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Thread: ACC next year

  1. #1
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    ACC next year

    The N&O had an article yesterday about the ACC next year. It seemed like a pretty good take with likely early departures factored in. They have Duke, UNC , and Clemson in the top three. It looks like the ACC will be weaker next year than tihs it was this year. YOUCH! Also I'm not sure why Giglio has Teague, Johnson, and Aminu leaving early. Is there something to this or is just pure speculation? If so, then Gaudio is looking at a short tenure in WS.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by whereinthehellami View Post
    The N&O had an article yesterday about the ACC next year. It seemed like a pretty good take with likely early departures factored in. They have Duke, UNC , and Clemson in the top three. It looks like the ACC will be weaker next year than tihs it was this year. YOUCH! Also I'm not sure why Giglio has Teague, Johnson, and Aminu leaving early. Is there something to this or is just pure speculation? If so, then Gaudio is looking at a short tenure in WS.
    Thanks for the link. If his scenario takes place, we'll certainly be the favorite for the ACC, but, as you mentioned, the league looks comically weak.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by whereinthehellami View Post
    The N&O had an article yesterday about the ACC next year. It seemed like a pretty good take with likely early departures factored in. They have Duke, UNC , and Clemson in the top three. It looks like the ACC will be weaker next year than tihs it was this year. YOUCH! Also I'm not sure why Giglio has Teague, Johnson, and Aminu leaving early. Is there something to this or is just pure speculation? If so, then Gaudio is looking at a short tenure in WS.
    I don't agree with Giglio's assessment that Singler would shine as a college "3". I think he's perfectly suited to play the "4" spot in college. At that spot, he can drag bigger players out on the perimeter while his lack of quickness won't be an issue. The problem has been that he's frequently been stuck as the only post presence. That will certainly change next year. If he moves to the 3, he's going to face a lot of guys who are quicker than him. And he's not really a post-up guy, so he's not likely to exploit the advantage the other way.

    I do agree with the assessment though. If Henderson returns, we're the hands-down favorites to win the ACC. Without him, we're in the running depending on the improvements of Smith and Williams and the acquisition of another guard.

    And yes, the ACC will be down next year, especially if Henderson, Ellington, and Vazquez leave early.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Is Lawson A Junior or Senior ?

    If he is a junior, why are people so sure that he will leave. I have read that Ed Davis is the next really big star at UNC and that they have an excellent class coming , so why wouldn't Lawson at least consider staying on?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    If he is a junior, why are people so sure that he will leave. I have read that Ed Davis is the next really big star at UNC and that they have an excellent class coming , so why wouldn't Lawson at least consider staying on?
    Lawson is only a junior, but I don't think that makes much difference. I think Lawson wanted to be gone LAST year. Even UNC fans are pretty sure Lawson is leaving.

  6. #6
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    Aug 2007
    If G doesn't return, our only black players on the current roster for next year would be Nolan, EWill, and Lance. Sad. We need Nate and Chris and maybe some Team USA players to help us attract more African American players. I know we have tried but we look like a preppy elite school.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    If G doesn't return, our only black players on the current roster for next year would be Nolan, EWill, and Lance. Sad. We need Nate and Chris and maybe some Team USA players to help us attract more African American players. I know we have tried but we look like a preppy elite school.
    We can still be a good team with this roster, but until we can recruit/develop something in the post, I don't see us advancing much further in the tournament. Hopefully, K can mold the new Plumlee into an inside presence next year.

    Also, Scheyer did what was asked of him at point this year and it made a difference, but what other great teams do you see with conservative point guards with less than great quickness. I think Nolan has to play the point next year.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    If G doesn't return, our only black players on the current roster for next year would be Nolan, EWill, and Lance. Sad. We need Nate and Chris and maybe some Team USA players to help us attract more African American players. I know we have tried but we look like a preppy elite school.
    This is an argument that I have heard the Duke haters pull out a lot more lately, to the point of calling Coach K racist and referring to recruiting white players as the "Coach K recruiting strategy." Frankly, its bogus. Both Plumlee and Kelly are top 10 (12?) recruits, its not like we are sacrificing talent to go on some racial purge.

