JWill on the Herd

[SoCalDukeFan]

Perception is reality. If my son was 6' 11" I would have hard time thinking that Wojo was the right coach for him. Of course, I really don't know which schools have a guy who is the right coach for him.

I think that all great coaches are somewhat stubborn. The reality is that Coach K thinks that Wojo does the job. I think he will only change the job is something better opens up for Wojo, either at Duke or a HC job elsewhere.

SoCal

[DUKIE V(A)]

Would it be great to get a superstar bigman? Of course! But let's support who we got...coaches and players. They all WANT to be at Duke and are doing an outstanding job. Also, last I checked, we ARE a contender -- along with fifteen other talented and fortunate teams.

[arnie]

Perception is reality. If my son was 6' 11" I would have hard time thinking that Wojo was the right coach for him. Of course, I really don't know which schools have a guy who is the right coach for him.

I think that all great coaches are somewhat stubborn. The reality is that Coach K thinks that Wojo does the job. I think he will only change the job is something better opens up for Wojo, either at Duke or a HC job elsewhere.

SoCal

Fair conclusion. I've heard several times that P. Patterson just didn't "feel it" when he visited Duke. Any idea what that may have meant?

[killerleft]

Would you still be as satisfied with this season's results had Pittman not gotten into foul trouble and led Texas over us?

Pittman doesn't play many more minutes than he did against us. Weighs too much and finds all that running to be very taxing.

[NSDukeFan]

Would you still be as satisfied with this season's results had Pittman not gotten into foul trouble and led Texas over us?

You're right in that a few plays here and there can make a huge difference in how satisfied I am feeling. But we did make them and I actually felt pretty good when Z was in guarding Pittman. I was afraid when Pittman was being guarded by Lance or Kyle because of the size difference. I should have more confidence in them, though as we have done a good job against big teams all year.
I agree I would prefer to have a nice inside presence, but it's nice having our lineup now where we can switch all screens and have five good defensive players as well.

[FerryFor50]

Just to add more speculation to the fire, my opinion is that Duke's style of offense would be what turns away a recruit who plays a traditional center position. Duke has run its motion offense for as long as Coach K has been around, and it relies more on mobile, versatile big men (who are really power forwards) than a traditional post. The epitome of this was Laettner. The more recent examples of Duke's successful centers - Boozer, Brand, Williams - were all really power forwards playing center in college. And even with those guys our offense did not revolve around dumping it into them. We did at times, but it wasn't the basis of our offense.

So for a guy like Greg Monroe, it wouldn't really suit his talents to come into this type of offensive system.

I disagree. Monroe is more than a back to the basket post player. He's very mobile and could have developed a nice mid-range game, kind of like Brand and Boozer did.

[KandG]

Yikes, the Big Man Coach controversy rears its ugly head once more.

I'm curious to know how widespread Monroe's perception is. It's entirely possible that he made a very impulsive decision and used a talking point from a rival school's recruiting staff as his excuse. With that said, Jason did choose to repeat it on air, so perhaps it's worth opening this discussion again (after the season, of course).

FWIW, I've never thought much about the need for a "better" Big Man Coach, but like kudzu, this hot button doesn't want to go away. I would love to hear Coach K's take on this perception.

[FerryFor50]

You're right in that a few plays here and there can make a huge difference in how satisfied I am feeling. But we did make them and I actually felt pretty good when Z was in guarding Pittman. I was afraid when Pittman was being guarded by Lance or Kyle because of the size difference. I should have more confidence in them, though as we have done a good job against big teams all year.
I agree I would prefer to have a nice inside presence, but it's nice having our lineup now where we can switch all screens and have five good defensive players as well.

I thought Z did a passable job on Pittman - was very proud of the effort. But the fact remains that he ended up with 4 fouls and LT fouled out. It's also a fact that, when Pittman wanted, he was able to physically move Z without much effort, and Z isn't a light guy.

If/when Duke plays Pitt, I dread facing Blair and can only hope he gets into foul trouble. The last time he faced a 7 footer without much mobility... well... let's just say he made Thabeet his prison roommate.

