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  1. #41
    Someone said to stop harping on the reliance on jumpshooting thing. Well, let's look at foul shooting. Duke went 11-18 (62%), UNC went 27-31 (88%). We lost by 14. We lost the free throw battle by 16. There's your difference right there.

    These are battles in years past we won every game, even when we weren't world beaters. We've GOT to get more aggressive on our drives and get to the line more.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Besides the positively ridiculous, ludicrous technical foul call, I felt the turning point occurred at the 11 minute mark of the 2nd half. Scheyer had a completely wide open 3, clanked it, Lance grabbed the board, clanked the put back. We looked completely deflated from there.

    Lawson crushed us. The announcers (specifically G-Man) kept harping on UNC's balanced effort but Ty Lawson's effort alone completely destroyed us. We simply had no answer for them. I really didn't think Carolina's defense was all that great in the 2nd (it was terrible in the 1st), our guys just couldn't hit any open looks from deep (which was necessary for a win). Gerald was visibly winded in the 2nd so that may have had something to do with it.

    I disagree with the general notion that we can't hang with these guys b/c we have nothing in the post. If you paid attention it was Lawson that completely schooled us and we seem to have less of an answer for him there anywhere else on the floor.

    Back to the tech which put a huge kink into any existing momentum. That was yet another case of the refs feeling like they just have to call something especially considering who was involved with it. Everyone knows Kyle is not some retaliating kind of player. It's 100% obvious he's trying to pry the ball away which takes his elbow to Tyler's noggin. Nothing even close to maliciousness on that play, but instead the tech. Positively ridiculous. Not at all something that determined the outcome of the game, but a pathetic call nonetheless.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    ANYBODY, who says that Paulus did worse on Lawson than Nolan simply DID NOT watch the game. Lawson blew by both players numerous times. Neither pg defended him better than the other. Seriously, it didn't matter who was on him.
    I also didn't think Nolan was much better than Greg.

    Actually, I thought our most effective defender on Lawson was Dave, when he found himself on switches on Lawson.

    Dave has that defensive stance where his feet are way back, leaning forward, ready to quickly retreat if Lawson drives or lunge toward Lawson for a hand in the face if he shoots, and Dave's length and quickness make him effective in that situation.

  4. #44
    Say what you want about our jump shot relying offense but we still scored 87 points and most nights that'll be good enough. We went cold in the second half. I think we can beat these guys but we need to worry about improving in the final month of the season. We can be a hell of a team in March.

    Paulus' first half shooting was a big boost and he did offer us a great chance to win. We just couldn't stop Lawson. I like the idea of Zoub getting more burn in spots. I think the score wasn't a true indication of how well we did play the first 30 minutes.

    The DUI chant on Lawson was tremendous btw.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Ugh.

    Difference in this game was the discrepancy in FTs, and not because of the officiating. We settled for jump shots instead of trying to get into the paint.

    I will say that 31 FTAs vs. 18 is a bit overkill, though, even with a more aggressively driving team. Most of the UNC FTs were after they went into the bonus EARLY in the 2nd half. It was 9 fouls to 3 at one point.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    ALSO: I hate to second guess K, but I would have liked to see Z in there a lot more. They were getting layup after layup (especially lawson) and a big man inside would at least make them think twice. This is rare for me, because I almost never second guess K on who did or didn't play, but I think that might have been a mistake on his part.
    If Z had been in the game, Hans or Thompson would have driven on him all day. I think it's a pick your poison: with Z, maybe you can keep Lawson from getting to the rack, but then Carolina's just gonna try to draw him out of the paint, or else keep switching until Z is on Lawson. At least with McClure, you don't have a completely unreasonable match-up with any of the 5 Duke players on the floor guarding Lawson. That said, Lawson went off on us even when Z was out. Ugh!

  7. #47
    Our 9 fouls to their 3 weren't very pleasant.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Poptart View Post
    Kinda sucks to see the preseason magazines proven right. When people looked at this game before the season, there's just a talent differential. We were picked No. 2 in the ACC and right now that looks about right. Nothing wrong with that: it would be a nice accomplishment and we have a chance to go deep into the tourney.