    But to your point, I agree, it cannot make Duke look great to future recruits. The best response I would have would be to look at the commits for 2010. Thornton, Dawkins, Hairston, and Harrison Barnes expected to be added (please God). Not only will it shift this dynamic, but also give us a really athletic squad.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    If G doesn't return, our only black players on the current roster for next year would be Nolan, EWill, and Lance. Sad. We need Nate and Chris and maybe some Team USA players to help us attract more African American players. I know we have tried but we look like a preppy elite school.
    Parish the thought that the sons of white male privilege will be loosed among our basketball team.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    If G doesn't return, our only black players on the current roster for next year would be Nolan, EWill, and Lance. Sad. We need Nate and Chris and maybe some Team USA players to help us attract more African American players. I know we have tried but we look like a preppy elite school.
    It's not the Team USA's responsibility to recruit anyone to Duke. The coaching staff receives an ample salary.

    I don't care what the race is of the players who wear the Duke jersey, but, since you are concerned, the projected class of 2010 happens to be completely African-American.

  11. #11
    I think it's a foregone conclusion that Lawson leaves. He seriously tested the waters last year, but he was hurt much of the season then got himself in a little hot water being pulled over after a drink or two, so he stuck around.

    Very surprised they have all three of the Wake guys going. I've heard a lot of speculation about Aminu and he's a likely lottery pick, but the way Teague kinda fell of the earth at the end of the season I'd be inclined to guess he'll be back. Johnson is good but draft projections have him late first round, so I'm not so sure. Maybe they'll just test the water and then come back.

    Once reality sets in to Vasquez and he sees he's not a first rounder he'll be back.

    I agree that Singler's far-and-away the early favorite for ACC POY in 2010 (assuming G leaves). If they go with that lineup and he gets aggressive he should definitely average 20ppg and be a problem for anyone trying match up with him.

    Ed Davis at UNC will give him a big run for it if he comes back, though. The way he's been playing, as the focal point of their offense next year with Hansbrough and Lawson gone next year, he could be a 20ppg, 12-14 rpg, 3-5 blocks/game kind of guy with some weight.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Cary, NC

    team demographics

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    If G doesn't return, our only black players on the current roster for next year would be Nolan, EWill, and Lance.

    Interesting observation. Race is an issue that Duke's detractors like to harp on and Duke's fans like to ignore. However the black players on our team also tend to come from privileged backgrounds. Chris Carrawell was a notable exception that comes to mind. These middle- to upper-class kids from prep schools are the type of guys that Coach K recruits, and who fit in the best at our school, and I think we'll just have to accept that. Not to say that we can't recruit black players, or athletic players, or whatever, but the perception of Duke as being elitest does have some grounds for truth IMO.

  13. #13
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    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC

    Race

    I don't care what color our players are. Just as long as they can play defense, rebound, dribble and shoot. I guess that African-American players do have those qualities. I'm sure Coach K would like to sign as many of the 5 star players that fit his man-to-man defense and motion offense as he can. However their is this little thing called academics and the part about remaining eligible to play that keeps him from signing more 5 star players. The recruiting class for 2010 looks great. What has gotten Duke behind is the 2005 class. It looks like it will be 5 years for us to recover. The future is bright. Don't jump ship. Go Duke!

  14. #14
    I think it's a little silly to make projections without knowing who's going pro. It's possible, for example, that the Wake trio do what UNC's did last year and come back, in which case Wake would be a national top 5 team.

    I don't think the league looks weak at all next year. UNC looks weaker (hallelujah) but Georgia Tech will be significantly stronger. If you go back to September and look at this year's ACC, a lot of people thought Florida State, Maryland, and BC would suck and that Wake Forest would be a middle-of-the-pack ACC team and borderline NCAA tournament team. The feeling was the league had one great team and one good team and that Clemson and Miami would probably make us a four-bid league, five if Wake could overcome its youth.