[FerryFor50]

Yikes, the Big Man Coach controversy rears its ugly head once more.

I'm curious to know how widespread Monroe's perception is. It's entirely possible that he made a very impulsive decision and used a talking point from a rival school's recruiting staff as his excuse. With that said, Jason did choose to repeat it on air, so perhaps it's worth opening this discussion again (after the season, of course).

FWIW, I've never thought much about the need for a "better" Big Man Coach, but like kudzu, this hot button doesn't want to go away. I would love to hear Coach K's take on this perception.

Hell, why not a figurehead big man coach? Let Wojo keep working with them, but at least have a true pivot there for perception value. How do you think Pat Ewing has a job?

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I think the suggestion to get back to this after the season ends (hopefully in several weeks) is a very good one, so I want to clarify one thing and then I'll leave this alone.

I think Wojo is a great coach, and I think anyone who is paying attention should as well. He's had fairly poor material to work with lately, so his results don't look great, but everything I've seen and read suggests that he a good coach doing a good job. I don't think his height, his race, his "coolness", or his college position has any significant bearing on his ability to teach Duke's system to our players, including our big guys.

Duke has several issues with perception right now. We're seen as elitist, as unfriendly to poorer, African-American players, and as a place where big men won't get as much attention as they deserve in the offense. Having followed Duke for several decades, I think that all of these perceptions are deeply flawed and most are simply wrong. Nonetheless, they exist among the overwhelming majority of fanbases and, I'm afraid, far too many young players. We won't fix this by punishing or minimizing very good people (like Wojo). But we also won't fix it by pretending that these perceptions aren't out there, or ignoring them and hoping they go away.

Anyway, I've said way too much about this already and I really do want to focus on the amazing run this team is on. I'm so excited about cheering for this great bunch of players and our outstanding staff as we go forward, no matter how far we go. Let's go Duke!

[weezie]

If Monroe was just stating his personal impression, then I would discount it accordingly.

And one might conclude that G. Monroe did not make the correct decision. Wasn't such a great ride for him this year, even with all his deliberations.

[SMO]

- He was a PG
- He is tiny
- He is white and urban
- He is hated by everyone who is not a Duke fan.

At least 3 out of the 4 can be applied to Coach K and he's done alright.

[SMO]

Would you still be as satisfied with this season's results had Pittman not gotten into foul trouble and led Texas over us?

What if Duke hadn't won 30 games?
What if they hadn't won an ACC title?
What if Wojo stormed onto the court and grabbed Alabi by the ankle and was dragged around the court like Jeff Van Gundy after Alabi's technical in Cameron?

Thankfully, we'll never know, but it's so fun to speculate!

[Boston Dukie]

Some very good points here

A few other thoughts:

1) I hope Duke wins it all this year, but I am not holding my breath

2) Monroe made a terrible decision. He fits Duke perfectly. So the point is don't give other coaches the ability to use the "wojo will be your coach" line as a recruting tactic against Duke. True or not, it is working

3) Yes, Duke is in the sweet 16, and beat Texas (barely), but that is not the point. The point is that Duke has had among the best (the best this year?) 1through 4 in the country (counting Lance as a back-up 4 to Singler) and barely slid by (and very tough losses the last 2 years). So add in a Patterson or a Monroe, and then where would Duke be? They would be great. The opportunity cost of having no big man is enormous. Its really selling short all the other guys on the team

4) Nova is not a team with a great big man. Cunningham is very good, but not huge and hopefully Singler and Lance can slow him down (Zoubek won't play in this game). Nova is a good match up for Duke in this respect. Let's hope Pitt loses and see what happens. I am going to the Nova game, and would love a win

[SMO]

Georgetown assistants Kenya Hunter and David Cox were both point guards. I suppose Thompson III may be coaching the big men but he's only 6'4'' though he did play forward in college.

I suspect Georgetown having recently visited the Final Four and history of talented big men had more influence on Monroe's decision than Wojo.