    All in all, we have talent, we played hard, the crowd was great, we showed heart.

    But the weight of Carolina's insane recruiting is showing on the court. We need another reliable scorer, a world-class point guard and a serious inside beast.
    You nailed it, IMHO, Capn Poptart, we played with heart, but as George Will once said, "Rooting all my life for the Chicago Cubs taught me that sincerity is no substitute for ability." Carolina has more talent, they are well coached and they also play with heart. A friend asked why have they lost games, and I think the answer is that they don't always have to play their best. They had to tonight, a credit to Duke and the rivalry, and their A game beat our A game. I am glad that Duke played with heart. After Clemson, I wondered whether this team had enough heart to withstand all it faced. Not to win, but to not give up. Tonight was a good step in the right direction. Go Duke!

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Tough to watch that 2nd half. I for one still don't know how someone Hansbrough's size can get pushed 15 feet by someone Paulus' size. For all the talk about Duke players being floppers Hansbrough is the worst I have seen in 25 years.

  10. #50
    The technical was a call that had to be made, even though I agree that it wasn't intentional. It's a technical because it was during the dead ball. I thought Hansbrough got away with knocking a couple guys to the ground during play going for rebounds, and if we'd gotten one or two of those calls, he might have fouled out.

    I thought the real back breaker was when we were trying to mount the comeback, played GREAT defense for 35 seconds, looked like we were going to get the ball back, and then Hansbrough drained the 26 footer. I thought that was what pretty much ended any chance we had of coming back.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jyuwono View Post
    Relative to other top teams, we do not have a consistent, high percentage way of generating offense.
    We scored 87 points and gave up 101. Do you really think the problem was we couldn't generate offense?

    In the first half our defense managed to contain Lawson and in the second half we didn't. That was the ballgame. True, we could have stayed close despite our poor second half defense if we'd managed to hit 30% of our 3-pointers in the 2nd half, but that doesn't change the fact that we lost because of defense, pure and simple.

    However, I don't think there's such as huge a talent differential as many people are saying. Lawson is a great talent, true, but so is Henderson. Hansbrough has talent, but so does Singler. Ditto for Ellington and Scheyer. When you're down to comparing Green, Thompson, Davis, and Frasor with Paulus, McClure, Smith, Thomas, and Zoubek, I'd say they have an edge but it's not so outrageous that we were grossly outtalented. We were just outplayed.

    And as far as the elbow, I don't think his hand slipped off the ball, but I don't think he was trying to hit anybody. I think he was trying to get his arm free of the melee and he didn't realize where Hansbrough was.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Durham/Boston
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
    I would call it reckless, not intentional. Kyle was looking the other way.

    That was one of those tie-ups that drive me crazy, when the opposing player reaches from behind with both arms around the player with the ball and the officials still call a jump ball.

    If Kyle was a little quicker, he could have flipped the ball away to a teammate before the call. He'll kick himself when he sees the replay.
    I don't have the benefit of a replay but the play happened right in front of me and there was no doubt in my mind that Kyle was trying to strip the ball and just couldn't get a good handle on it.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Duke just does not have the talent. Pure and simple. They have a lot of heart, but only 3 guys who are good on both sides of the court. We all know who those 3 guys are. Everyone else has serious deficiencies on offense, defense, or both. After watching many old Duke-UNC games on ESPN classic over the last few days, this team most closely resembles the Duke teams of the mid-1990s. Sweet 16 caliber teams at best. If Henderson and Singler stay we will be in better shape next year, but if one of them leaves, things aren't looking good. The recruiting has got to improve.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Washington/Baltimore
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Our 9 fouls to their 3 weren't very pleasant.
    Especially the one where LT fouled Hans on the elbow with his face.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Our 9 fouls to their 3 weren't very pleasant.
    Agreed. While most of the game's officiating was good, the first 10 minutes or so of the 2nd half was atrocious and inconsistent. It went from ticky tack to "let em play" at a whim. And seeing a 260lb player go flying when a 200lb player nudges him and GETS THE CALL drives me batty, especially when that 200lb player gets ran over on a constant basis without getting the same call.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulu View Post
    Yeah, does anyone here actually think that wasn't intentional? I found it completely unforgivable, even at the time. Unless Tyler was giving him a hidden purple nurple under there or something that was just uncalled for. Looked nothing like a "slip" of the hand to me.
    Look at it again, and concentrate on what he was trying to do at the time.

