Jay Bilas and Dick Vitale Argue

[jipops]

I enjoy Vitale. He's fun and loves basketball. We have enough know-it-all PhD Hoopsologists that I'd rather watch a guy who is just having fun and showing heart. All the so-called hoop experts are like stock pickers anyways...not exactly the most accurate prognosticators.

Well if you want a guy that is having fun while providing in depth on the spot analysis then Bill Rafferty is your guy. Vitale provides ZERO analysis during games, even for necessary stats like how many fouls a key player has, etc...

This is the turn off that a majority of people have with Vitale.

[grossbus]

This is the turn off that a majority of people have with Vitale.

right, he is a distraction and an annoying one at that.

[jipops]

So I just watched this discussion via DVR of the game day show. Vitale's argument is kind of sad. His focus is just on sticking up for the little guy but fails to bring many viable facts past just being emotional about seeing smaller program out there. Jay has his counter points prepared and presents a more viable case. Digger validates a little further.I don't get this perception that Bilas is somehow arrogant. He has an opinion and he backs it up. Interesting how someone who has his opinions and speaks intelligently about them comes across as somehow smug and arrogant. Isn't that how many people feel about K and Duke?

The bubble argument talk is kind of ridiculous anyways. No system could ever be perfect. A playoff system in college football, while potentially better than the current system, would still have tons of controversy of far more of a magnitude than college basketball bubble talk.

[mapei]

My take is that they both should have backed off and agreed to disagree. No need to try to make your counterpart to be a fool. To some extent they are probably aware that their function is to use disagreement to entertain, and pushed farther than they would have in real life. But, instead of being entertaining, it came off as mean-spirited.

As for Jay not having confidence in Duke, there is absolutely no reason for anyone to have confidence in Duke in the NCAA tournament based on the last few years. Those who did (like me) got their brackets busted early and repeatedly.

[-jk]

As for Jay not having confidence in Duke, there is absolutely no reason for anyone to have confidence in Duke in the NCAA tournament based on the last few years. Those who did (like me) got their brackets busted early and repeatedly.

Me too. Over and over and over again.

But I don't regret it. Not once.

-jk

[dukegirlinsc]

I enjoy Vitale. He's fun and loves basketball. We have enough know-it-all PhD Hoopsologists that I'd rather watch a guy who is just having fun and showing heart. All the so-called hoop experts are like stock pickers anyways...not exactly the most accurate prognosticators.

I agree with this. I can see how he can grind on people's nerves, but he doesn't bother me for the most part. He does genuinely love the game, and he's not always trying to make a point or prove someone wrong.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Although was that a hint of loyalty when he asked what Hubert was smiling about?

And I loved Davis' response, I actually got a lot of respect for him at that moment. He said all the guys were doing is throwing out numbers. (they were talking about Duke losing early in NCAA last time they won ACC and UNC winnng it all after they exited) He then said those stats don't mean a damn thing, so don't bother with them.

[dukegirlinsc]

And I loved Davis' response, I actually got a lot of respect for him at that moment. He said all the guys were doing is throwing out numbers. (they were talking about Duke losing early in NCAA last time they won ACC and UNC winnng it all after they exited) He then said those stats don't mean a damn thing, so don't bother with them.

Exactly. Duke hasn't performed well in the past few years, what does that have to do with this year? This years tournament is more wide open than it's been in a long time, in my opinion. This team is a lot different than the team of the past few years. It's good to see Hubert throwing out good points every now and then.

[mcdukie]

I am usually a Vitale fan but he seemed lost, almost out of touch. If Davidson can find some big boys to play than don't tell me that St. Mary's couldn't find some. Also, Knight says some stuff that makes no sense, like there is no advantage to being a 1 seed.

[Kimist]

At least in the Triangle area, we did not have to endure Vitale and friends.

Actually, it was quite pleasant having G-man do the commentary!

k

[-bdbd]

First I like both men, for different reasons. Obviously Dick has a treemendous love for the game, clearly his heart is in the right place, and he has had a lot to do with the growth in following/exposure of the NCAAT through the 80's and 90's. Jay is, I believe, one of the most factual, knowledgeable, and best overall analysts ESPN has (even if he does bend over backwards - and then some - to prove he's not pro-Duke...)

They've had this argumant before, albeit more civil, subtle. Clearly Dick has a chip on his shoulder pulling for the little guys. I have no problem with that, as it is consistent with his "love of the game, big heart" personna and background. Jay is cold and factual. I really don't think Jay "pulls" for the majors; he just didn't believe, factually, that St. Mary's deserved to get in (nor did Digger obviously). There's nothing "smug" in making a fact-based argument. At all. But at no point did he say anything that sounded at all "smug" to me. The fact that he wouldn't allow Dick, bless his heart, to talk over him and drown out his argument -- well that was simply the right thing to do.

