Singler's elbow on Hansbrough

[brianl]

I'm interested to see what people's take on Singler's elbow to Hansbrough at the beginning of the second half.

Singler's a great player, but frankly I thought it was intentional and just a notch above a "cheap shot." The technical was an appropriate call. While it wasn't a game deciding moment, it cut the lead in half. Plus, the 3 or 4 minute "group hug" didn't help in the game's flow already.

And while I don't know the kid personally, I don't remember in 4 years Hansbrough doing anything like that against a Duke player.

[Matches]

It wasn't our finest moment - but as we speak I'm playing the world's tiniest violin for poor Hanstravel.

[Wander]

I have no idea why people are saying this was a huge turning point in the game. We had an 8 point lead before it happened, and we had an 8 point lead again about one minute after it happened.

[Fish80]

The elbow looked bad, but it's hard to know if it was intentional.

Singler was trying to pull the ball out of the pile, and if his hand slipped off of the ball, the elbow could have been accidental. We just don't know.

I applaud Tyler for showing restraint and handling it with dignity.

[brumby041]

As I posted in the post-game thread (sorry - I don't know how to pull a post from another thread into this one), I disagree with the "intentional" argument. It looked to me like he kept going after the whistle to secure the ball and his arm slipped. Exacerbating the situation was yet another Emmy-award winning performance from Hans to draw attention to the contact. (Yes, Hans is good at that sort of thing. For example, consider the flop, I mean charge, that he drew on Paulus a few minutes later. Either GP is the strongest man alive, or Hans is looking for an acting career once he figures out that his histrionics won't work in the League. Minor contact from a 6', 200lb guy sent him FLYING 25 ft.)

That said, the tech was the right call.
1. Elbow to the face = foul
2. Whistle had already blown for the jump ball.
3. Dead ball foul = T

[On a somewhat snarky note, I was waiting for Hans to jump up with tears in his eyes and his lower lip trembling like my 5 year old...ah well.]

[BlueDevilJay]

I could see it as a turning point. From that point on, it seemed to me like we lost our momentum, and in the college game, momentum plays a huge role in a game, just ask EA Sports! Seriously though, I'm trying to figure out if it was intentional or not...Looked to me at one time like he was still trying to rake the ball out, 2nd look appeared like he did it on purpose. I've noticed alot more recently Singler getting a bit 'chippy' with some of the things he does on the court...has anyone else noticed this?

[VAGentleman05]

I have no idea why people are saying this was a huge turning point in the game. We had an 8 point lead before it happened, and we had an 8 point lead again about one minute after it happened.

I agree that it wasn't really a game-changing moment. It was simply an extra personal on Singler (who wasn't really in foul trouble) and just 2 points for the Holes. Duke even got the ball back after the FTs on the alternating possession.

I do think it was a pretty dirty play, though. Guys in the ACC have been ejected for much less over the past couple years. In fact, this looked a lot more intentional to me than Henderson's hard foul on Hansbrough a couple years ago.

[RepoMan]

There is no way we can know whether throwing the elbow was accidental or intentional. It simply is impossible to know what was in his mind.

In any event, even if it was intention, I very much doubt that the intent was to connect with face. He was trying to secure the ball.

Technical foul was the right call.

It was in no shape or form a turning point. The half had just started. I don't think it had any effect on emotion. There was no foul trouble issue.

I expect to be hearing from Heels at work momentarily, and I will be surprised if they are upset about it.

[VAGentleman05]

There is no way we can know whether throwing the elbow was accidental or intentional. It simply is impossible to know what was in his mind.

In any event, even if it was intention, I very much doubt that the intent was to connect with face. He was trying to secure the ball.

Technical foul was the right call.

You're right that he didn't know he was going to hit anyone in the face, as he wasn't looking behind him. I think the problem was that this occurred a couple seconds after the whistle blew for the held ball. It's never acceptable to throw blind elbows behind your head, but it's not even helpful to do so after the play is over.

For the record, I think the technical was the right call as well. I'm not saying he should have been ejected; I just notice that others have been tossed for very similar incidents.

[longtimefan]

You're right that he didn't know he was going to hit anyone in the face, as he wasn't looking behind him. I think the problem was that this occurred a couple seconds after the whistle blew for the held ball. It's never acceptable to throw blind elbows behind your head, but it's not even helpful to do so after the play is over.

For the record, I think the technical was the right call as well. I'm not saying he should have been ejected; I just notice that others have been tossed for very similar incidents.

I think ejections also may be based on what the player says right after and during or before it occurs.if there was no indication of him being aggressive they may have not viewed it that way .plus his back was turned.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

Looked to me like he threw a bow with no regard or care for what exactly he was making contact with... So saying he "didn't mean to make contact with someones face" isn't the best of arguments if you are saying he threw the elbow on purpose.

