentucky overstocking players on scholarship:

    1. For one, no player's academic scholarship (wink-wink) to Harvard was affected by his decisions.

    2. What Tommy did was to decide before the season started that players 14 THROUGH 19 would be assigned to the JV rather than be part of the varsity October 15 practices. These players could make the varsity via battlefield promotion. His mistake, if even that, was that this was a change from a previous announced position, which he decided was dumb (he was right). He didn't need to go through October practices with 19 players.

    3. Holy cow! Players 14 through 19 on one of the worst teams in Division I?? Where would they go? They probably couldn't make the starting lineup at most Division III schools. And why is this even a story?!?!?

    4. In contrast, the essence of the Calipari issue is that players dropped would, in fact, lose all financial aid. Although, to be fair, any player on scholarship at Kentucky can play major college basketball at a number of other schools.

    5. The Amaker issue was a non-story fed by a NY Times sports staff that had previously reported on Harvard hoops (true confession: I am a NY Times subscriber) and never should have been printed. As might be expected at Harvard (and maybe even at Duke), certain parents of the affected players were not hesitant about calling the NY Times.

    6. The prior story, having to do with changes in Harvard recruiting in hoops after Amaker arrived, charged that Harvard may have violated NCAA recruiting regulations. These charges were investigated and dropped by Harvard, the Ivy League and the NCAA. The reports also breathlessly claimed that Harvard was dropping its standards of admissions for basketball players. True, Harvard had maintained a standard for admission that was above the standards the Ivy League insisted on and was reverting to the Ivy League standard. The only real story in all of this was that Harvard, unsatisfied with its miserable record in basketball, had decided to try to win some games. I guess, Harvard having recruited Tommy Amaker, I thought that was obvious!

    sagegrouse
    Last edited by sagegrouse; 05-21-2009 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Searching for better logic

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    greater New Orleans area

    no doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    I'm really not surprised by some of the feedback my two posts on this thread have generated.

    I'm also not surprised that no one responded to my question about where they stood when Ol' Roy pushed for the rules change limiting kids time to explore their options of going pro, a change backed by Coach K.

    I guess when we talk about being altruistic and looking out for the best interest of players, it's only when it suits our needs.

    It's alright if you don't send me a Christmas card or invite me to your Labor Day cookout, I can live with it. Just try to be honest about why your posting on this thread. The majority of you are upset about losing out on Wall, if it's any other kid we weren't interested in, no one would give a rats you know what.
    to answer: you shouldn't be surprised that when you challenge the motives of others they don't come back praising your eloquence.

    2. I don't see going to the NBA as the number one objective of college basketball. Second I think a fair system gives the player a limited, but reasonable, amount of time to decide whether to stay at the school or go pro. The team needs a reasonable amount of time to replace the person leaving while the person needs a reasonable amount of to test the waters. Note I put the team first. We can argue about what is reasonable, but if you're argument is their should be no limit to the time kids take, I disagree.

    3. I echo earlier concerns about statement that indicated you equate NCAA rules to ethics.

    4. your contention that No one gives a rat ___ is wrong. I don't care about Wall. I do care about the ethics that causes way too many young people to rely on sports to get ahead instead of education. The practice described here will cost some folks their educational opportunities who will never go pro in BBall

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California

    Worldwide Wes

    For those who aren't all that familiar with Worldwide Wes and his connections, this offers a glimpse:

    http://men.style.com/gq/features/lan...d=content_5735

    Ten pages long, but it gives you an idea of what he brings to the table with regards to young impressionable high school players looking to make it big.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    if a kid has his scholarship revoked for reasons other than academics or conduct, can he transfer without the year "penalty?"


    That's a good question, but I would think not. A transfer is a transfer even if the guy is not on scholarship. If Lee Melchionni transferred when Coach K asked him to be a walk-on for a year, he still would have been considered a transfer in the eyes of the NCAA. As long as you are registered at the original school, I think you go through the same process.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hudson Valley
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    The Amaker situation is in no ways comparable to Kentucky overstocking players on scholarship:


    3. Holy cow! Players 14 through 19 on one of the worst teams in Division I?? Where would they go? They probably couldn't make the starting lineup at most Division III schools. And why is this even a story?!?!?


    5. The Amaker issue was a non-story fed by a NY Times sports staff that had previously reported on Harvard hoops (true confession: I am a NY Times subscriber) and never should have been printed. As might be expected at Harvard (and maybe even at Duke), certain parents of the affected players were not hesitant about calling the NY Times.

    sagegrouse
    Didn't you just answer your own question?

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoCrazy84 View Post
    if a kid has his scholarship revoked for reasons other than academics or conduct, can he transfer without the year "penalty?"


    That's a good question, but I would think not. A transfer is a transfer even if the guy is not on scholarship. If Lee Melchionni transferred when Coach K asked him to be a walk-on for a year, he still would have been considered a transfer in the eyes of the NCAA. As long as you are registered at the original school, I think you go through the same process.
    I agree but using Lee Melchionni is not a good example. Lee was a part of a 6 man class in a year when Duke only had 5 scholarships. He agreed to come to Duke knowing he would have to walk on and pay his own way his Freshman year and with the agreement he would be under scholarship his soph, Jr, and Sr years, which is what happened. He did not start out under scholarship and then have it taken away for a year.

  20. #80

    Melchionni

    Melchionni agreement is opposite of the Donald Williams situation at UK. He was going to walk-on at Marquette last year before UK offered him a scholarship. It was a one year offer, since UK had an extra ride with Donald knowing he would be a walk-on in year 2.

    As for the other 3(if Meeks returns)... .there was a LOT going on at UK before Gillespie was let go. There are multiple scenarios that can explain players transferring with a coaching change; incoming recruits, grades, etc..etc..etc..etc..etc...

    On the surface it definitely doesn't look good... I agree, and as a UK and college basketball fan I don't want us to "run off" any of the kids. We may never know the real reasons behind every transfer, but the situation has to play out first.

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