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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    greater New Orleans area
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Really? I haven't seen those games. Every time I've seen the ball hit the shot clock it's been called out of bounds.

    .
    I have seen multiple examples in the past month..

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by bjornolf View Post
    I'm almost positive that balls that bounce on top of the backboard but don't touch the shot clock are still in if the fall off the backboard on the "in" side. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. I can't find any mention of the top of the backboard in the rules at all.
    If that's the case, and I don't know if it's true, then the shot clock rule can't fall under the over the backboard rule. It would have to fall under a different rule. If the rules are organized like volleyball then touching the shot clock would be governed as if the ball touched the scoreboard.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Florida & Bozeman, Montana

    Unhappy Apparently, there has been bad blood between Ref JD Collins and Hamilton for years

    Quote Originally Posted by FireOgilvie View Post
    The 4 pt play occurred at 15:22, the technical on Hamilton was at 8:45 left to play in the first half. I doubt that is what Hamilton was complaining about.
    and the failure to grant Hamilton's request for a video review of Scheyer's near-miss of the shot clock on his 3-pointer merely lit a fuse.From an acquaintance who sat behind the FSU bench, I learned that this feud is profound and that Collins may have made a face or two at Hamilton that got Hamilton's goat.When you are angry at someone,you may unreasonably perceive another as acting with hostile intent.

    I doubt that many refs try to bait coaches the way umps do baseball players.But I am an optimist.

    In spite of a taciturn appearance, Hamilton is an emotional volcano who erupts occasionally.Last night, he did blow-up and the technical did leave a caldera,or so FSU fans say.

    At any rate, at least their fans really do admire Coach K,while thinking that Duke,like Carolina, gets the calls. Their proof re Duke is that ESPN harps on it.Sad that 1 media outlet is so dominant, because a lot of fans do not have the intellectual curiosity to investigate and not just accept "facts" from biased networks.They also have an announcer ,whom I like personally, who is always talking about bad calls.So the typical FSU fan's mindset is that forces are working against his team.
    Still,FSU fans are reasonable compared to many Duke -haters because they think K is the best (and admire him as a man and patriot) and that Duke has been the best program in America for 25 years.Also, they think Duke is up there with the top Ivies.That doesn't mean they don't want to beat our butt---we are their #1 team to beat in basketball,while Florida is that top target in football.
    I can stand that rivalry much better than some rival's fans that delusionally deny all the top,quantifiable assets and rankings Duke has accumulated athletically and academically.

    So,FSU is having a really fine season (for them), they have no-quit players and a tremendous warrior in Douglas, and a coach who loves his players and, a comment last night about Alabi's foul aside, does not whine about refs( red Williams) or blow up (baby blue Williams) before ascertaining the accuracy of another coach's alleged comments.

    Best regards---Blueprofesor

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by hughgs View Post
    I don't know. I've always assumed, based on my break the plane idea, that if they bounce on the top of the backboard that the ball would be out of bounds.
    I believe that is correct. There was a shot like this in the VT game - don't remember which team was shooting. It bounced on the top of the backboard and was ruled out of bounds - change of possession.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    From the 2009 NCAA rule book:

    Section 1. Out of Bounds—Player, Ball...

    Art. 2. The ball shall be out of bounds when it touches ... the supports or back of the backboard; or the ceiling, overhead equipment or supports.

    Art. 3. The ball shall be out of bounds when any part of the ball passes over
    the backboard from any direction.
    As I read it, the front, top, and sides of the backboard are in bounds. The back, the supports, and the shot clock ("overhead equipment") are out. And the ball must pass over the backboard to be out of bounds.

    For the record, IANAR.

    -jk

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    From the 2009 NCAA rule book:



    As I read it, the front, top, and sides of the backboard are in bounds. The back, the supports, and the shot clock ("overhead equipment") are out. And the ball must pass over the backboard to be out of bounds.

    For the record, IANAR.

    -jk

    On a backboard that is round (youth leagues or backyard games), the ball is automatically out of bounds if the ball hits the top. On a square backboard (every other league), the ball can hit the sides, or top as long as it doesn't hit the supports, shot clock, or back of the board. That being said, I agree with the earlier post that the ball looked like it hit the shot clock live, but if you watch the replay and slowed it down, it never actually hit the clock.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Florida & Bozeman, Montana

    Question So,ladies and gentlemen of the jury,what is the verdict?

    Quote Originally Posted by redick4pres View Post
    On a backboard that is round (youth leagues or backyard games), the ball is automatically out of bounds if the ball hits the top. On a square backboard, the ball can his the sides, or top as long as it doesn't his the supports, shot clock, or back of the board. That being said, I agree with the earlier post that the ball looked like it hit the shot clock live, but if you watch the replay and slowed it down, it never actually hit the clock.
    1. Did the ball hit anything that would render it out of bounds?
    2.If the ball did not hit anything that rendered it out of bounds, did the ball's path render it out of bounds?

    Thanks.
    Blueprofessor

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by hughgs View Post
    I don't know. I've always assumed, based on my break the plane idea, that if they bounce on the top of the backboard that the ball would be out of bounds.
    Unless the rules have changed, the top of the backboard is NOT out of bounds. The clock IS out of bounds. The ball either never hit the clock, or the referees just missed the call.

  9. #29
    The ball definitely hit the shot clock. You can see the spin of the ball stop briefly as it hits. It's pretty obvious. If someone else has ESPN360 or the game recorded, the play happens with 15:22 or so left in the first half.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Florida & Bozeman, Montana

    Thumbs up O---you are correct

    Quote Originally Posted by FireOgilvie View Post
    The 4 pt play occurred at 15:22, the technical on Hamilton was at 8:45 left to play in the first half. I doubt that is what Hamilton was complaining about.
    He may have been complaining about what he perceived to be an illegal screen or some other on-court action.

    Still, the bad-blood between Collins and Hamilton was the burning fuse.

    Thanks for the correction.

    Best regards--Blueprofessor

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    Unless the rules have changed, the top of the backboard is NOT out of bounds. The clock IS out of bounds. The ball either never hit the clock, or the referees just missed the call.
    OK, so then the clock/backboard rule follows the obstructed view idea. If the ball passes over an obstruction then it's considered a dead ball. But if the ball comes off the same side then it's live.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by hughgs View Post
    OK, so then the clock/backboard rule follows the obstructed view idea. If the ball passes over an obstruction then it's considered a dead ball. But if the ball comes off the same side then it's live.
    I'm pretty sure the clock itself is out of bounds.

    Again, IANAR.

    -jk

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