So what would you have Imus do?

[g_olaf]

Or perhaps a better comparison would be someone calling a bunch of Duke LAX players rich lily-white trust fund rapists.

Or something like that.

Yes, I agree (especially if those comments were made in the absence of any allegations). Likewise, what if Imus had made comments similar to those made about JJ's little sister. This is not 'Nam. There are rules. Imus was over the line, and he has entered a world of pain.

Personally, I find this less an issue a race and more an issue of incredibly bad taste. People like Stern and Imus have made huge amounts of money by pushing the line of good taste and decency. There is no reason to avoid punishing them when they overstep that line. Moreover, this should not be construed as the an issue of "political correctness". I can not think of a time when someone would not have been called out for making these comments.

[feldspar]

Al Sharpton has the audacity to go on national TV and say that hopefully NBC's firing of Imus is a sign of taking a step in the right direction of making sure these kind of messages are not a part of the public airways.

I'm sorry. I just don't understand how anyone can take this man seriously.

[Duvall]

Al Sharpton has the audacity to go on national TV and say that hopefully NBC's firing of Imus is a sign of taking a step in the right direction of making sure these kind of messages are not a part of the public airways.

What a horrible thing to say. He should be ashamed.

[feldspar]

What a horrible thing to say. He should be ashamed.

Sharpton has had plenty of chances to speak out about African-American women being stereotyped and villified over the public airways over the last 20 or so years. Why he chose this time to be this outspoken about it I'll never understand.

[Duvall]

Sharpton has had plenty of chances to speak out about African-American women being stereotyped and villified over the public airways over the last 20 or so years. Why he chose this time to be this outspoken about it I'll never understand.

What makes you think that he hasn't?

In any event, if you folks find Sharpton so odious, why do you keep bringing him up? Just ignore him like the rest of us.

[feldspar]

What makes you think that he hasn't?

In any event, if you folks find Sharpton so odious, why do you keep bringing him up? Just ignore him like the rest of us.

I'd love to ignore him. But then I'd have to stop watching TV, reading the newspaper, listening to our public airways, etc etc etc.

[Duvall]

I'd love to ignore him. But then I'd have to stop watching TV, reading the newspaper, listening to our public airways, etc etc etc.

You should do the first and third of those things anyway, at least for news purposes. And Sharpton doesn't get *that* much publicity, unless you're crazy enough to watch cable news.

[feldspar]

You should do the first and third of those things anyway, at least for news purposes. And Sharpton doesn't get *that* much publicity, unless you're crazy enough to watch cable news.

Just saw him on my local ABC channel. And to say he hasn't gotten that much publicity over the last week is a joke.

[Duvall]

Just saw him on my local ABC channel.

Watching local news was your mistake. Stop encouraging them.

[feldspar]

Watching local news was your mistake. Stop encouraging them.

Ah. I see how it works. Perhaps the Rutgers women's team and Al Sharpton should simply quit paying attention to Don Imus. Stop encouraging him.

[gus]

Jeez, does no one understand that words actually still have meaning or, is the point of debate just to make over-reaching statements in defense of one's position?

He (Imus) has made, and been overheard/recorded, two statements! He's never used the "N" word or other overtly racist statements.

You keep ignoring the fact that he had to make a pledge to stop making racist statements. This suggests he has made more than the two cited in this thread. His others simply haven't garnered the outrage that his latest has.

He also made one of these after making that pledge.

And I strongly disagree that he has never used "overtly racists statements". Two have been cited in this thread.

[devildownunder]

this is something that has really been bothering me - in no way do I support what Imus said. However, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton call out the duke Lacrosse players for being racist? Have either of them ever apologized now that it appears the only crime that was committed was the stripper lying to the police? Have either of them come out and said that she was out of line for lying? Even if Jesse and Al didnt say anything, they further divided a community - have they aplogized for that?

On a more personal note, has Jesse Jackson ever aplogoized for referring to Jews as Hymies, or NY as Hymietown or any other of his history of masked anti-semitic remarks?

