JWill on the Herd

[bbar7502]

Just heard Jason Williams on the Herd radio show. Cowherd asked him about Duke being primarily a perimeter team and why doesn't Duke attract more big men. Jason said that Duke has always been more of a guard oriented team with the exception of some notable big men like Boozer when they won the championship in '01. The interesting thing that he said was that he had talked to Greg Monroe which Duke missed out on, and Monore basically said that he loved Duke but the one negative was that Wojo was the big man coach and he didn't see how he could learn from him since he was a guard all his life. He was also talking about how he was questioning if he should go to the game Thursday since the two tournament games he went to (VCU, West Virginia) were both losses. I thought the Monroe comment was interesting, since it has been discussed on here before. Any thoughts? Also stay home on thursday Jason! GO DUKE

[Oriole Way]

I was going to make a post about JWill's comments about Monroe and Wojo.

I have always thought Wojo hasn't really fit as a big man coach. Aside from the fact he has no experience - and yes, I know that we have had prior big men coaches who were also guards - I think having a recruit like Monroe spurn us because of Wojo makes having Wojo as big man coach a liability. I wouldn't be surprised if other big men Duke has lost out on also took that into consideration.

I think it would be better to make Nate James the big man coach. I don't see what makes him any less qualified than Wojo. He actually played in the post a little, so he has more experience actually playing in the post. He also embraces the role of teacher/mentor, as he seems to have done a fine job taking Elliot Williams under his wing.

I think if we had a more qualified big man coach, Brian Zoubek and Lance Thomas would be better than they are now. That is obviously just speculation on my part, but I have very little confidence in Wojo. Our few successful big men, like Boozer and Shelden Williams, would have been great with or without him.

[Rudy]

I think if we had a more qualified big man coach, Brian Zoubek and Lance Thomas would be better than they are now. That is obviously just speculation on my part, but I have very little confidence in Wojo. Our few successful big men, like Boozer and Shelden Williams, would have been great with or without him.

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me. One could just as easily say Z and LT haven't progressed as much as you like simply because that's the level their talent takes them. Either Wojo is effective or he's not as a teacher.

The Monroe problem is a perception problem of h.s. big men recruits. It has nothing to do with Wojo's talents as a teacher but it apparently is real and may be good enough reason to shuffle assignments among the assistants (in the off-season).

[BlueintheFace]

here we go again... can't we just shut this ride down until after the season. (sigh... shaking head back and forth)

[pfrduke]

Just out of curiosity, how many schools have dedicated big man's coaches, and how many of them are actually former post players?

[SMO]

here we go again... can't we just shut this ride down until after the season. (sigh... shaking head back and forth)

I think the real problem is Wojo is coaching too many minutes

[KenTankerous]

So when was the poll here on DBR that elected Wojo to be the big man coach?

Or was he given the job by someone that learned basketball at the feet of a master, been coaching at an elite level for decades, has three national championships and an Olympic championship under his belt?

hmmm...

[Exiled_Devil]

So when was the poll here on DBR that elected Wojo to be the big man coach?

Or was he given the job by someone that learned basketball at the feet of a master, been coaching at an elite level for decades, has three national championships and an Olympic championship under his belt?

hmmm...

I typically stay out of the Wojo bigman arguments, but I have to point out that the validity of your argument here (a classic, by the way) is undermined by a recruit stating that his lack of trust in Wojo's ability to develop him was a determining factor in not coming to Duke.

Sure, Coach K appointed Wojo to the job. But if Monroe's comment is reflective of a more widespread concern among recruits, than this is a new piece of data in the argument that should get considered by the powers-that-be. (By which, of course, I mean posters on teh internets.)

[NSDukeFan]

I think the real problem is Wojo is coaching too many minutes

Great line.
And coach K should only coach point guards because that's what he played? I don't believe he was ever a 6'6" unbelievable athlete, but still managed to coach Kobe ok in the olympics. You don't have to have even played basketball to be a great coach. It may be an impression of a high school kid, but doesn't have a basis in reality.

[Stray Gator]

If Monroe was just stating his personal impression, then I would discount it accordingly. If he was stating an opinion based on discussions with former Duke players who were actually coached by Wojo--which I seriously doubt--then I might be more inclined to find it a cause for concern.

[dball]

Just out of curiosity, how many schools have dedicated big man's coaches, and how many of them are actually former post players?

Georgetown assistants Kenya Hunter and David Cox were both point guards. I suppose Thompson III may be coaching the big men but he's only 6'4'' though he did play forward in college.

I suspect Georgetown having recently visited the Final Four and history of talented big men had more influence on Monroe's decision than Wojo.

