WBB: MSU 63, Duke 49 (NCAAT 2R)

[A-Tex Devil]

Hmmmmm.... why hasn't this thread been locked? I'm not saying it should, but it seems that similar men's threads after Belmont and West Virginia last year and even the Clemson/UNC/BC gauntlet this year weren't as critical of coaches, but were locked. Coaches vs. player criticism being the difference, maybe? Not egging anything on, just curious.

My take is give the coach a chance. A legend just left, McCallie brought Michigan State from nowhere and got Duke a 1 seed this year. Duke got a tough draw this year, and honestly wasn't any more disappointing than our men's end of the season last year. Probably less so considering this is the UCONN invitational this year.

[sue71, esq]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the Cal-USC game in the Pac-10 tournament. But did anyone see it? I stumbled upon it on FSN during a timeout of the Big East title game, and stuck with it. Cal was down by 2 with 0.3 seconds left. They did what they had to do to tie the game -- a lob, a tip, a score -- but then the officials, influenced by USC's bully of a coach (who needed the win to have any shot at an NCAA bid), spent 15 minutes watching the play over and over before deciding the basket should not count. It was maddening.

At the risk of taking this thread in another direction, I feel I must chime in on this.

The rule in WBB (not sure about MBB) is that if there is .5 or less on the clock, you cannot put 2 hands on the ball. That is considered catch & shoot which (the NCAA has decided) there is not time for (including the officials' reaction time), so a player can only put 1 hand on the ball for a tip in.

As the Cal player had put both hands on the ball, the call had originally & correctly been made as NO BASKET. However, one or both of the other officials couldn't make up his/her mind, and they decided to have an 11+ minute conference about it, which included 4 trips to the monitor. In the end, they again decided NO BASKET, which is what it should have been, BY RULE.

Like the rule or not, love Cal or USC or not, the right call was made. What the officials did in dragging it out for 11+ minutes, however, was ridiculous. And FWIW, I was there.

(Side note: I know in the NBA a player can use 2 hands in this situation, but I'm not sure about NCAA MBB.)

[-jk]

Hmmmmm.... why hasn't this thread been locked? I'm not saying it should, but it seems that similar men's threads after Belmont and West Virginia last year and even the Clemson/UNC/BC gauntlet this year weren't as critical of coaches, but were locked. Coaches vs. player criticism being the difference, maybe? Not egging anything on, just curious.

My take is give the coach a chance. A legend just left, McCallie brought Michigan State from nowhere and got Duke a 1 seed this year. Duke got a tough draw this year, and honestly wasn't any more disappointing than our men's end of the season last year. Probably less so considering this is the UCONN invitational this year.

The Mods are paying attention to this thread, and so far it has both pushed the envelope and also had some good give and take. And yes, there is a difference in how we treat players and coaches.

Should things get out of hand, we'll take action as necessary. And as always, criticism is fine, just please keep it constructive.

regards,

-jk

[Stray Gator]

Interesting read:

http://www.freep.com/article/2009032...Callie+s+new+j

[KandG]

Our loss was the top story on SportsCenter, and is the front article on ESPN.com and SI.com. That means we are still nationally relevant. The most important thing is that we stay that way.

I wonder if that's going to continue to be the case. I find the team far more unwatchable most of the time I've seen them than I ever did when Coach G was at the helm. As long as results are good, I suppose aesthetics are secondary, but you have to wonder if the noose is going to tighten considerably if the team fails to get out of the first weekend again next year, and doesn't show strides in its recruiting.

I think the coach deserves another couple of years, but there have been red flags around her from the time she was hired, and her ability to dissuade her detractors has been mixed (to be charitable).

[Mike Corey]

It has been a pleasure to read this thread, and I appreciate the fact that such a conversation has been permitted on this board.

As a fan and an alum, I'm proud that we have such high expectations for the women's program, and we should all be secure in the knowledge that Coach McCallie and Duke are both equally committed to maintaining Duke's lofty and respected place in the world of women's bball.

I unfortunately haven't had the pleasure of getting to know Coach McCallie or her team nearly as well as I would like, but I do know that Coach McCallie has high expectations and her own unique way of striving for them. But when something isn't working, I for one do not think it is inappropriate to raise questions.

Recruiting has fallen off considerably. We are a far cry from landing top-flight individuals, let alone top-flight classes. That cannot continue if Duke is to remain a contender for championships. Coach P loves interacting with recruits, but she doesn't care for the minutiae of the process--the incessant texts, phone calls, and other idiosyncracies of recruiting that so many elite players love. And having an assistant in charge of recruiting would appear to be hurting Duke's ability to reel in big-time talent, as well. Might a change of philosophy and practice make a difference? I think it may be worth considering.

Coach P has brought in very good players thus far, and I've no doubt that they are excellent contributors to Duke. But the lack of star-talent will begin to show, and right soon.