    Obviously that was all wrong. I think those talking about the league's weakness next year are also wrong. Clemson will be very strong. Georgia Tech could be really good if Favors is the real deal. Assuming Alabi and Gibson do the freshman-to-sophomore improvement thing, Florida State will be good again as well -- someone will step up and score in Douglass's absence. UNC will be annoyingly better than the experts think they will. Wake will surprise people, even if their big three don't return. And it's never wise to completely dismiss Maryland, BC, or Virginia Tech. I see the league being just as strong as it was this year.

    Only time will tell who's right.

  15. #15
    Incidentally, even if G leaves I think Duke is going to be a very interesting team if one or both of the incoming freshmen are capable of providing productive minutes.

    A small lineup of Singler, Thomas, Smith, Williams, and Scheyer will be fast and high-scoring, hard for a lot of teams to match up with. A big lineup of Singler, Williams, Scheyer, and (pick two of) Zoubek, Plumlee I, Plumlee II, Kelly, and (we can dream, right?) Czyz will be one of the tallest lineups in the country and very difficult for many teams to guard.

    If G returns or if we land one of our point guard recruits, we'll be even better (obviously). If none of the big men are capable of contributing, we'll be very thin (or shallow or whatever the opposite of deep is), but still reasonably good.

    Personally, I can't wait.

  16. #16
    Presuming G leaves, a lineup of Singler, EW, Nolan and Scheyer would leave a walk-on the only guard\wing on the bench. I don't think so. One of the above doesn't start and 2 of LT, Z, Plumleys, Kelly, Olek start. The bigs will be expected to contribute offensively.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwell1977 View Post
    Presuming G leaves, a lineup of Singler, EW, Nolan and Scheyer would leave a walk-on the only guard\wing on the bench. I don't think so. One of the above doesn't start and 2 of LT, Z, Plumleys, Kelly, Olek start. The bigs will be expected to contribute offensively.
    If Henderson goes pro, we're going to need to land a guard who can at least give us a credible 10-15 minutes per game at guard. I don't see us going big all season, as I don't think Singler or Thomas are a good fit at the "3" spot in college. I think Singler is an NBA "3", but that means he's more of a college "4" due to the typical matchups.

    I can see us going 5-10 minutes per game with the big lineup, but I don't see that being a good approach. But who knows? Maybe we will try going big. Maybe Singler will surprise me and be really comfortable at the college "3", allowing us to rotate 4-5 of our bigs and actually impose size on our opponents for once.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Lots of IFs

    IF Gerald stays.

    IF (absolutely everyone) Improves (noticably)

    IF one of the recruits can contribute right away

    IF we get another guard this year.

    IF the 2010 class is great.

    Well, I have heard all that for three years running now, and much of it from the same folks. Well that song is getting old. Change the bloody tune already.

    G might leave. We might not get another recruit. Many of our returning players may be near their ceiling as players. Neither of our recruits might be impact players. There is no guarantee, or even a solid probability, that Duke will land another guard this year. The 2010 class, which every one has sort of underlined as a return to greatness, currently consists of an athletic wg (yay), and a tweener forward (sort of yay), and a solid combo G (fingers crossed on his ability).

    Harrison Barnes, Kyrie Irving, and a player to be named later are not part of the class as yet. Now, I may be imagining this memory, but I seem to remember counting on Greg Monroe and then Kenny Boynton to be the next Duke saviors. The very people counting on 2010's class were the ones who considered us to be locks for those young men. I'll believe the 2010 class will save us after they are signed, AND after they have looked dominant in HS or on the AAU circuit.

    As for next year's ACC, I am not so optimistic as some of you.

    Clemson, who knows? Booker tore us a new one, and his clone, aka younger bro, suits up next year along with a combo forward who may be a stud. Funnsies. But the Tigers will be good. Very good. Unless they lose their coach. Then, who knows?

