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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Inman, SC & Fort Myers, FL
    I agree with the thoughts expressed here about Henderson, but don't forget that Marty can also take to the hole. And if Thomas get some offense over the summer -- watch out!

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Toledo
    ^^After watching Marty's play against State in the ACC Tourney and his highlight reel dunk against VCU, I really hope he gets some major PT next season. To be honest, that dunk was really the only highlight of my March... The replays they showed of it throughout the remainder of the Tournament, however, gave me goosebumps every time. You could see just how much he loves representing Duke out there. And we need that energy out there on the court next season, especially after how 2007 turned out.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Inman, SC & Fort Myers, FL
    I don't wish injury or ill health on anyone, not even UNC, but it warmed my heart to hear that Marty had a problem and that it had been dealt with. I am very optimistic about next season. Only a little over six months until the start of practice!

  4. #24
    Right on

    I think with Singler and Henderson you have two players who both have the potential to be "special" using Coach K lingo (not ready to put Nolan Smith or Patrick Patterson in this category yet, but hope to be wrong). I am not saying they will be, but in order to get there, they need the minutes and opportunity to grow

    So I just hop eK realizes it is a rebuilding year next year, and Henderson and Singler get the most minutes on the team, are allowed to make mistakes as part of the learning process

    I love Nelson, he is a warrior, but if he needs to play less minutes to develop the younger guys, than so be it (same for McClure).

    I also think Scheyer while very solid, has limited upside, so also wouldn't mind if he lost minutes

    I guess what I am saying is that I hope K is really willing to sacrifice a few wins next year to capture the real prize the following year and the year after that

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Inman, SC & Fort Myers, FL
    I agree about Nelson, I think we have already seen the best he will be. I wonder about Scheyer, however. Redick started as a shooter and ended up a shooter and a scorer. Scheyer started this year as a scorer, but may have the potential to be a shooter as well. If he isn't special, he will at least be solid. I agree about Henderson and Singler (especially Henderson, who could be another Grant Hill, which is a lot).

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA

    We will be deeper

    Scheyer (33.7) and Nelson (31.9) both averaged over 30 mpg this past season. I expect both to play less minutes next year due to the late surge displayed by Gerald Henderson, Jr. and the talent level of the incoming freshman. This comment is not intended to be negative toward the contribution of Scheyer and Nelson (my favorite Blue Devil) but simply a statement that next year's team will be deeper. Scheyer and Nelson are both crucial to Duke's success in 07-08. A healthy Pocius also increases the competition for playing time. I will be suprised if anyone other than Paulus averages over 30 mpg.

    The player who should be most concerned with his PT is Dave McClure. Hopefully, he is shooting a 1000 jump shots a day in the off season because Gerald Henderson, Jr. is going to get some of his minutes and Nolan Smith and Taylor King are not going to sit on the bench while McClure averages 4.2 ppg in 21.7 mpg. If McClure doesn't learn to score he is going to sit.

    Bob Green
    Yokosuka, Japan

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Toledo
    and Nolan Smith and Taylor King are not going to sit on the bench
    Thank you. This is nothing against McClure, because I love the heart and intensity he shows as a player; he bleeds Duke Blue out there every night. But, I'm glad someone sees the potential King has for next season. He could be a wonderful scorer off the bench for us, a guy that could come in and hit two or three triples in a row when are starters are resting, which is exactly the kind of guy we needed all last year. Not too many people are giving him much of a chance to see the floor next season, or at least not a lot of the fellow Duke fans I have come across. But, I don't think they could be further from the truth. Taylor will be a key guy next season offensively. Not a 12 or 13 points per game scorer like Jon was, but he will be solid in that sniper's role from 20 to 25'

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wherever the wind blows and the leaves dance.

    McClure undervalued

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    The player who should be most concerned with his PT is Dave McClure. Hopefully, he is shooting a 1000 jump shots a day in the off season because Gerald Henderson, Jr. is going to get some of his minutes and Nolan Smith and Taylor King are not going to sit on the bench while McClure averages 4.2 ppg in 21.7 mpg. If McClure doesn't learn to score he is going to sit.
    I think McClure is the key to next year. I think he was the biggest suprise this past year. A healthy McClure gives Duke what they need the most, a frontcourt presence. He is tough, smart on the defensive end and really goes after it on the glass. Granted he needs to hit the open jumpers (he showed that at times) but I don't think offense is gong to be an issue with the returning guys next year. We need help in the frontcourt on defensise and rebounding. I think McClure is the best option that Duke currently has. I thought he did a good job on Hansborugh in Cameron. If you look at shooting percentages Mcclure and Henderson are about the same. While Henderson plays bigger than he is, he is only 6-4. Of course Henderson has more potentail but McClure is very savy and will be a red-shirt junior. I'd like to see both of Henderson and McClure get at least 20 minutes a game next year.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wherever the wind blows and the leaves dance.

