MBB: UNC 101 - Duke 87 Post-Game Thread

[RelativeWays]

Carolina would be such a different team without Lawson. Damn, I wish he'd gone pro.

Next season you get your wish, along with two, possibly 3 other players as an added bonus.

[bjornolf]

I thought a big factor in the last five minutes of the game was the floor itself. It seemed like EVERYBODY was slipping and falling for a while there, but when we did it, it turned out bad (open shots for them, turnover for us, etc.), while when they did it, something good seemed to happen for them (managed a pass to an open person, hit the shot, refs blow the whistle and stop play to prevent a runout, etc.). It was just one of those situations where all the bounces went to them in that short span. I'm not calling a conspiracy, or saying we win the game if not for the floor, but I think we'd be talking about a 5-8 point game going into the last minute instead of 12-14. And that's a HUGE difference. We might have had a shot in that situation. Ah, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. I guess I'm just saying I could stomach an 5 point loss better than a 14 point one. I thought the game was a lot closer than that before everybody started slipping and sliding, and by that, I'm not talking about the score so much as the quality of play of both teams.

And I thought the elbow was unintentional. His hand had slipped off the ball twice already, and the third time, he was pulling harder, so it just came off harder and went farther. There was no bunching of the bicep muscle or acceleration through the blow like the one Paulus got against Miami. He was just pulling at the ball. It was stupid, as the whistle had already blown and he should have stopped, but it wasn't an intentional blow, IMHO.

The shots that were falling in the first half weren't in the second, and we weren't getting any offensive rebounds. It's as simple as that. I was encouraged by how much heart and fight the guys showed though. I think that will help us in the weeks to come. There was no give like against Clemson.

[jv001]

It's hard to figure out. Are we this bad or is unc this good. I figure unc is not as good as the score looked and we may be as bad as the score looked. We absolutely had no answer for lawson. Paulus was just plain awful trying to guard lawson in the 2nd half. unc got most of their offense off his drives to the basket. Even McClure had trouble guarding him. Nolan did the best job but he still struggles running the team. Lance and Zoubek made a few good plays but made some bad ones as well. In the 2nd half we again reverted to jacking up 3's and when they didn't fall we were doomed. We have 7 games left and two of them are at home. We could easily go 2 & 5 if we don't improve at the 1 and 5 positions. Go Duke!

[Capn Poptart]

Kinda sucks to see the preseason magazines proven right. When people looked at this game before the season, there's just a talent differential. We were picked No. 2 in the ACC and right now that looks about right. Nothing wrong with that: it would be a nice accomplishment and we have a chance to go deep into the tourney.

All in all, we have talent, we played hard, the crowd was great, we showed heart.

But the weight of Carolina's insane recruiting is showing on the court. We need another reliable scorer, a world-class point guard and a serious inside beast.

[OldSchool]

Yeah, does anyone here actually think that wasn't intentional? I found it completely unforgivable, even at the time. Unless Tyler was giving him a hidden purple nurple under there or something that was just uncalled for. Looked nothing like a "slip" of the hand to me.

I would call it reckless, not intentional. Kyle was looking the other way.

That was one of those tie-ups that drive me crazy, when the opposing player reaches from behind with both arms around the player with the ball and the officials still call a jump ball.

If Kyle was a little quicker, he could have flipped the ball away to a teammate before the call. He'll kick himself when he sees the replay.

[geraldsneighbor]

15 turnovers and Lawson playing as he did in the second half is tough. Our offense lost its flow in the second half. It is going to be ok. Duke is still improving. A win in February can only go so far. Time to not make anymore of this then it is. Its one game, BC sunday and its all different next week. Keep in mind we have had to play alot of really tough games in a short stretch. Hopefully we can rack up some wins here late in the season.