Understand, I LIKE St. Mary's. I grew up mostly in the Bay Area and knew people who went there. I'd have LOVED to have seen them make it. (Conversely I'm NOT a fan of Arizona's for a couple of unrelated reasons.) But in this circumstance, I thought Jay made the more compelling (AZ-over-St Mary's) argument. At least Dick came back, a little while later, and was smart enough to say if effect, "While maybe not St. Mary's, I still think it isn't a level playing field...and the Mid-Major's can't get home-and-homes - which would be FAIR - with the big boys." That said, there's no doubt that St Mary's and others CAN still beef up their schedules, and simply chose not to. To me the culprit screwing those kids there is not the NCAA, or Arizona -- it's their own Head Coach and Ath. Director who didn't schedule what was necessary to get them into the tournament.

-BDBD

[jma4life]

Seriously, what was Digger doing with his finger. Really weird.

[devildownunder]

I am usually a Vitale fan but he seemed lost, almost out of touch. If Davidson can find some big boys to play than don't tell me that St. Mary's couldn't find some. Also, Knight says some stuff that makes no sense, like there is no advantage to being a 1 seed.

There is an advantage to being a 1 seed, as opposed to a 3, imo. Not so much from 1 to 2. I think if you are seeded on either of the top 2 lines, You stand an outstanding chance of getting two overmatched opponents on your way to the sweet 16. As a 3, you stand a good chance of getting someone who can legitimately play with you in the first round -- and in the 2nd round, it's almost a certainty.

But back to Knight, I think his point basically was that he'd rather not have the target that comes with being a 1. There is some logic to that -- unless you're Duke and will be everyone's fave team to beat anyway.

[devildownunder]

That said, there's no doubt that St Mary's and others CAN still beef up their schedules, and simply chose not to. To me the culprit screwing those kids there is not the NCAA, or Arizona -- it's their own Head Coach and Ath. Director who didn't schedule what was necessary to get them into the tournament.

-BDBD

Particularly since they had every reason to believe, all the way back to 2 seasons ago, that they would be pretty good this year.

[Lavabe]

Seriously, what was Digger doing with his finger. Really weird.

It WAS weird. I thought he was doing his little dance from the Gameday commercials.

The ONLY thing somewhat smug from Jay was an early eye/facial gesture (about one minute in), but other than that, I felt that Jay was trying to reign in Dickie V from taking too much time in the segment. Good for Jay. I wish he had had a calm counterpart presenting the St. Mary's perspective ... ooh, like a representative from the school. THAT would have been more compelling than Dickie V, in this venue.

Don't get me wrong. I like Dickie V, so long as he isn't calling a game (witness some of the absurd banter between DV and Patrick the other day). In doses, I like him, and what he does for basketball. He's the anti-curmudgeon. I just wish that he had tried to discuss things as per the guidelines Jay seemed to enforce. I'd like DV to bring out his knowledge when in a discussion like this one.

The "attend Duke" comment was out of place. It had nothing to do with the discussion.

I felt like the mods should have given DV a warning.
Cheers,
Lavabe

[blueprofessor]

many in the audience and, as an anxious to please and ambitious person, tilts against Duke, it is Digger who is the authentic passive-aggressive Duke-hater.
Last night, Digger was simply aggressively anti-Duke.Nothing passive about his personality disorder.

Bilas and Vitale both were too hot for the medium in their contretemps.
At times, Bilas was hectoring Vitale, knowing full well that V is not as popular as he was.

Each had some good points and each diverted attention from those arguments by his manner of presentation.

Best---Blueprofessor

Jay Bilas: " If I had not gone to school there, I'd hate Duke ,too."

[SMO]

Glad to see that you guys worship at the Altar of Jay like he worships at the Altar of UNC now.

Huh? I've criticized Bilas several times on this board, probably much more than I've praised him. Vitale had a bad argument and couldn't support it with facts like Digger and Jay did, then he got frustrated and acted childish.

[Lid]

I'm not sure why sexism is hilarious. The problem is not PC; it's grown adults not having the guts to tell a coddled anachronism that he is wrong and a jerk.

Agree totally. I couldn't believe they spent so long dissecting every single comment about whether St. Mary's had sufficient opportunity to prove themselves, yet Knight made an outrageous statement like that and the response was... nothing. Even if he misspoke, someone should have asked him to clarify. My husband and I just sat there and stared at each other when he said that.

[GoingFor#5]

Vitale made a better argument on SC today. He said Patty Mills is back? Is that correct? They only lost 2 games with Mills, then went 6-4 without him, costing them the bid. If he is back, I believe they deserve a bid given how good they were with him. Arizona lost 13 and the Pac 10 isn't all that great.

[slower]

Agree totally. I couldn't believe they spent so long dissecting every single comment about whether St. Mary's had sufficient opportunity to prove themselves, yet Knight made an outrageous statement like that and the response was... nothing. Even if he misspoke, someone should have asked him to clarify. My husband and I just sat there and stared at each other when he said that.

If Bob Knight is inevitable, just relax and enjoy it.