    Regarding King

    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    Thank you. This is nothing against McClure, because I love the heart and intensity he shows as a player; he bleeds Duke Blue out there every night. But, I'm glad someone sees the potential King has for next season. He could be a wonderful scorer off the bench for us, a guy that could come in and hit two or three triples in a row when are starters are resting, which is exactly the kind of guy we needed all last year. Not too many people are giving him much of a chance to see the floor next season, or at least not a lot of the fellow Duke fans I have come across. But, I don't think they could be further from the truth. Taylor will be a key guy next season offensively. Not a 12 or 13 points per game scorer like Jon was, but he will be solid in that sniper's role from 20 to 25'
    I really would like to see Duke go in the other direction. Duke has alot of guys that can do damage off the dribble and are good passers with high basketball IQ's. Paulus, Scheyer, Nelson, Smith, Henderson, and Singler all fit that bill and have the possibility of giving the opponent's defense fits. I'd like to see Duke get back to attacking the rim, work the mid-range game, fast break, and sprinkle in the 3-pointer. The thought of King coming in cold off the bench and launching a barage of 25 footers doesn't make me long for next year. I'm also concerned about his foot speed and reaction time, though I'm intrigued by his rebounding potential.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Western North Carolina

    McClure

    I have never been a fan of McClure. I admit that he has great heart and tries hard, and bleeds Duke Blue. But he has limitations. Next Year, if he cannot shoot, and Dribble, and Pass, better than this year, he is a complete liability on Offense. This year, everytime he got the ball other than when he was point blank, I got scared. His decision making with the ball in his hands is sub par. When he is in, it is 4 vs 5 when we are on offense. His defender can slouch off and help defend other players. This leads to some open shots, but 4 ppg in 20 min is not sufficient to make up for being a man down on offense, especially when he his turnovers or bad decisions negate the points. His athleticism is limited. If he cannot shoot he is a liability.

    Yes, he plays good defense, and tries hard, but that is not enough. We expect more from him than he can deliver.

    For many years, Duke fans have searched, often in vain, for another Hurley, Hill, or Laetner, espeically the latter. Well, there is another player to add to that list: Battier. Everytime we see a scrappy player who hustles, D's up hard, and goes all out, we get giddy with visions of a new Battier. We did this with McClure and Boykin.

    Newsflash people, Shane was approximately 20-30% more gifted than either of those two players. Since Shane hustled, and was so nice, and loved Duke so much, we tend to forget that he was a 6-8, 230 lb player with good skills and above average athleticism. Boykin and Mclure are 6-7, 215 lb, sup par athletes who are not nearly as skilled as Battier.

    We may be loathe to admit it, but heart and hustle are not enough. If that was all it took, WoJo would be one of the greatest guards ever to play in the ACC (HE ISN'T). There has to be a baseline of ahtlecism, and neither of these guys have it. McClure is most valuable as a practice player and a guy who can provide a LIMITED NUMBER of minutes in order to rest superior players.

    I said last summer, that any team that relies on McClure for a big contribution is a team that is not going to be successful at the level Duke expects (competitive for the FF).

    I believe the team has a greater chance for success next march, and certainly beyond, if K plays King and LT more to develop them. It may cost a few wins early, but it will pay off late in the season.

    Also, the bit about Paulus and Smith is right on. We will see many 3 and 4 guard looks next year, especially without PP coming in.

    Patrick Yates

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wherever the wind blows and the leaves dance.

    McClure

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Yates View Post
    Newsflash people, Shane was approximately 20-30% more gifted than either of those two players. Since Shane hustled, and was so nice, and loved Duke so much, we tend to forget that he was a 6-8, 230 lb player with good skills and above average athleticism. Boykin and Mclure are 6-7, 215 lb, sup par athletes who are not nearly as skilled as Battier.

    I said last summer, that any team that relies on McClure for a big contribution is a team that is not going to be successful at the level Duke expects (competitive for the FF).
    I'm not sure I remember anyone comparing McClure to Battier. McClure came in as a role player whereas Battier came in as a much Ballyhooed star.

    I guess it all comes down to what Duke needs the most next year. Sure I'd like to see McClure take the ball to the hole more like Henderson but I'd settle for him to be the 5th option on offense and just hit the open jumper (which he showed some earlier in the year). But I don't think Duke needs another offensive weapon as much as they need a scrappy, defensive, glue type guy.

    For those who have pencilied in Henderson over McClure as a starter lets look at the stas from last year.