I should note that I think comparisons of Coach P's situation in recruiting to those of Coach K's at the inception of his Duke career are wholly unfair. Coach K did not inherit a basketball behemoth. Coach P did. For it to fall off--and it has--so quickly is worthy of thoughtful questioning.

Consider that Duke had advanced to 7 Elite Eights in 9 years, had won 30 games in 7 straight seasons, and had not finished any worse than second in the conference in a decade. Yes, Duke has continued to do well under Coach P, but the distinction is clear enough to raise eyebrows. Certainly, this may all be a part of the transition to Coach P's preferred style of play. I certainly hope it is, and that as our players become more acclimated to it, so too does Duke's success.

Of course, Coach K's program had similar difficulties after its unprecedented run of excellence from 1986-1994. And it is absolutely possible that the women's program's well was bound to run dry regardless of whether or not Coach G or Coach P or Coach K was at the helm.

Coach McCallie is a great talent in her own right, and will have a long and successful career. I hope that happens for her at Duke, for decades to come. I know she has the desire and the ability as a coach and as a person. I know her players wanted to win as badly as ever this season. But it's a matter of channeling all that into successful practice that counts.

That's yet to happen, though I believe firmly it will. In the meantime, as Nolan Smith's dad might have said, let's get to work.

[bird]

My comments:

1. Coach G was not perfect.

2. I am satisfied with the effort and defense of Duke.

3. Long offensive droughts were a characteristic of this year's team.

4. Missing many inside shots, whether hacked or not, was a characteristic of this year's team.

5. Overall, and this includes virtually every women's team I have seen this year at the elite levels, I have not enjoyed watching women's basketball as much as in the past. I am not sure why. Maybe it is the low-point at TN; maybe it is the lack of strong player personalities (Taurasi/Beard years had to be a high moment, in retrospect). Maybe it is the style of play. I have always thought that the women's game should be a passing/shooting style, the stuff that Alana and Taursi excelled at. I see more of the driving/banging style.

5. I'm going to miss Abby. I look forward to watching more of Jasmine.

[miramar]

Interesting read:

http://www.freep.com/article/2009032...Callie+s+new+j

Well, the Big 10 is a pretty tough conference and I guess that's reflected in the press coverage. Not to mention that they printed the least flattering photo they could possibly find.

If you do the math about Izzo's comments that McCallie wasn't happy her last two years at Michigan State, then that would mean that she likely decided to look for another position after the 2005 season, when they played in the national championship game and she was named coach of the year. If it was as obvious as the article makes it out to be, then I guess it's only natural that they would feel spurned and that they would take a real delight in what they see as McCallie's comeuppance.

[blueprofessor]

Interesting read:

http://www.freep.com/article/2009032...Callie+s+new+j

Indeed...
Stars Mia Johnson, Lauren Aitch and Lykendra Johnson deserve most of the credit for that. But Merchant badly outcoached McCallie. Even as MSU built a 25-20 halftime lead, it was obvious that Duke had superior talent. Merchant had her team more focused. In the final minutes, it was the Spartans who kept their composure while the mighty Blue Devils folded.

This looked like a gross mismatch on paper, and not just because Duke was a No. 1 seed and MSU was a No. 9. The Spartans don't have a natural point guard and the Blue Devils love to press.

It seemed set up for a triumphant return for McCallie -- and since McCallie is still a leading cause of raised eyebrows in East Lansing, people wondered if she set this up. Was it a coincidence that the chair of the selection committee is Duke associate athletic director Jacki Silar?

McCallie should have pressed the whole game. She didn't. Merchant adjusted her zone defense to improve MSU's rebounding.

In a luxury box, Izzo sat next to football coach Mark Dantonio and cheered on the team.

"I'm really happy for Suzy," Izzo said. "This is her dream job. That's kind of what you want out of people, to find somebody who dreams of being in a place."

Merchant's heart is in East Lansing, and her team is in the Sweet 16. She can coach with anybody. Ask Coach P.

Best--Blueprof

[MHTorringjan]

Uh, you mean those same recruits that were 21-10, lost in the first round of the Big Ten tourney to a seven seed, and won their opening round game by one point against Middle Tennessee State? Michigan State is a good team, but they are a nine seed for a reason. Duke had seven MacDonald All-Americans. How many does Michigan State have? The answer is zero. We lost to a less talented team. The loss was due in part to the venue, but that was not the main factor. A one seed should be able to win on a nine seed's home court.

I'd like to say that my perception of the main reason that we lost was poor shooting and poor shot selection (at least, from what I saw; I wasn't able to watch the whole game). Nerves, venue, crowd, and the players wanting it may all have also played a part in the loss. Shot selection can be coached, but in-game, the coach does not have direct control over the actions or minds of the players. So, while the coach may be responsible for some aspects of the game (game-plan, defensive assignments, etc.) there are some aspects that the coach has no control over. Frankly, I'd say that blaming the game on the coach, as so many of the people commenting on this thread have been quick to do, is unfair. It's a team effort, winning or losing.