[jimmymax]

At the beginning of the season, I thought Duke was an Elite Eight team. As we piled up wins in dominating fashion -- with incredibly efficient offense and defense -- I thought we were a Final Four team. Now, I can see how we could lose a Sweet Sixteen match-up. It's not just because we lost to UNC or Clemson...but it's the realization that we rely so much on the jumpshot

Relative to other top teams, we do not have a consistent, high percentage way of generating offense. Some ways of getting a consistent offense: fast breaks, forcing turnovers (e.g. via press), dominant post player, or a player who can penetrate at will. We don't really have any of those. Our pressure D is great against teams with poor guards, but in the NCAA tournament we'll see teams with good guards. We don't have a dominant post player. Henderson and Smith have the ability to penetrate, but they hardly do. Bottom line, when our jumpshot is not falling, we struggle. I understand that if you can maintain a top tier defense, you can minimize the ups and downs of the jumpshot; but in the lose-and-you're-done nature of the NCAA tournament, where we will be playing against other good teams, our defense may not carry us far enough when we shoot horribly.

If you think about why UNC is a consensus preseason #1 and still considered by most with the best chance to win the whole thing, they have a lot of those factors: they use the fast break often; they have a dominant post player in Hansbrough (Thompson and Davis are also quite good); and they have a guard that can penetrate at will in Lawson. On top of those things they have several capable shooters. It's no wonder their offense is one of the best in the nation...their defense just has to be adequate for them to win games, and it's not hard to make that extra effort to step up your defense in big games.

If our jumpshots are falling, we can beat any team in the nation. And while I expect us to get at least to the Sweet Sixteen, every game after is going to be a jumpshot coin toss.

Bingo. Eerily familiar, like Groundhog Day.

[brumby041]

Yeah, does anyone here actually think that wasn't intentional? I found it completely unforgivable, even at the time. Unless Tyler was giving him a hidden purple nurple under there or something that was just uncalled for. Looked nothing like a "slip" of the hand to me.

p.s. I still consider Henderson's elbow an accident, albeit perhaps a little reckless.

Disagree. I thought that it looked unintentional.

However, the call was correct, IMHO. Since the whistle had already blown for the tie-up, the elbow was a dead-ball foul. Couldn't be a personal foul, it had to be called a technical. It also appeared that the players thought that it was unintentional.

It did seem to deflate the team. End of story.

Additional thought: The elbow might not even have been very hard. After all, GP sent Hans FLYING a few minutes later (when God's Gift to Basketball drew the "charge").

[jv001]

The elbow was clearly UNINTENTIONAL. Anyone who suggest it wasn't is either blind or something worse.

You are 100% correct. If you recorded the game like I did just run the play and you can see Kyle's hand slipped off the ball and his elbow him hanstravel in his pumpkin head. Go Duke!

[geraldsneighbor]

Disagree. I thought that it looked unintentional.

However, the call was correct, IMHO. Since the whistle had already blown for the tie-up, the elbow was a dead-ball foul. Couldn't be a personal foul, it had to be called a technical. It also appeared that the players thought that it was unintentional.

It did seem to deflate the team. End of story.

Additional thought: The elbow might not even have been very hard. After all, GP sent Hans FLYING a few minutes later (when God's Gift to Basketball drew the "charge").

Haha, so true. I know it was a big play but it wasn't like Duke didn't have time to respond. There were still 19 minutes left and a 6 point lead. It is what it is. We will bounce back.

[Ian]

Groundhog day because although the names have changed, the composition of the team hasn't really changed, we have a bunch of wing forwards and wing guards.

They're pretty good wing players. But a complete team needs more than just wing players.

[Edouble]

Yeah, does anyone here actually think that wasn't intentional?

I thought it was. Hanstravel's hand was somewhere under Kyle's butt, then it came flying out, around and over Kyle. Kyle did a little box out. He was probably hoping to catch some part of Hanstravel--I'm not so sure that he minded much that it was his face, but c'mon, he was on the floor, on his side, sprawling around, with Hanstravel behind him. He couldn't be aiming directly for the guy's face.

I wish we had a little more ball reversal. I felt like there was a little in the first half, but the ball rarely if ever went inside in the second. I don't necessarily think that whoever gets it has to make a move to the basket, but it seems like our ball movement has the tendency to get stale, and we just pass it around the perimeter with perimeter screening. I know that Henderson, McClure, and Singler can get the ball inside for a second. It's a good way to get the ball over to the weak side fast, not that I don't think Coach K knows what he's doing.