    Player\Mins\Points\Rebounds\Assists\Turnovers\Stea ls\Blocks

    Henderson\618\219\92\35\43\16\10

    McClure\716\138\163\18\41\39\24

    Keep in mind I'm looking at this from a frontcourt point of view. McClure had nearly twice as many rebounds as Henderson, more than twice as many steals and blocks. Henderson also had more turnovers in around 100 hundred less minutes than McClure, which goes somewhat against McClure being a turnover machine on the offensive side of the ball. Granted Henderson has more potential and should improve over the summer but don't give up on McClure. I think McClure was almost two different players last year. I think when he re-injured his reconstructed knee he lost alot of aggression and confidence. Before the injury he was all over the place and was hitting some open mid-range shots. After the injury he continued to battle but seemed to have lost somethning in his confidence and looked to pass pretty quickly on the offensive end. If McClure can stay healthy I can see him coming back to his pre-injury form and suprising more people with his solid play in an area that Duke needs some serious help in, the frontcourt.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    I agree that Dave's offense needs to improve for him to continue playing good minutes, but any loss of minutes will be due to Kyle Singler and not Taylor King.

    Dave was a part-time starter at the 4. Singler is a top-5 talent that will almost certainly play the 4 next season. Therefore, Dave will lose some minutes there to Kyle. However, I'd be willing to bet that Dave will still be ahead of both LT and King as the primary backup to Singler. Dave is a very good defender in Duke's system when healthy, and that's not something Coach K is going to overlook. And if Dave develops a bit of a jumpshot, I'll guarantee that he plays ahead of the other two.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wherever the wind blows and the leaves dance.

    Who's at the 5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I agree that Dave's offense needs to improve for him to continue playing good minutes, but any loss of minutes will be due to Kyle Singler and not Taylor King.

    Dave was a part-time starter at the 4. Singler is a top-5 talent that will almost certainly play the 4 next season. Therefore, Dave will lose some minutes there to Kyle. However, I'd be willing to bet that Dave will still be ahead of both LT and King as the primary backup to Singler. Dave is a very good defender in Duke's system when healthy, and that's not something Coach K is going to overlook. And if Dave develops a bit of a jumpshot, I'll guarantee that he plays ahead of the other two.
    Who do you at the 5? I think you go with McClure and Singler in the froncourt, sprinkling in Zoubek, Thomas, King. Whatever you do its going to be ugly on defense and rebounding. At least we should have some fouls to give.

  14. #34

    as well

    Some others have expressed being down on Scheyer, i'm not sure why, the kid had a good Fr year playing out of position alot. He's not a shooter as JJ was but i think he got the wrong label just cuz he bears a physical resemblance to JJ.
    I agree with BG about McClure, he needs to score more or he won't be playing as much as he did this past year. He's a nice player and he filled an important gap admirably last year but he must show more O to complement his fine D if we expect him to play in the 20+ min range. Winthai loves McClure apparently, and that's fine, but in your stat comparison you failed to notice that Henderson had 2x the Ast of McClure in fewer minutes and only +2TOs. They play different positions, so it's not a totally legit comparison anyway, but McClure is not a good ball-handler nor a particularly good decision-maker withe ball. The blocks and steals are nice, as was his high 3pt %, indicating that he was very selective about it, but also good selection. His low FT% however, is not a positive for a post guy. Your assertion that Duke has lots of guys that can do damage off the dribble is, IMHO, flat-out wrong. We had, as of last year, 2 guys that could do any damage off the dribble and one had some problems w/TOs and/or forcing himself into bad situations ('tho he did improve on this somewhat towards the end of the year) and the other played limited minutes, and b/c he was a Fr, didn't always make the best decisions withe ball. Marty woulda been a 3rd but didn't play enough to warrant that much consideration, i like what i see in him and i hope he plays a LOT more this year. This year may be different, i hope it is in terms of off-the-dribble play.
    Troublemaker, i don't think that the rotation will work quite the way you see it. I think that Singler/King/LT/McClure/Z will pretty much rotate through 2 positions, rather than one backing up the other, they'll all play together in some way or another. There's a whole lot of versatility in on-court presence by picking combinations of 2 of those 5, i wouldn't be surprised to see all of them start at some point in the year. However, i think Singler and King will also grab some minutes in away-from-the-rim positions that LT/McClure/Z really won't get. I think PG is pretty much set with Paulus starting and Nolan resting him sometimes, sometimes both will play together. Nelson/Scheyer/Nolan/Henderson/Pocius will all play either 2 gaurd or a hybird 2-3 guard at times and other than Pocius, don't be surprised to see all of them start at some point next year. I see a whole lot of versatility from these guys and i can easily see K experimenting with lots of different starting lineups and in-game line-ups, especially early. I certainly expect the rotation to tighten up a lot around the half-way point of the ACC season. Of course K is a HOF coach and i'm just some guy posting on a message board, so by the time the season rolls around K might have a totally different vision of what these guys can handle and what they're gonna do.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by whereinthehellami View Post
    Who do you at the 5? I think you go with McClure and Singler in the froncourt, sprinkling in Zoubek, Thomas, King. Whatever you do its going to be ugly on defense and rebounding. At least we should have some fouls to give.
    I see Zoubek and Thomas splitting time at the 5. While I don't doubt that a small lineup with Singler at the 5 will be played at times, I'm hoping that Zoubek or Thomas will be occupying the 5 the majority of the game (say, 25 minutes vs 15 minutes of smallball [Singler at the 5], or 30 vs 10).

