Duke Recruiting Misses

[BlueintheFace]

Before some of you start the now annual, "Duke needs a big man" threads I just wanted to make sure that all of you are aware of what K said last night at the post-game press conference.

Bob Ryan: Does this in any way make you more eager to find a post player who can really score?

Coach K: And a point. Yeah. It's not like we haven't tried to find them. A couple of them have gone to other schools right at the last second, but yeah. We were like a three headed monster on offense and it carried us a long way but they played a lot of five against three tonight and their good. You got someone in mind? No? Alright, you're not that helpful (says smiling).

http://all-access.cbssports.com/play...a&media=111158
(@26 minute mark)

K has certainly tried to bring in big-time post players and ball handlers, but he has just missed on 2 or three (Patterson, Monroe, Boynton, etc...). It is not as though K is unaware of the deficiencies of the roster or that he has somehow decide to become an all-around jump-shooting team. Sometimes you just miss on recruits and it effects results down the line. That has been the case for us the last few years. K has acknowledged as much and I believe it is important for a lot of us on the board to remember this.

[weezie]

Yeah, I doubt there is anything that escapes Coach K. His demeanor last night was telling. No real screaming and hollering, some minor griping at Hess but K is a realist above all.

I imagine he'll be on a plane Monday morning for some more wooing.

[gotham devil]

Yeah, I doubt there is anything that escapes Coach K. His demeanor last night was telling. No real screaming and hollering, some minor griping at Hess but K is a realist above all.

I imagine he'll be on a plane Monday morning for some more wooing.

Definitely, while I'm sure some might criticize his loyalty to Paulus and Wojo, he is a realist. His willingness to shake up his staff in the mid-90s proved instrumental to our positive change in the late 90s and early part of this decade. Perhaps, one or both associate head coaches will, um, move on to head coaching postions.

He's got to do a brutally honest self-examination.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...yhoo&type=lgns

[whereinthehellami]

I was just listening to the "Locker Room" sports radio show in the DC area and they were really giving it to Duke. Kevin Sheehan had picked Duke to win and was getting hammered pretty good. This led to a discussion about what is wrong with Duke and it of course led to Duke's recruiting. Not that they know what they are talking about or anything but the perception is definately out there by most of the DC area that Duke can't recruit athletes anymore in todays one and done climate.

I didn't realize that Duke had the worst shooting game in the history of the tourney. I think they also said that was the worst loss in the sweet 16. Ouch.

[Classof06]

That Wetzel article hit the nail on the head. I was watching Krzyzewski during the 2nd half as the game got out of control and it was clear that he knew what was going on. He wasn't surprised in the least. Like I said, as soon as Duke started the game 1/8 or 2/9 from 3, I knew we were in grave danger.

I remember watching the game last night and the camera did a quick scan of the faces on our bench. Sitting there were McClure, Paulus, Pocious, Zoubek and the rest of the kids, and I remember thinking to myself "none of these players would even make the roster on that 2001 national championship team". This is not to denigrate those players because they're all busting their behinds trying to become the best they can be. But Duke fans have to stop fighting reality; we're not what we used to be. 10 years ago, we had teams where Nate James and Corey Maggette weren't even starters; Maggette would undoubtedly be the best player on this year's team and you could make a strong argument for James as well.

I'm both surprised and refreshed that Krzyzewski admitted the personnel deficiencies in the press conference last night. Surprised because he usually likes to talk about those things in-house and refreshed because it's to the point where he couldn't possibly deny it any longer.

The one thing I will say about Krzyzewski is that, like he himself said, you can't say he hasn't tried to recruit the players necessary to uphold Duke's storied tradition.

And that may be the scariest thing of all.

[NYDukie]

To put a positive spin on things, just wait until we get the usual recruiting haul back in play which Coach K wants similar to what he had in 2001 and during the period 1998 through 2004. JJ and Sheldon and Co. were the last great recruiting haul but that class lacked some of the athletic diversity the previous others had. With the 2010 haul on the horizon, which hopefully includes Barnes, with an outside shot at Josh Smith added to Nolon, Elliot, Mason, Kelly ajnd possibly Kyle, the needed roster diversity will be there. We as fans, just need to be patient. I for one was just as frustrated as any of you were watching last nights game but after taking a step back, I think things will swing back our way. Just think of what Coach K and the staff have done with the past couple of teams given their limitations and translate that to what the staff will be able to do with that future roster.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

The one thing I will say about Krzyzewski is that, like he himself said, you can't say he hasn't tried to recruit the players necessary to uphold Duke's storied tradition.