[MHTorringjan]

Over the course of the season, we have had high points, as well as low points. I hate to see when one of the low points ended up being the last game of the year, but what can you say... When you have an off night against someone who's playing well, these things happen. I'd like to try to compare it to Kansas on the men's side losing to Bucknell in the first round and then winning a national championship, but I can't yet make that comparison.

I feel that people making comments like "this is going to be the end of Duke Basketball" are reacting hastily. Every program has blips during the season, and only one wins it all at the end. Perhaps we could have heard from these people saying "this is going to be a watershed moment in Duke Basketball history!" when we beat Carolina on Senior night or when we beat Maryland on our home floor or when we took down Stanford earlier in the season, as those were strong wins against power-house programs. Admittedly, it might make some difference that the loss came in the tourney to the big underdog, but hopefully recruits would be able to look at the total picture of the program and realize that one loss does not a program make.

I agree with many of the posters here that the recruiting scene is somewhat bare, but we don't have any idea how the recruits for next year are going to react and we don't know how really good (or not) the freshmen we're getting next year are going to be. I can't say that I'm doubtless that Tayler Hill's decision won't be affected by this single game, but I can hope that she'd look at the entire set of factors (coach's attitude, coach's style, team-mates, education value, prestige of program, etc.) and decide that even though we didn't live up to post-season expectations, we're still her team. As for next year, there are a number of players who are still considering us and who haven't committed, so we can't really say how that looks yet. Am I a little worried? Sure, but fans usually do worry when they don't get a Top 10 class.

I personally look at this season and while I admit that it was disappointing in many respects, I'm still proud of the girls and cautiously optimistic about next year. 27 wins and single digit losses on a season is not something to sneeze at, and it's better than we did last year thanks to our girls. Next year will be different without Chante, but I feel like we've seen some good things out of Krystal this year and she's got plenty of time to develop.

We have a strong core of players returning, and we have strong freshmen who have spent the year improving. I will be interested to see how Coach P adjusts her style to the change in personnel, hopefully realizing that we have less bulk inside to look to and that we need to work a little variety into the offensive schemes, seeing as how "get the ball to Krystal" probably won't work as well as "get the ball to Chante."

There are concerns that still need to be addressed from this year, and they're the same concerns that I had watching the games throughout the year. Turnovers and poor shot selection are the biggest issues, both offensive issues. The defense is amazing, don't change a thing, but we need a more effective offense and we need more variety in the offensive game plan. I think that if Coach P doesn't mix things up and soon then things will definitely get rough, and if that happens, then we need to figure out where to go from there, but not before. It really sounds to me like many Duke fans are becoming something akin to NC State fans moaning about Herb Sendek and how he wasn't good enough for their liking.

The point I'm trying to make is that there has been good and there has been bad. People who are coming out of the wood-work who were absent when we won the big games need to step back, take a breath, and enjoy the basketball, not the trophy. The trophy is an amazing achievement and it is the pinnacle of the sport, but it is not the only thing. Be proud of the girls and be proud of what they've done for this university. I'm proud of undefeated at home, finals of the ACC tourney and a loss in overtime against a higher-ranked Twerp team, beating UNC on senior night, single-digit ranking for most of the season, and 25+ wins on the year. Admittedly, I'm not so proud of last night, but I am still proud of the team overall, since one game does not define the character, the ability, and the passion of these girls.

Anyway, that's my rant for the season. See you all again when Tayler Hill decides where she's going (if anywhere).

[MHTorringjan]

I can recall when Duke women's basketball had loftier ambitions. Even so, if there were good reasons to believe that level of success could be maintained, you would see a lot less concern.

Look, we had loftier ambitions because we had Lindsey Harding, Allison Bales, Monique Currie, and Alanna Beard. I think that it's difficult to win a championship if we don't have NPOY candidates, which we haven't had for two years now. Unfortunately, Goestenkors didn't bring in any NPOY candidates her last year (except possibly Jasmine if she keeps developing), and Coach P has had one year to recruit them. Do we need better recruits? Probably, but teamwork is just as important as raw talent.

I'd say that there's reason to be cautiously optimistic, like I say in my crazy-stupid-long post, since the players have exhibited an intense will to win and have developed, and we got more wins and fewer losses this year than we did last year. Admittedly, there's a question mark about the post position, but hopefully, we'll find a way to adjust to that. This will be the true judge of quality of the coach, I think.

[CameronBornAndBred]

People who are coming out of the wood-work who were absent when we won the big games need to step back, take a breath, and enjoy the basketball, not the trophy.

Thank you very much for a long thoughtful post. Great comments throughout. Ultimately we may be proven wrong in our opinions, but never in our support. Just like Duke football, I will stick with the women's basketball team. I've been watching and listening since before Gail's time and appreciate what she did, and I appreciate what P has done. And all along I've had frustration and joy, and expect to continue to have both. GO DUKE!