  16. #36
    Zoubek just needs to not get the ball on OFFENSE

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by JJweMISSu View Post
    Zoubek just needs to not get the ball on OFFENSE
    Actually, his greatest asset to Duke over the next three years should be his postscoring. I know he didn't really demonstrate that after the early part of the season (B-W game, first few games), but that's his strength. I don't know if he's ever going to be comfortable playing Duke's defense but he can score if developed properly.

  18. #38

    Nelson

    I think people undervalue DeMarcus Nelson a lot as well. I was somewhat disappointed with him this season, but hardly think he has peaked. He has shown that he has as much explosive athletic ability as anyone on the team. He is capable of playing great defense. He has shown the ability to improve his jumpshot and could do this with other parts of his game as well.

    So far he has disappointing when it comes to creating his shot and being a reliable go to guy on offense. This doesn't mean that he won't be great at this next year. He certainly has the ability. It's strange that people want to throw away the contributions of an extremely talented senior when last year's team suffered with a lack of seniors. I think that the team should and will rely heavily on contributions from DeMarcus this year. Hopefully he can make a senior year emergence as a star in a way similar to Roshown McLeod, Chris Carrawell, or Dahntay Jones.

    It is foolish to hope that Nolan Smith will unseat Paulus or that Demarcus will fall out of the starting lineup. People always want the unknown future at the expense of the present, but this team will only be really good if led by upperclassmen with experience. These upperclassman have as much talent as anyone coming in hopefully will excel.

  19. #39

    Is deeper an opportunity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    Scheyer (33.7) and Nelson (31.9) both averaged over 30 mpg this past season. I expect both to play less minutes next year due to the late surge displayed by Gerald Henderson, Jr. and the talent level of the incoming freshman. This comment is not intended to be negative toward the contribution of Scheyer and Nelson (my favorite Blue Devil) but simply a statement that next year's team will be deeper. Scheyer and Nelson are both crucial to Duke's success in 07-08. A healthy Pocius also increases the competition for playing time. I will be suprised if anyone other than Paulus averages over 30 mpg.

    The player who should be most concerned with his PT is Dave McClure. Hopefully, he is shooting a 1000 jump shots a day in the off season because Gerald Henderson, Jr. is going to get some of his minutes and Nolan Smith and Taylor King are not going to sit on the bench while McClure averages 4.2 ppg in 21.7 mpg. If McClure doesn't learn to score he is going to sit.

    Bob Green
    Yokosuka, Japan

    The real depth of the team will be at the guard position, yet most of the stronger tounament teams were also very solid with the bigs. Florida was especially solid inside, with 5 players 6'9" or bigger and most were physically imposing.

    So we will have Nelson, Paulus, Scheyer, Henderson, Pocius and Smith splitting time. I see the guards at the beginning of the season starting Paulus, Nelson and Scheyer with Henderson as the frequent sub for Nelson and/or Scheyer. Smith is likely to sub for Nelson or Paulus and Pocius may have developed to a point where he will deserve additional PT. A very deep lineup.

    On the other hand, for bigs we will almost certainly play Singler at least 30 min. I can see Singler as more of a high post player. That leaves Zoubek, Thomas, McClure and King to fill in at the low post and time not taken by Singler. If Patterson comes, he will also get substantial playing time. He is a little small for the 5 but probably could handle it. It is a hard call at this time to identify the best arrangement and that will have to await the decision of PP and also to see how Thomas and Zoubek have developed.

  20. #40
    I still think if we had an adequate big man coach we could teach Zoubek how to not travel when he gets the ball. After his preseason performance it is hard for me to imagine that he is not coordinated enough to be taught. I hope a summer of lifting and working on the fundamentals will pay off for him. At the end of the season I think if we left McClure and Thomas in the gym by themselves it would have taken a while for them to score 20 points.

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