    His hand slipped off the ball while he was trying to pop it out of the tie-up. I'm not saying it was smart or a good play (it was after the whistle), but you don't actually think he was intentionally trying to elbow Hansborough in the face, do you?

    Edit to add: The technical was a correct call, however. Intentional or not, you can't allow players to keep going after the whistle and if a player is struck in a situation like htat, you're going to call a foul on the guy who struck him.
    Last edited by Johnboy; 02-12-2009 at 12:09 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tag

  17. #57
    I have no idea why Williams opted to go with Drew so much in the first half. With Lawson in the game UNC scored 30 points in the first 10 minutes of the game. I think they had less than 5 posessions in that time where they didn't come away with points. Then he put in Drew and we made our run and started to get a rhythm going. By the time Lawson came back in, we had a 6-8 point lead and basically traded baskets for the rest of the half. With Drew in the game, we had a good chance. With Lawson, not so much.

    I thought UNC was looking gassed, and being at home with a deeper bench and the Crazies meant that would work to our advantage. Instead we were the ones who looked gassed in the 2H, as all our shots came off short. Overall, I thought we looked OK on offense in the second half except for the stretch where we kept falling/slipping/getting tripped and turning the ball over. When we did get a shot, it was usually a 3 and it was usually short. First half we were 6-9, at one point in the second we were 2-12. We may not score a large portion of our shots from the 3, but we are most certainly a jump shooting team.

    It's hard to say we played good defense in the second half, especially since we gave up something like 57 points. That's more than MD scored the entire game. In K's postgame he said "We're not a good enough team to beat them when they are playing that well." In order for us to have won, we needed them to be a little off, and they weren't.

    The only silver lining is that we still have a shot at sending Tyler off with a loss and a 1-3 record against us in the Ding Dong.
    "There can BE only one."

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO.
    Tough one to take because it means Duke has lost four straight to the Heels in Cameron. Not pleased about that.

    Further, this game was somewhat of a microcosm of this Duke team. It displayed the strengths and weaknesses of this team in great detail. For 10 minutes in the first half we were the best team in the country. Running and gunning and forcing the Heels to take bad shots just to keep up. Once the shots stopped falling the gunning ceased to occur and the Heels settled into a nice offensive rhythm. Duke just doesn't have an answer for that.

    If this team gets white hot in March, look out. If it doesn't, it will lose to better basketball teams. There's no shame in that.

    And, FWIW, the elbow was intentional, IMO. Whether he meant to hit TH, I'm not sure. But elbows don't just fly back unintentionally.

  19. #59

    Well...

    I think we can agree that this is a good team with some inherent contradictions. They don't score much in the paint, but at 33.6% they're not a great three-point shooting team either. To win against top-quality opponents they have to play lock-down defense, but they don't have the ball pressure that they need to beat top teams with quick, penetrating guards.

    Fortunately, they have shown signs of getting out of their collective shooting slump, but it hasn't happened for the entire 40 minutes in the last few games.

    At the start of the season I thought that the Zoubek-Thomas-Plumlee troika would do well, but that hasn't happened, which is a shame. We may need another year for Miles to develop into a major contributor.

    Finally, after seeing it several times, I would say that the Singler foul wasn't flagrant, but it sure looked intentional to me. That elbow was flying.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    I disagree with the general notion that we can't hang with these guys b/c we have nothing in the post. If you paid attention it was Lawson that completely schooled us and we seem to have less of an answer for him there anywhere else on the floor.

    If we have Shelden/Brand/Whoever in the low post, Lawson doesn't get a free layup, but instead gets a face full of ball. A good low post player COMPLETELY changes Lawson's impact on this game.

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