    GT gets better if every one returns. They had a good PF this year. IF he returns, along with good recruits, they could shock people next year.

    FSU had some good frosh, but they loose A LOT. Douglass hurts. Echefu may hurt worse. Versatile PFs willing to bang are not exactly commonplace. Snaer could replace SOME of Douglass, but they have some other young talent in place.

    UVA, still a wasteland. Bottom of conf.

    MD could be solid. With or without Greivous. Lance Stephenson, a Tyreke Evans clone, is seriously considering UMD. With him, and some solid F's comming in next year, UMD gets real dangerous. Without Lance and with GV, still dangerous.

    VT just took a HUGE hit. Momo Jones, a stud Guard from Oak Hill just decommitted from them. With him, they are solid, but probably worse after losses this year. With him, dangerous. Without Jones, bottom half, maybe bottom fourth, of Conf. But I keep saying that, and they keep shocking me.

    NCSU. Wasteland. Bottom two in league.

    Miami. Better than people think. Decent recruits in place, some young talent. Probably NIT again.

    WFU. Huge question mark. Better, worse, who knows? They have some solid recruits comming in. I live in W-S and their are whispers that Teague is not good for the team. Losing him, and either Aminu or Johnson (not both), wouldn't be horrible for the team. Enough talent already in place, and some good recruits (solid PG and dangerous WG/WF en route) to be good. Really good. Even losing one of their F's, WFU still has a HUGE, talented Front court.

    And now,

    UNC. Our Bette Noire. Huge losses off this year's team. Lawson and Ellington are Done. Lawson is one of the top two PGs in the nation. Ellington has improved more over the last month than anyone else in the country. Not a superstar. But, he is middle of the draft now or next year, so why not start the career clock early? Barring early entry by Davis or Thompson (if they play well in a NC victory, it COULD happen):

    UNC won't step back as much as WE hope. Their front court will include John Henson, Ed Davis, Deon Thompson, and Tyler Zellar. Any one of those four likely start at Duke next year alongside Singler. Add Thompson or Davis to next year's Duke team, and Duke is a monster squad. That UNC front line could be the best in the Nation. And Henson can play some 3 in a pinch. Yikes. Yes, their guard rotation is iffy. Iffy-ish. Drew doesn't scare me, but he is capable. They have two guards comming in who are capable. Very capable. Strickland looks like a starting SG, with the Memphis kid as a capable backup. And Ginyard. A hard nosed, defensive minded, do-it-all (ok) SENIOR. A la Nate James or Chris Carawell.

    UNC might have some rough starts, but they could look very good come March.

    Duke. Ah, Duke. Going on what we definitely have, or might lose, We look good. That's the rub, but I'll get there eventually. With G, we have a solid rotation. Our guard rotation is good, but we need all four to improve on their weaknesses.

    E-will has to get better from the FT line, and become someone who can't be left alone on the perimeter. If he can't knock down some threes, teams will lay off him to restrict his driving lanes.

    Nolan has to be more consistent. We need a passer at the PG slot. If we get a season of the kid we saw since his injury, only moreso, hooray.

    G. Go left young man, go left.

    JS. Hoo boy. Rough game last night. No one else was moving, so it wasn't all him. Can't pass to statues. That said, there has been a huge flaw in his PG play from Day 1 of THE SWITCH. He was always highly, highly, risk averse. Yes, he had very few turnovers. He also had fewer assists, which was noted and dismissed on this board. The reason he had so few turnovers was that he only made safe passes. This sounds good, but B-Ball is a risk reward game. You have to feed the post and thread needles on passes. You have to pass the ball down the court to a streeker, not wait for the teams to go down the court. JS did a good job at the PG, but he was a caretaker of the ball, not an initiator or an attacker. He isn't quick enough for that.

    Without G, we will be OK. Depth is the real problem.

    As for our front court, it is still iffy. Kyle is great, but with a pass first, penetrating PG, he would be special. Lance and Zoubs are what they are. Plum needs to improve, big time.