I also felt like there were times when Henderson could drive into the paint, into the heart of the Carolina D, but he would just pull back. I also thought maybe he stopped driving as much in the second half, because when the D collapsed on him and he kicked it out, whoever got it didn't get rid of it, or drive fast enough, and the defense just reset. Frustrating for him, I'm sure.

[OldSchool]

It did seem to deflate the team. End of story.

Coach K just made a similar point in his press conference on ESPN News (Jay Williams holding court as commentator). K said they need to be a little more mature because the team allowed that delay to prompt a lapse in concentration.

[BlueintheFace]

Lawson blew by Paulus and almost faked Nolan out of his shoes a few times. Nobody was stopping him tonight.

For me, the game pretty much came down to a 4 minute stretch in the second half where everything seemed to go wrong. we missed like 5 open threes in a row, loose balls seemed to always go off of us out of bounds or land right in a tarheel lap, and some unfortunate calls were made. A 4 point game turned in to a huge deficit in that time period, and there was no coming back from it.

We just got beat by the frontrunner for the title... and I believe we can beat them with a little luck. I don't feel too bad.

ALSO: I hate to second guess K, but I would have liked to see Z in there a lot more. They were getting layup after layup (especially lawson) and a big man inside would at least make them think twice. This is rare for me, because I almost never second guess K on who did or didn't play, but I think that might have been a mistake on his part.

[HDB]

Paulus was just plain awful trying to guard lawson in the 2nd half. unc got most of their offense off his drives to the basket.

I agree that Paulus was awful on Lawson and thought K stayed with him too long in that run when it got away from us. It will be interesting to see if Paulus continues to start. As much as I love Paulus's heart and emotion I still think Smith playing well gives us the best chance to be a really good team.

[RaineyDevil]

Carolina is good, but as we showed in the first half...they are also vulnerable on the defensive end. Ty Lawson is the best point guard in the ACC and we just dont have a good match up for him. Nolan is quick and can guard the ball, but there just arent many people in the country that are going to have an effect on Lawson's game.

Carolina's vulnerlability on defense could be interesting come March. If they are matched up with an offense such as OU that can score just as easily as Carolina...then that could spell real troubles for the heels. Offense will only take you so far, and when Duke goes cold, we go COLD. Dont wanna say we lived and died by the 3, but bottom line, we couldnt knock down shots in the 2nd half and then couldnt get a series of stops to start any kind of run, and against that kind of talent...you aren't going to win very many times.

As much as I hate the holes, I think that we were just over-matched.

GTHC, GTH

[dbd4ever]

You are 100% correct. If you recorded the game like I did just run the play and you can see Kyle's hand slipped off the ball and his elbow him hanstravel in his pumpkin head. Go Duke!

Thank You!!!!!!!!! Anyone who watched the game and saw the replays could clearly see that it wasn't intentional AT ALL!!!!!! But it was a BIG turning point in the game!!

[BlueintheFace]

ANYBODY, who says that Paulus did worse on Lawson than Nolan simply DID NOT watch the game. Lawson blew by both players numerous times. Neither pg defended him better than the other. Seriously, it didn't matter who was on him.

[dukemsu]

1. Not going to overdo it here. I don't agree that Kyle's elbow was necessarily unintentional, he was frustrated and I don't think he knew who was behind him. Hans's acting job was suitably pathetic by Beaker standards. But Kyle needs to learn to control his nastiness a bit. I don't buy that the incident "turned" the game. After they got it to 4, we got it back to 8 for an instant.

2. Couldn't do anything with Lawson. Depressing.

3. I know it's a cliche, but we're way too reliant on the jumpshot. We don't take the ball to the basket with any regularity, which keeps us off the foul line.

Still proud of our guys as they fought through what became a hopeless situation. But a horrible second half. Didn't think it would ever end.

LGD.

dukemsu

[The1Bluedevil]

In the first half Duke hedged alot of ball screens that involved TH. In the 2nd half I don't understand why Duke did not try and smash every ball screen Lawson was involved in. It may not of worked but it could not have been any worse then guard him 35 feet from the basket and watch him live in the paint. Lawson has a junior high set shot let him shoot!!