Kyles a human - he plays as hard as anyone - and when your playing as hard as he does people knock you around - you get mad - and sometimes you retaliate when you probably shouldn't.

[Matches]

For the record, I think the technical was the right call as well. I'm not saying he should have been ejected; I just notice that others have been tossed for very similar incidents.

Including the Miami player whose name I can't remember, against us last weekend.

[allenmurray]

It's never acceptable to throw blind elbows behind your head, but it's not even helpful to do so after the play is over.

For the record, I think the technical was the right call as well. I'm not saying he should have been ejected; I just notice that others have been tossed for very similar incidents.

That is my understanding - that since the foul occurred in a dead ball situation it was ruled a technical. Had the officials considered it an purposeful elbow to the face it either would have been an intentional or a flagrant or an ejection (or some combination thereof).

[Aziggazoomba]

A Tar Heel here. Apologies for the trespass.

I was curious to see what Duke folks' impressions of The Elbow were, and I'm impressed to see the fairness and objectivity in the part of most of the posters on this topic.

I agreed with K---your guys played a really good game (and I really thought the Heels were in trouble when the lead was cut to 8 and it started raining 3's). That was a (typically) nice comeback attempt (and the Raycom announcers called it WAY too soon).

Gotta make one last point---can't help it. One of you folks ragged on Hansbrough for dramatizing the effect of The Elbow. Come on! That was hardly any reaction at all---I think your objectivity is badly impaired. And if you want to talk about flopping/acting? I don't think you really want to go there, do you?

Anyway, good game and I'm sure the rematch in Chapel Hill will be another one for the ages.

Go Heels.

[allenmurray]

Gotta make one last point---can't help it. One of you folks ragged on Hansbrough for dramatizing the effect of The Elbow. Come on! That was hardly any reaction at all---I think your objectivity is badly impaired. And if you want to talk about flopping/acting? I don't think you really want to go there, do you?

He did not dramatize the effect of the elbow - an elbow to the face hurts.

but either Hansbrough is very strong (what UNC folks usually say about him) or he is not. He is 6"9" and about 260 lbs. If having Greg Paulus run into you at less than full speed causes you to fall to the floor and slide 20 feet either you are not very big and strong, or you are acting. You can't have it both ways.

[Highlander]

A Tar Heel here. Apologies for the trespass.

I was curious to see what Duke folks' impressions of The Elbow were, and I'm impressed to see the fairness and objectivity in the part of most of the posters on this topic.

I agreed with K---your guys played a really good game (and I really thought the Heels were in trouble when the lead was cut to 8 and it started raining 3's). That was a (typically) nice comeback attempt (and the Raycom announcers called it WAY too soon).

Gotta make one last point---can't help it. One of you folks ragged on Hansbrough for dramatizing the effect of The Elbow. Come on! That was hardly any reaction at all---I think your objectivity is badly impaired. And if you want to talk about flopping/acting? I don't think you really want to go there, do you?

Anyway, good game and I'm sure the rematch in Chapel Hill will be another one for the ages.

Go Heels.

Welcome to the boards. Hope you'll stay and play nice like a lot of the other fans who post here.

Actually, I think the flop was a very good thing for Duke fans, and I want to thank Hansbrough for his performance last night. As a result, UNC fans have now lost any ability to criticize Duke for taking flops on the charge for the immediate future IMO. After having to listen to it for years, it's going to be rather refreshing to respond to any catcalls by calling out one of their own.

We do it, but last night shows that you guys now do it too. You know what they say about imitation...

As for dramatizing the effects of the elbow, I don't think he did, but given his acting prowise on drawing charges he's certainly capable.

[banneheim]

I think Singler made the mistake, you just don't put your team in that situation. I know emotions run high, but part of being a mature player, you control those emotions. I felt it did have an impact on the game and flow. You pick up a personal foul, game is stopped and other team gets two points, refs call it more closely, etc...Let's learn and move on...

[VAGentleman05]

Including the Miami player whose name I can't remember, against us last weekend.

DeQuan Jones. That's one of the cases I had in mind, but I didn't want to incur too much wrath here. I agree with the Tar Heel, though: the analysis around here is impressively objective. Last night was the first time I actually made it to a Duke/UNC game in Cameron (#34 in the walk-up line, baby!), and I was very impressed with the game that Duke played for the first 30+ minutes. Lawson and UNC were just unbeatable down the stretch.

[whereinthehellami]

The elbow was intentional but hitting the face wasn't. Hanny was all over him from behind. I love that Singler has a nasty streak and that he doesn't back down to anyone. But he has to be smarter and pick his spots better. Teams are going to start baiting him.

[Master Shake]

I consider myself as objective a Duke fan as they come (respect Carolina, think Dantay Jones' on the court behavior was uncool, etc.) but the elbow didn't look intentional at all to me. Based on the replays, looked to me like he was trying to get power to rip the ball out and his hand slipped off/missed the ball.