Also, as has been mentioned many times previously, Pete Newell is generally recognized as the best big man coach of all time and he was short. If I'm not mistaken, Wojo attended his camp a time or two since Newell was highly regarded by both Coach Knight and Coach K.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I've rejected this argument as ludicrous for years, but if Monroe's perception is common, or even shared by a sizable minority of HS players and coaches, then it's a major problem. No two ways around that. It would certainly answer the question we've all had for 5-6 seasons: why one of the premiere programs in the nation can't land a top-tier 5 despite there being huge minutes available and no legit competition at that spot.

I'm certain Wojo is a great coach and we all saw that Shel made tremendous strides in his time here. Z has had injuries and Lance is playing out of position, so I still think there's a strong case that Wojo can do the job. But if that perception exists (no matter what the reality is) then it needs to be addressed. Whether we do that by shuffling assignments, by launching a PR campaign for Wojo, or whatever we need to do something before we lose yet another class (2003-09 and counting).

[Boston Dukie]

I am sure I have posted on this before many times

It doesn't matter if wojo is the best or worst big man coach in the world, perception is what matters

It is a huge perception hill to climb to start with Wojo as the big man coach:

- He was a PG
- He is tiny
- He is white and urban
- He is hated by everyone who is not a Duke fan. Btw, this I think is the biggest strike against him. He is commonly in a very negative light

People like to spend time with people who are like them. Wojo is not like any of the big men

Some may dismiss this and say "well its just Greg Monroe, we don't know how other big men feel/felt". Well the answer to that is it only takes one. Add Greg Monroe to this team, and it is a real contender, not just scrapping to make the sweet 16. Plus we know that Patrick Patterson said some remarks that could also be interpreted as a lack of comfort with wojo.

Anyway, why not get a big man to coach the big men?

Bottom line. Duke has no quality big men, and has suffered as a result

[_Gary]

I completely agree with that last two posters. Look, I love Wojo personally and he may be a fantastic big man coach, but the fact is that in this world perception is reality! And *if* Monroe's attitude reflects that of other big men around the country the program should at least seriously consider switching some things up. The facts are that we have failed to land several big men in the last 6 or so recruiting classes. And as others have said, this wasn't due to a logjam at the 5. In fact, just the opposite was true. Guys like Monroe and Patterson could have come in and basically had the position all to themselves. That's a pretty large and important factor to just blow off.

Gary

[jma4life]

Coach K has never struck me as the kind of guy who is going to base his personnel moves on appeasing or trying to appeal to high school kids. I suppose if Wojo could be promoted (though isn't he co associate head coach now and still big man coach?) it could happen but K isn't going to strip Wojo of that role if he thinks Wojo is doing a good job just because some high school kids don't think WOjo is cool enough. That's not how they do it at West Point, for better or worse.

[jv001]

I have my own opinion on the Wojo/Big man coach, but I'm going to hold my comments until after the NCAAs are over. Not that anyone cares what my opinion is anyway. I say let's enjoy this year and hope it continues for 4 more games. Go Duke!

[The Gordog]

Just heard Jason Williams on the Herd radio show. Cowherd asked him about Duke being primarily a perimeter team and why doesn't Duke attract more big men. Jason said that Duke has always been more of a guard oriented team with the exception of some notable big men like Boozer when they won the championship in '01. The interesting thing that he said was that he had talked to Greg Monroe which Duke missed out on, and Monore basically said that he loved Duke but the one negative was that Wojo was the big man coach and he didn't see how he could learn from him since he was a guard all his life. He was also talking about how he was questioning if he should go to the game Thursday since the two tournament games he went to (VCU, West Virginia) were both losses. I thought the Monroe comment was interesting, since it has been discussed on here before. Any thoughts? Also stay home on thursday Jason! GO DUKE

I was going to make a post about JWill's comments about Monroe and Wojo.

I have always thought Wojo hasn't really fit as a big man coach. Aside from the fact he has no experience - and yes, I know that we have had prior big men coaches who were also guards - I think having a recruit like Monroe spurn us because of Wojo makes having Wojo as big man coach a liability. I wouldn't be surprised if other big men Duke has lost out on also took that into consideration.

I think it would be better to make Nate James the big man coach. I don't see what makes him any less qualified than Wojo. He actually played in the post a little, so he has more experience actually playing in the post. He also embraces the role of teacher/mentor, as he seems to have done a fine job taking Elliot Williams under his wing.

I think if we had a more qualified big man coach, Brian Zoubek and Lance Thomas would be better than they are now. That is obviously just speculation on my part, but I have very little confidence in Wojo. Our few successful big men, like Boozer and Shelden Williams, would have been great with or without him.

I typically stay out of the Wojo bigman arguments, but I have to point out that the validity of your argument here (a classic, by the way) is undermined by a recruit stating that his lack of trust in Wojo's ability to develop him was a determining factor in not coming to Duke.