And that may be the scariest thing of all.

I think you can say that about low-post players, and I agree that missing on so many successive guys even with major minutes available for a team like Duke (ESPN every game, history of producing NBA post players, etc) is really scary.

I don't think you can say the same thing about PG's. It was apparent by early in his soph season that Dockery just wasn't going to be a pass-first PG. Since then, we've gone after Livingstone, who was 1 year at best, and Paulus. Those were 2 highly-rated guys, but in a period of 7 years that's just silly. Even if Leavingsoon had been the bridge to Paulus that some folks were dreaming of, that's 4 seasons of Greg with no back-up in case of illness, injury, or going NBA early (and if you bought his HS ranking as legit then that had to be a possibility). In those seven years Scout lists us as pursuing only one other PG: 1-star PG Justin Robinson.

I obviously have no inside info so maybe the staff pursued guys in private that we don't know about. Maybe the plan really was to dragoon SG's like Ewing, Nolan, and Jon into a position they weren't prepared for. I have no idea. And I'm not sure if seeing the problem but failing to fix it (with 5's) or not even seeing the problem is worse, but that combination has left us with amazing wings despondent on the bench every time we play a top 4 seed. Until we start addressing these problems (and unless Wall surprises a whole lot of people it won't be until 2010 or 2011) there's simply a ceiling on what we can be as a team.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Not that anyone is crying for us...but it's hard to do things right and get everyone you want. I love the kids we are bringing in the next two years and the kids we have returning. AND I LOVE that we do things the right way. While nobody is perfect, our players are tremendous on the court, graduate, and conduct themselves well off the court (win or lose).

P.S. The guys on D.C. sports radio are mostly Maryland homers and always seem to forget things like our 30 wins including a 7-0 record against the local squads (3-0 Maryland, 2-0 VATECH, 1-0 G-Town, 1-0 UVA). I think they may wish their beloved Terps had our problems.

[Devilsfan]

I like the year after next kids, too. It's hard to recruit when your focus is split between college and Team USA's quest for gold. Our entire staff was involved in one aspect or another. Now everyone can get back to focusing on their day jobs.

[Devilsfan]

I wish whoever selects the McDonalds AA team would stop picking players because they signed with Duke. Next years recruits while they might be and probably are very good went to small private schools and are not from inner city Brooklyn or Detroit where they need to be metally and physically tough. Maybe there should be an AA team for Ivy, Duke, and Stanford bound players.

[JonnyWonder]

I'm just going to throw this out there because I'm curious of others' opinions:

Do you think there is a certain stigma that Duke has when recruiting big guys?

I've always thought using Wojo as a big man coach is strange, and to be honest, we've had more than a few big men go through not really developing that much. Shelden was always good, and Boozer obviously has loads of talent - and really got even better after being in the NBA. Maybe I'm missing something, but I've never felt we can develop big men like we develop guards or wing players.

I mean, you are a big hs recruit - do you go to Duke, where you get coached by a former PG who comes up to your chest...and you most likely will get only garbage time your entire first year? Or do you go to G-town where Patrick Ewing will work with you, or another program that successfully cultivates big men and you might actually get into the rotation from your first season?

I know Duke's style of offense is never going to be dumping into the post and scoring, but we used both Boozer's offense and Shelden's shot blocking to great effect back in the day.

I won't even start on our desperate need of a real penetrate and pass PG, because that could be a whole other post. But I am not that confident in us landing a game-changing big man - and I don't exactly see the incentive for one to come to Duke. We barely saw Plumlee or Czyz this year - are they really that bad?

[GoingFor#5]

Jonny,

I recall Shelden making significant improvements. For his first 2 years, I remember being constantly frustrated that he would jump into guys to go for blocks instead of jumping straight up, but he fixed that problem with some coaching. Also, he really improved on the offensive end. It probably would help if he was starring in the NBA, though.

[should_be_working]

Regarding Olek Czyz, and I mean this in no disrespectful manner, but with the number of bigger guys coming in over the next couple of years, would it serve him best, in regards of playing time, to transfer ala Taylor King. Again, this is nothing against the kid, but if he's looking for playing time here at Duke, I just don't see much of it going to him in the next three years. Thoughts?

