Why Does No One Say It?

[jimsumner]

Let me throw another name into the hopper. Oscar Robertson. Probably the most versatile player in basketball history and absolutely unstoppable one-on-one.

Only won one NBA title and that was as a junior partner to Kareem. But his best years were against the Celtics juggernaut and Cincy never had the horses to beat the Celts in a best-of-seven-series. I probably wouldn't put the Big O ahead of Wilt, MJ, or Russ but I think he belongs on the short list.

[KandG]

Felton is the best of the bunch. His numbers this year are very good and he is sought after by a number of teams going into free agency.

One you left off:
Brandan Wright

I liked Felton as a college player, but as a pro he is at best solid (in the way Chris Duhon and Steve Blake are solid) and most people who watch a lot of pro games would not classify him as "very good" nor likely to be heavily "sought after" on the free agent market -- especially with a guard-rich draft coming up and the bad economy.

Felton is a terrible shooter and a questionable decision maker -- his primary assets are his rebounding for his position as well as his steals. For someone who handles the ball as much as he does, he's not terribly efficient. A few Bobcat fans I know feel they would have made the playoffs if Larry Brown had handed the reins to Augustin sooner -- I don't agree, but Felton is no where near as enjoyable to watch as a pro as he was as a college player.

Wright has more potential, but he's trapped in that dysfunctional mess of a franchise (Golden State) -- he needs to find an environment that's more conducive to his development, the way Dun did.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Would have loved to see Brendan Wright in a Duke uniform...I am pretty sure he would have been on the court more for us than Carolina (I remember liking it when he wasn't playing) and been huge for us...I haven't followed Wright's career enough to know but he is one who seems to have huge potential...assuming there aren't personal issues, I would not give up on him being a very good NBA player.

By the way, I think the larger error Biscuit made was comparing JWill and May in any way. Seriously, Biscuit, as you said to my fellow Dukie, you are wrong. There is NO COMPARISON (even if you are using the comparison to make another point). I'm just not saying that I THINK there is no comparison. I'm saying there is NO COMPARISON. May would not be an NBA difference maker even if in better physical condition whereas ANY NBA GM would prefer a healthy JWill to your beloved Felton (who I grant you is a very talented player in his own right). I think May was a good player college player who excelled his last year in school. JWill was a difference maker from jump. Biscuit -- please tell me you don't think May and JWill, due to their circumstances, were comparable losses of talent to the world of basketball.

[heyman25]

I tend to agree with you about MJ, but there might be some elders who would say it's Bill Russell. Following Magic and Bird, and the rise of TV as a medium, MJ's flashiness, skill, smile, and timing was just about perfect for the explosion of the NBA and his role as an international icon. I think at one point his Q rating was second only to Michael Jackson. But it's impossible to compare different players from different generations. A lot of the influence that MJ had on the world has to do with timing and media, something that Bill Russell missed.

I think at some point in the not too distant future there will be a good argument that Lebron James, with his size, speed, domination, and "recency" is the best ever. And with the rise of the digital media and the internet since Jordan he may actually be more exposed than Jordan was. It will take a few championships to get to that level, but it's only a matter of time.

LeBron will be the greatest after his career is over in the NBA. Oscar Robertson had 5 straight years averaging triple doubles.He was as great as Jordan.

[devildownunder]

For the record, I hate UNC. I hope Lawson stumps his big toe again and can't play tonight, Hanstravel gets called for 5 fouls in the first 5 minutes, and Ellington shoots 0-12 from behind the arc.

That said, UNC may be the one school that can't be knocked for their NBA success and that comes down to two words - Micheal and Jordan. Hate to say it, but IMO he's the greatest player ever to play the game. It doesn't matter if UNC doesn't produce a player who averages more than 10 points per game again, they still have MJ.

And regarding Kobe, he's not on our list. If he is, Duke haters would point to Shaun Livingston as another example of the "Duke curse"...

I don't believe this is true. Not too many years ago, I heard a radio announcer say "Death, taxes and Duke in the Final Four", now the program is known for its relative lack of success in March. Perceptions can and do change. It just takes a long time and a high-profile turnaround of some sort.

Hey, maybe Hansbrough will help us out on this one.

[eddiehaskell]

LeBron will be the greatest after his career is over in the NBA. Oscar Robertson had 5 straight years averaging triple doubles.He was as great as Jordan.

But Jordan has 6 rings and Oscar has 1. LeBron is a stat sheet stuffer, but so far he's ringless. If Jordan didn't take 2 years off to play baseball (largely due to his father's murder), he'd likely have 8 rings. I'd say LeBron has the best chance of eclipsing Jordan, but I wouldn't say it's a certainty. He's only 24 so he has a lot of playing to do. He could settle into his prime and rattle off 4 or 5 straight championships. But then again, a lot of things can happen between now and then.