Also, as has been mentioned many times previously, Pete Newell is generally recognized as the best big man coach of all time and he was short. If I'm not mistaken, Wojo attended his camp a time or two since Newell was highly regarded by both Coach Knight and Coach K.

This is the best explanation of why Monroe's rationale doesn't make a lot of sense. I wonder if Monroe didn't make the decision for a variety of reasons and is oversimplifying his decision in retrospect? It wasn't that long ago that Shelden Williams became the all-time rebounds and blocked shots leader at Duke under basically the same coaching staff as what is currently there.

[Duvall]

At least 3 out of the 4 can be applied to Coach K and he's done alright.

Which one wouldn't apply? Chicago is certainly more urban than Severna Park, and I'm sure most of us look tiny to the Greg Monroe-sized.

[SMO]

Which one wouldn't apply? Chicago is certainly more urban than Severna Park, and I'm sure most of us look tiny to the Greg Monroe-sized.

Coach has put on some pounds since his playing days but is certainly still tiny by big man standards. So there you are, 4 for 4. We need a bigger, hard-core, loved-by-the-masses coach and then we'll be set.

[dukemsu]

Ah, back to one of the old standards.

I would challenge Cowherd and any other clown who only watches hoop when they need something to gamble on in football's off-season to look around the country for great "big men". How many are there, in terms of back to the basket 7 foot types?

Almost none. I'll give you Thabeet and Aldrich. Earl Cook is a nice player, but he is certainly not a world-beater. Hans, well, we all know that story (and isn't it interesting that he was on the bench for most of the UNC run on Saturday?). And Hans is 6'8". I'm waiting. Hmmm. There just aren't many big men who fit that profile anymore. Blair might be 6'8". Talented bigs (like Monroe, I'm personally not that sold on Patterson) are few and far between, and yes, they aren't picking Duke for whatever reason. I think the reason may be that Duke is not likely to tailor its entire system to one guy who will be on campus one year. Just my opinion.

Duke does seem to lack the guys around 6'8" who are up there in weight class (I would say strong, but Kyle has answered all the strength questions. He looks skinny sometimes, but he's a strong dude). I would personally love to see another McLeod type of guy. It'd be great to have someone of his size and build in the paint.

But the notion that there are scores of 7 footers wandering the gyms of America is ludicrous. There just aren't many of these guys. Duke hasn't gotten one of them, but almost no one else has, either.

Cowherd should go back to analyzing the fourth round of the upcoming NFL Draft.

dukemsu.

[blueprofessor]

Duke does seem to lack the guys around 6'8" who are up there in weight class (I would say strong, but Kyle has answered all the strength questions. He looks skinny sometimes, but he's a strong dude). I would personally love to see another McLeod type of guy. It'd be great to have someone of his size and build in the paint.

...a 1st team all-ACC and 3rd team AA as a senior. He was picked in the 1st round of the 1998 NBA draft.
I,too, would love to have him back because he was a nightmare for matchups---he was a tremendous shooter and could score inside and outside.
Unfortunately, compared to Blair at 6-7 1/2 and 265 pounds, Roshown ,at 6-8 and 220 pounds(small forward in the NBA), would look lean.

Best--Blueprof

[gofurman]

I typically stay out of the Wojo bigman arguments, but I have to point out that the validity of your argument here (a classic, by the way) is undermined by a recruit stating that his lack of trust in Wojo's ability to develop him was a determining factor in not coming to Duke.

Sure, Coach K appointed Wojo to the job. But if Monroe's comment is reflective of a more widespread concern among recruits, than this is a new piece of data in the argument that should get considered by the powers-that-be. (By which, of course, I mean posters on teh internets.)

exactly - in recruiting as in much else: perception is reality.

If Monroe and others perceive that Duke has no real big man coach and outright state that hindered their desire to attend Duke then Duke has a problem... whether or not K or anyone else agrees is pointless. If recruits are spurning Duke for perception then THAT IS THE REALITY and needs to be addressed. Now, if K has talked to the recruits that went elsewhere and this is the ONE exception...fine. But if this has occurred multiple times it needs to be addressed