Sure, Coach K appointed Wojo to the job. But if Monroe's comment is reflective of a more widespread concern among recruits, than this is a new piece of data in the argument that should get considered by the powers-that-be. (By which, of course, I mean posters on teh internets.)

I've rejected this argument as ludicrous for years, but if Monroe's perception is common, or even shared by a sizable minority of HS players and coaches, then it's a major problem. No two ways around that. It would certainly answer the question we've all had for 5-6 seasons: why one of the premiere programs in the nation can't land a top-tier 5 despite there being huge minutes available and no legit competition at that spot.

I'm certain Wojo is a great coach and we all saw that Shel made tremendous strides in his time here. Z has had injuries and Lance is playing out of position, so I still think there's a strong case that Wojo can do the job. But if that perception exists (no matter what the reality is) then it needs to be addressed. Whether we do that by shuffling assignments, by launching a PR campaign for Wojo, or whatever we need to do something before we lose yet another class (2003-09 and counting).

I am sure I have posted on this before many times

It doesn't matter if wojo is the best or worst big man coach in the world, perception is what matters

It is a huge perception hill to climb to start with Wojo as the big man coach:

- He was a PG
- He is tiny
- He is white and urban
- He is hated by everyone who is not a Duke fan. Btw, this I think is the biggest strike against him. He is commonly in a very negative light

People like to spend time with people who are like them. Wojo is not like any of the big men

Some may dismiss this and say "well its just Greg Monroe, we don't know how other big men feel/felt". Well the answer to that is it only takes one. Add Greg Monroe to this team, and it is a real contender, not just scrapping to make the sweet 16. Plus we know that Patrick Patterson said some remarks that could also be interpreted as a lack of comfort with wojo.

Anyway, why not get a big man to coach the big men?

Bottom line. Duke has no quality big men, and has suffered as a result

I completely agree with that last two posters. Look, I love Wojo personally and he may be a fantastic big man coach, but the fact is that in this world perception is reality! And *if* Monroe's attitude reflects that of other big men around the country the program should at least seriously consider switching some things up. The facts are that we have failed to land several big men in the last 6 or so recruiting classes. And as others have said, this wasn't due to a logjam at the 5. In fact, just the opposite was true. Guys like Monroe and Patterson could have come in and basically had the position all to themselves. That's a pretty large and important factor to just blow off.

Gary

I would ask all of you how has that worked out for the esteemed Mr. Monroe, hmmm? It seems to me that Monroe has no integrity. He cancelled his visit at the last moment and made an impulsive decision.

Lot's of teams do not have quality big men. In 1983-'86 we had Jay Bilas for cryin' out loud - we did pretty well in '86 and I think Zoubek is at least as good as Jay was.

We landed the #1 big man in the HS class of '05. For better or for worse, the whole world was wrong about Josh.

[NSDukeFan]

I am sure I have posted on this before many times

It doesn't matter if wojo is the best or worst big man coach in the world, perception is what matters

It is a huge perception hill to climb to start with Wojo as the big man coach:

- He was a PG
- He is tiny
- He is white and urban
- He is hated by everyone who is not a Duke fan. Btw, this I think is the biggest strike against him. He is commonly in a very negative light

People like to spend time with people who are like them. Wojo is not like any of the big men

Some may dismiss this and say "well its just Greg Monroe, we don't know how other big men feel/felt". Well the answer to that is it only takes one. Add Greg Monroe to this team, and it is a real contender, not just scrapping to make the sweet 16. Plus we know that Patrick Patterson said some remarks that could also be interpreted as a lack of comfort with wojo.

Anyway, why not get a big man to coach the big men?

Bottom line. Duke has no quality big men, and has suffered as a result

I will take this ACC championship and going to the sweet sixteen on a role suffering for hopefully four more games this year.
It doesn't seem to me that Duke would be the type of program that would move a coach (I don't know if Wojo is good as a big man coach or not) based on perception rather than on whether he is good at what he does.

[FerryFor50]

I will take this ACC championship and going to the sweet sixteen on a role suffering for hopefully four more games this year.
It doesn't seem to me that Duke would be the type of program that would move a coach (I don't know if Wojo is good as a big man coach or not) based on perception rather than on whether he is good at what he does.

Would you still be as satisfied with this season's results had Pittman not gotten into foul trouble and led Texas over us?

[UrinalCake]

Just to add more speculation to the fire, my opinion is that Duke's style of offense would be what turns away a recruit who plays a traditional center position. Duke has run its motion offense for as long as Coach K has been around, and it relies more on mobile, versatile big men (who are really power forwards) than a traditional post. The epitome of this was Laettner. The more recent examples of Duke's successful centers - Boozer, Brand, Williams - were all really power forwards playing center in college. And even with those guys our offense did not revolve around dumping it into them. We did at times, but it wasn't the basis of our offense.

So for a guy like Greg Monroe, it wouldn't really suit his talents to come into this type of offensive system.