I'm not sure whether Jackson ever apologised specifically for his remarks. I think he did, as I believe they surfaced during an election year, but I'm not sure. Whether he did or not has little bearing on Imus's situation in my eyes. At this point, I don't really care whether he gets fired or not. It's much more significant, IMO, that he has been humbled and the issue has remained in the public eye for so long. People shouldn't have their "ideas" squashed but this wasn't an "idea," it was a cruel, inflammatory, dismissive, belittling joke delivered at a time when its recipients had every reason to expect praise and admiration. I'm glad that people have now had several days of evidence that those types of attacks have consequences.

So if you want to debate jackson's words or a double standard, fine, but none of that discussion should draw any fire away from Imus and I am well pleased that it hasn't.

[Duvall]

Ah. I see how it works. Perhaps the Rutgers women's team and Al Sharpton should simply quit paying attention to Don Imus. Stop encouraging him.

The next time Al Sharpton insults you, personally, on national television, you can start complaining about him.

I don't really care much about Imus myself - even if he's fired, two douchebags will rise to take his place. So it goes. I'm just amazed by the lengths to which people on this board will go to avoid acknowledging Imus for what he is.

[devildownunder]

First things first, Imus is not a racist. He made a racist comment while attempting to be funny. He went way over the line but, that does not make him a racist. It's not like he went "Michael Richards" on the Rutger's ladies.

I've listened to Imus every morning for the last nine years and while he can be, at times, stupid, sophomoric, redundant and borderline tasteless he is NOT a racist. His ranch for kids with cancer does not discriminate. He aggressively promoted Harold Ford for Senate. His work for the Tomorrow Children’s fund, the Intrepid Fallen Hero’s fund and much more tend to indicate he has a good heart if not the biggest brain. So he may be many things but, racist is not one of them.

I also disagree with the lumping Imus in with other “shock” jock morning shows. As was stated earlier, Imus tends to interview serious power players in the news and politics and can often get them to provide more information than other “interviewers” can extract. His audience included many of the people in power positions in our government and media. Are there bits on the show that can be a bit racy- Yes. Are some of “Cardinal Eagan’s” comments outrageous- absolutely. But for the most part the show aims much higher than the “morning zoo” type shows.

What I can’t understand from this whole brew-haha is how does someone like “Reverend” Al Sharpton, who was a major player in the Twana Brawley hoax, and whose run for president was nothing more than a sham to allow him to use campaign contributions in order to live the “lush life” still command a public audience? I mean for crying-out-loud! Sharpton’s role in the Brawley scandal was to blame a completely innocent man of some very heinous crimes and, once the whole thing is proven to be a huge fabrication, Sharpton makes no apologies what-so-ever! (Sounds kinda’ like the LAX case, eh?)

Imus tried, six days ago, to make a lame, outrageous joke and a racist statement came out, he’s apologized at least 50 times and people want him to lose his job. Sharpton promotes and demagogues a bogus scandal and comes out without a scratch.

IMHO, with leader like Sharpton and Jackson, the black community is being ill-served and has more to fear from their leaders than “whitey”.

Even if Imus were to be fired (which will not happen) how long do you think he would actually be off-the-air? Two minutes is how long, some other cable outfit for XM or somebody would hire him in a New York minute. How much punishment would Imus firing provide?

Despite what appears to be a common misconception in circles other than the african american community, jesse jackson and al sharpton are NOT the only leaders of black america. The black middle and upper class is growing people and there are black people in positions of power in politics, religion, entertainment, foreign affairs, business enterprise and any other field you can mention. If jackson and sharpton are flawed (and of course they are, like everyone else) the black community has many other people to depend on, so if worrying about whether that's the case is keeping you up nights, you can stop.

[devildownunder]

Two comments, both intended to be humourous (but missing the mark), over 30 some years... yeah, he's a flaming racist. What about the other examples I cite, the ones you chose to ignore?