Jordan also won a NCAA championship and he was on a dominate USA basketball team...I think that counts for something.

[Matches]

I liked Felton as a college player, but as a pro he is at best solid (in the way Chris Duhon and Steve Blake are solid) and most people who watch a lot of pro games would not classify him as "very good" nor likely to be heavily "sought after" on the free agent market -- especially with a guard-rich draft coming up and the bad economy.

Felton is a terrible shooter and a questionable decision maker -- his primary assets are his rebounding for his position as well as his steals. For someone who handles the ball as much as he does, he's not terribly efficient. A few Bobcat fans I know feel they would have made the playoffs if Larry Brown had handed the reins to Augustin sooner -- I don't agree, but Felton is no where near as enjoyable to watch as a pro as he was as a college player.

Felton went for 32 last night - pretty impressive performance. I think Augustin is the Bobcats' PG of the future but Felton is a very important part of that team. He's not a great shooter, nor was he in college, but he is an all-around good ballplayer. I'd put him as at least Duhon's equal (D'Antoni's system tends to inflate PG numbers somewhat), and well ahead of Blake, who IMO is marginal at best.

[marinbobbyduhon]

Wright and Marvin were only at UNC for one year. For the Carolina fans that don't give Duke Corey or Luol, what do they say about those two.

Anyway, I still maintain that succeeding in the NBA has more to do with the player's talent and individual work ethic. I don't think a coaching staff can have a big effect on a player's development. If anything, I think the biggest thing a program can do is shape the player's ability to deal with being a man living alone, etc in the pro's and all that stuff but as far as player development, I think that while the top programs differ, it is not too extreme a difference.

I do think a program can have a significant effect on whether a player actually makes the NBA. What I mean by that is evidenced well by Mike Dunleavy's pro career. The guy was a bum for GS. He was woefully underperforming and just did not do well at all relative to expectations.

Well, you put Mike in Indiana and everthing changes. The different "program" did not make him a better player. It simply allowed him to showcase and utilize his talents.

That is where programs differ. Maybe JJ would have made the same improvements at other programs but who knows whether he woudl have been given the opportunity he had at Duke. And with a guy like Stephen Curry, maybe he would've made the same or even greater improvements at Duke. But would he have had the opportunity to do as well as he has at Davidson?

These are random hypotheticals but my main point is, a program is most important in its ability to let players showcase talent. Actual development of talent is more dependent upon the player's individual work ethic, and innate abilities and frankly, a lot of these guys could make as much improvements in their games busting their asses with their older siblings as they could at a top program.

I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head with that statement. I live in So. Oregon and I remember watching a game at South Medford late in the 2007 season. South Medford was trailing the Eugene team and Kyle just took over the game and South Medford ended up winning comfortably in the 4th qtr. But E.J. made a couple of nice plays during that stretch and I thought he showed potiential. But I never dreamed that he would become the 2nd Singler to win the 6A Player of the Year award. I think Oregon is going to have a very nice player on their hands.

While everyone saw Kyle's potential early on, it seems E.J. didn't become a leader until his Senior year. But most telling in his growth as a basketball player is his statement on how much it helped to have to guard Kyle in practice. Here are some quotes from an article about E.J. from OregonLive:

"E.J. Singler is now is the Class 6A boys basketball player of the year, as voted by the state's coaches. He and Kyle, the 2007 co-player of the year with Lake Oswego's Kevin Love, are the only brothers in Oregon history to achieve the distinction at the state's highest classification.

E.J. Singler has been known as a tough-minded player since he made the South Medford varsity team as a freshman, but few understood the degree to which that was true during his senior year. He underwent surgery last week to repair torn meniscus cartilage in his left knee after playing with the injury all season.

At South Medford, Singler never thought of himself in Kyle's shadow.

He was a valuable role player in 2007, when the Panthers were led to the state title by Kyle Singler and Michael Harthun.

In practices, E.J. often was assigned to guard Kyle. The workouts were intense, said South Medford coach Dennis Murphy, who added that Kyle Singler never took any mercy on his younger brother. And E.J. Singler never backed down, either.

"I learned a lot of stuff being that kind of player," E.J. Singler said. "A lot of kids haven't done that. I moved up by my senior year and knew I had to be the man and lead the team." E.J. Singler, at 6-foot-6, is about two inches shorter than Kyle Singler. But the way they look -- their shot, the way they move, their rebounding instincts -- echo each other.

"They're very similar," Murphy said. "I would tell you, as I told (their father) Ed Singler in the fall, I think E.J. is actually a better shooter than Kyle."