[novablue4]

I wish whoever selects the McDonalds AA team would stop picking players because they signed with Duke. Next years recruits while they might be and probably are very good went to small private schools and are not from inner city Brooklyn or Detroit where they need to be metally and physically tough. Maybe there should be an AA team for Ivy, Duke, and Stanford bound players.

I wonder the same thing, is Ryan Kelly really an greasy mac player? What if he had signed with Appy State or Northeastern? Aaric Murray signed with LaSalle and I wonder who the better player really truly is. I am hopeing it is Ryan. At least he came, bless him

[LaettnerWannabe]

Does anyone remember Carolina's big men dry spell earlier in this decade? They missed out on quite a few prospects before Sean May came on board. Now it seems like they sign a couple of them every month. I hope that, like Carolina, all it will take is one top big man to commit and reverse the trend. Coach K knows what is needed, but I think there's just been some bad luck lately.

[Diddy]

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=9&c=8&cfg=bb&yr=2010

Above is a list for Duke's 2010 class. As it stands, it is good. Not great. Dawkins looks like a stud. An athletic, skilled, shooter. Great.

Hairston is iffy. If he is highly skilled, or better yet, very athletic, he can help. But it seems like his game is very similiar to Singler or Kelly. If one or both is still here, where does he play? Heck, the two plums could be manning the post, with Nolan, E-Will and Dawk on the perimeter. I don't see savior written all over him. I like his upside, but he isn't an impact player right now.
Also, he plays against real weak comp. In the state title game, the other team's tallest opponent was 6-4 or something.

As for Thornton, he looks solid, but I see Dockery written all over him right now. A good, not great, athlete who may be a score first guard. A less athletic Nolan Smith.

Hairston looks like a stud, granted. But he isn't committed. I have heard that Duke is in good shape, but that he wants to take visits. Anything can happen in recruiting. When he committs, I will breath much easier.

Same with Kyrie Irving. Although, I feel Bledsoe might preclude Irving, but I am OK with that.

As for Josh Smith and Brandon Knight, move on. They aren't comming. We might not even make their top 5, barring massive coaching changes (Billy D to UK).

The 2010 class isn't fully committed yet, and big holes still exist. We have counted on players before that have yet to materialize. When talking about 2010, only talk about the players we definitely have. Not the ones we hope or think we have.

As an aside, when talking about misses, the entire 2005 class was a miss. A bust class like that has destroyed lesser programs than Duke.

[Ian]

I don't think player's get on the McDonald's list for signing with Duke.

I do think the McDonald's list has a lot of politics and thus is often not the 24 best HS players in the country.

There is a tendency to spread out the list between the geographical regions, . There is probably also a tendency for diversity sakes put in players who different economic background (inner city prep school) and sometime maybe even an extra incentive to put some white players on there who probably don't deserved it. (Neil Fingleton comes to mind).

So while as a whole the McDonalds AAs are very good, being named one doesn't necessarily mean anything about a particular player.

[JonnyWonder]

GoingFor#4 - Thanks for the perspective. Sometimes memory is such that you always think a player was as good as his best games. With that said, Shelden came to Duke as "The Landlord" for a reason - he was already a tremendous shotblocking talent. I don't mean to say Wojo or the coaching staff never facilitated any improvement (and apologize to them if my original post came off like that), but rather maybe our bigs could improve even more/prospects would be more attracted to Duke if we had a bigs coach who had actually played the 5.

[Duvall]

maybe our bigs could improve even more/prospects would be more attracted to Duke if we had a bigs coach who had actually played the 5.

That's an interesting idea. Could you perhaps elaborate on that?

[BD80]

Regarding Olek Czyz, ... would it serve him best, in regards of playing time, to transfer ala Taylor King. ... Thoughts?

My thoughts are that we shouldn't raise the issue of current players transfering. It is divisive and not productive.

Do we need the scholarship? No. Coach K isn't wasting his time with this kid; there is a good reason he is on the team, he has the level of athleticism we have all been crying for.

Transfer speculation doesn't belong on this board, it certainly shouldn't start on this board.

[Note to moderators, has this been toned down enough?]

[Could I get away with a bit more next time?]