We're not talking about two comments here. I don't know what goes on in his TV show but I've heard snippets from his radio show numerous times over the years and, while sexist comments/skits/jokes appear to be his forte, he has definitely had more than a few routines that took swipes at races in some way.

[devildownunder]

I would assume that with such a small sample size, you have no basis for passing such a sweeping judgement on a person. He made racist comments, yes, but I think you're over the line in calling him "a racist." You don't know Don Imus. I don't know Don Imus. None of us probably do.

I can think your comments are foolish, but that does not give me basis for calling you a fool. Why? Because I don't know you, gus.

The hyperbole being spewed forth as a result of Imus' hyperbole strikes me as incredibly ironic.

well yes, that's true, but it's also not the hot issue. If Imus moves in next to you, and he's not the same race you are, then the issue may be "is he a racist." But Imus is on the air on TV and radio running his mouth, so it's not enough that he not be a racist, however you define that. He must also refrain from making statements that are racially offensive. Why? Because we hold those who trade on our airwaves to a higher standard.

[devildownunder]

Please, someone, explain this to me. I must not be getting it. What did Imus say that was so racially appalling? Is "nappy" no longer an acceptable term for describing African hair? Is "ho" considered tantamount to the n-word? Would this situation have developed if Imus had called a predominantly white team "a bunch of blonde-haired valley girls"? If not, what's the difference between the two?

He didn't make sweeping generalizations about black people, or women, or even female college basketball players. He was simply comparing the two teams. The Rutgers women looked sort of rough, whereas the Tennessee women were pretty. He was trying to be funny by using words not usually in the vocabulary of a 60-something white man.

Imus is probably guilty of taking unfair potshots at amateur athletes, possibly guilty of objectifying female basketball players, and definitely guilty of making a somewhat questionable comment in a media and political climate that thrives on these kinds of trumped up, manufactured controversies. I don't think any of that merits dismissal.

I think the vast majority of american people would tell you that "nappy headed ho" conjurs in their minds a derogatory image of a black woman.

I also think the vast majority of americans would tell you that the words "a bunch of blonde-haired valley girls," while it conjurs up images of white women, not black ones, doesn't sound anywhere near as derogatory.

Someone else mentioned trailer-park trash. I think that comes a lot closer to a parallel insult.

[devildownunder]

I’ll stipulate that being born black in America can make life like running a race with a 50lb. sack on your back but, I fail to see how firing Imus will strike a blow against racism. Let's move past this manufactured controversy and get to a real dialogue on racism in America. And that can only start, IMHO, once the so-called black leaders take a good hard look themselves and get their own house in order.

So criticism of non-african americans, and specifically white americans, over racism is off limits until black america, in the eyes of some other community, is worthy of being allowed to engage in debate? I don't think so.

[devildownunder]

First of all, I'm amused that the OED actually has an entry for "ho". Second, you know just as well as I do that the way a word is used in the vernacular doesn't necessarily correspond with its dictionary meaning. Even more so when a word originates as slang and when someone is borrowing it from a vernacular that is not his own. In my estimation, "skank" is a much more severe and much less ambiguous word than "ho".

I'm not going to go on a philological investigation of the word, but let it suffice that "ho" needn't mean "whore" in every instance. In this instance, when it was spoken by an old white man, it almost certainly didn't. I would definitely take offense at a commentator calling the Duke women (or any women's team for that matter) a collection of whores. To put what Imus said in that light would be to misrepresent what he was saying, from my perspective at least.

Imus was trying to make a comparison between two sets of girls, and in doing so he used language that could be construed as sexist and, with a little ingenuity, as racist. He should have been more careful. But I'm not convinced that that alone makes him a racist or a bad man.

[EDIT: added the second half of the second paragraph]

With a little ingenuity? Honestly, this has to be a joke. Is there anyone on here who actually has the same feelings about the word "ho" as this poster? Anyone anywhere? Seriously, I'd really like to hear from them.

[devildownunder]

Or perhaps a better comparison would be someone calling a bunch of Duke LAX players rich lilly-white trust fund rapists.

Or something like that.

yeah, that's about right.