    As for the recruits, I am not as jazzed as some others. They are fine players, to be sure, but I just don't see them as instant upgrades over current players.

    Plumlee the younger admits his bro is a better athlete. He is 6-10, light, and plays against God-Awful Comp in Western North Carolina. It was a rare night in HS where he played against another team with a college bound player (athletic or otherwise). Yes, they won the state. But it was small time HS hoops. The ACC is a huge step up. Tons of upside there. But is he an impact player next year? I don't know, but I wouldn't bet on it. I wouldn't bet against it. But if I had to bet one way or the other, probably go against.

    As for Ryan Kelly, he seems like a poor man's Kyle Singler. I like Jr Kyle over Frosh Kelly, by a lot. None of these guys is a savior.

    The 2009-2010 ACC might be as good, or maybe only a little worse, than this past year. Guess what. The ACC wasn't that good this year. Most of our teams ended the year in EMBARRASING fashion. The other ACC teams lost to mediocre teams in the first weekend, and did so badly. UMD got blown out by a team whose collapse would be news but for Duke's "game." Saying the ACC might be as good next year as last year is not a good thing. The league is foot slow. I used to think it was just Duke, but every team is slow.

    And worst of all, Duke will continue to get every team's best shot. The only trouble is, Duke doesn't really warrant that best shot anymore. The rest of the ACC is playing all out against the 1999 or 2001 Blue Devils. But those teams are light years beyond what we now have.

    From the last year's team, only 1 guy starts on the 2001 team. Jr Gerald probably starts over frosh CDu or Sr James (at the end of the year). Kyle gets some spot minutes, unless you want to sit Sr Battier or fellow Soph Mike Dunleavy for extended periods. Jon gets some mop up minutes. Not a single other player on this year's team would have gotten on the court in 2001 for any meaningful minutes.

    The 2001 team would maul 2009 Duke. And the 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, and 2002 teams were within a close statistical variation of one another. Some were better, some worse, but not by much. 2000 was a young team. That team might have won the ACC regular season last year, and definitely would have taken one off UNC. Lawson vs J-Will? Beat Down.

    Yet, Duke gets an effort worthy of those past teams. Teams always talk about playing the name of the back vs the front of the Jersey. Well, they are lying. They are playing the name on the front of the jersey, only the name on the back isn't as good as it used to be.

    Only now, the rest of the ACC smells blood. Only UVA and NCSU are sure wins next year. Every other team can take us. And there is no sure fire help on the horizon. 2010 is not set, at all. We have three players. Only one looks like a game changer from Day 1. Barnes or another player might not happen.

    Hate me, ban me, whatever. This needed to be said. Rome wasn't built in a day, and we have a similiar (re)building project ahead of us.

  19. #19
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    @Diddy - Ban you? I thought you had alot of good points. The ACC is hurting bad. Only UNC is lock to be in the Top10 for the forseeable future. Duke has some talent but alot of holes and question marks? If Henderson goes, Duke is going to struggle all year against any team with athletes. The rest of the ACC just looks like NIT at best. Clemson does what it can but lacks some serious talent and skill.

    As far as the future goes, I agree about next year's recruits. They are going to struggle with strength and adjusting to the speed of the ACC. The dreaded toughness tag will be the buzzword again. I've seen Josh Hairston play a couple of times this year and you can put him in line with those guys. The league he plays in is terrible. There will be an adjustment period for him in his first year.

    I don't get why everyone thinks Duke is coming back in the sense of the being the power they were. Its hard to sustain that level of excellence. What if this is as good as it gets? Duke still puts a good product on the floor and is a threat to win the ACC and maybe get to the sweet 16. Is that enough for people? I'm OK with that. I just don't like the overblown expectations and entitlement that some show when saying that Duke will get back to the top.

  20. #20

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    If G doesn't return, our only black players on the current roster for next year would be Nolan, EWill, and Lance. Sad. We need Nate and Chris and maybe some Team USA players to help us attract more African American players. I know we have tried but we look like a preppy elite school.
    wow....

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