This Team= Carrawell, Sanders, Wojo, Maggette, Avery

[HandofHenderson]

I am having trouble measuring how good this team is. I know they play with a ton of heart (Clemson=aberation) and are committed to defense. But how good are they and what is their talent level?

To help judge, I want to compare our key players to a player of Duke past. Then assuming that team of the past was the present team, how good would that team be.

Kyle Singler= Chris Carrawell (or Shane Battier? or Danny Ferry? or Mike Dunleavy? or Mark Alerie?)
Brian Zoubek= Casey Sanders (or Greg Newton? or Taymon Domzalski? Or Michael Thompson?)
Greg Paulus= Steve Wojokowski
Gerald Henderson= Corey Maggette (or Ricky Price (but better able to finish)?)
John Scheyer= Will Avery

Nolan Smith= Kenny Blakeney
Lance Thomas= Mike Chapell
Dave McClure= Reggie Love (or Carmen Wallace?)

=========================
A team of Carrawell, Sanders, Wojo, Maggette, and Avery would be pretty darn good. Not championship caliber but with its defense, a serious threat to make a final four run.

That gives me hope for a deep tourney run with this team and a win against UNC.

Are my comparisons on target or off?

[lifelongdevil]

if zoub could move like casey id have a better feeling about tonight.

[bdh21]

Greg Paulus= Steve Wojokowski

Paulus is not winning a NDPOY anytime soon...

[CDu]

I'm not sure I'd agree with the Scheyer/Avery or Singler/Carrawell analogies. Singler doesn't seem to me to have a good comp. He's not as good defensively as Battier but similar offensively. He's better defensively than Ferry but not as good offensively. Maybe sort of a mix between the two? I didn't really see Alarie play, so I can't give feedback on him. Maybe a lesser version of Laettner?

Scheyer isn't the explosive player off the dribble that Avery was. But he's better defensively and a smarter and better all-around player. They have pretty different games. Both are/were really good players, but I just don't see the comp. I actually see more of a comp with Carrawell than with Avery (more similar height, both very good perimeter defenders, both better athletes than they look but not explosive, both good all-around players).

As far as how far they'd go in a tournament, it's hard to say. Those guys obviously didn't play together, and their competition was different. In any case, if we start shooting well, I think this team can make the Final Four. If we don't, I think we'll lose in the second weekend.

[CDu]

Paulus is not winning a NDPOY anytime soon...

I'd combat that with the argument that Wojo shouldn't have won one either. I think he won that award because he slapped the floor a lot.

[Kedsy]

I am having trouble measuring how good this team is. I know they play with a ton of heart (Clemson=aberation) and are committed to defense. But how good are they and what is their talent level?

To help judge, I want to compare our key players to a player of Duke past. Then assuming that team of the past was the present team, how good would that team be.

Kyle Singler= Chris Carrawell (or Shane Battier? or Danny Ferry? or Mike Dunleavy? or Mark Alerie?)
Brian Zoubek= Casey Sanders (or Greg Newton? or Taymon Domzalski? Or Michael Thompson?)
Greg Paulus= Steve Wojokowski
Gerald Henderson= Corey Maggette (or Ricky Price (but better able to finish)?)
John Scheyer= Will Avery

Nolan Smith= Kenny Blakeney
Lance Thomas= Mike Chapell
Dave McClure= Reggie Love (or Carmen Wallace?)

=========================
A team of Carrawell, Sanders, Wojo, Maggette, and Avery would be pretty darn good. Not championship caliber but with its defense, a serious threat to make a final four run.

That gives me hope for a deep tourney run with this team and a win against UNC.

Are my comparisons on target or off?

It's an interesting exercise, but I can't honestly say I agree with even one of your comparisons. Nor do I think the five you mention as starters would have had much of a chance to get to the Final Four.

However, I personally think the current squad has a pretty good chance, so Let's Go Duke!

[CDu]

It's an interesting exercise, but I can't honestly say I agree with even one of your comparisons. Nor do I think the five you mention as starters would have had much of a chance to get to the Final Four.

However, I personally think the current squad has a pretty good chance, so Let's Go Duke!

I might agree with Wojo/Paulus (though there are differences - Paulus is a better shooter, Wojo a better ballhandler and probably a better defender) and Henderson/Maggette (though a more seasoned Maggette). Other than that, I agree. They aren't really good comps.

I also agree that the hypothetical team wouldn't likely make a final four. But this year's team certainly has a shot if the offense starts clicking.

[HandofHenderson]

Although, I admit the Carrawell comparison wasn't the most obvious, the more I thought about it the more I think it holds. Both were smart, agressive players with a great feel for the game and real warriors.

See the stats below.

Carawell
Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
1999-2000 34 35.6 16.9 48.6 37.7 77.8 3.2 6.1 1.1 1.0
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/pla...hris-carrawell

Singler
Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2008-2009 23 30.3 15.8 43.1 32.4 71.7 2.7 8.2 0.8 1.7
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/pla...e/kyle-singler

I also think Paulus=Wojo fits reasonably well:

Paulus
Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2008-2009 22 19.4 6.1 36.8 32.2 69.0 1.6 1.6 0.0 1.0

Wojo
Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
1997-1998 36 28.2 6.7 38.7 38.8 73.4 4.6 2.4 0.0 2.1

[WeepingThomasHill]

Nice take, Hand of Henderson. Your posts are few and far between, but always enjoyable.

Not sure that Singler is a comp to any of the players you mentioned. Not as big as Ferry or Alarie, not as good a defender as Battier and tougher than Dunleavy. Notwithstanding the last 3 gaems, I think his offense is better than C-Well. I guess he is Dunleavy 2.0.

Zoubek is much slower than Sanders. At this point, Zoubek is a slightly taller Erik Meek.

Paulus = Wojo? Perhaps. Does Wojo still have nightmares about Wayne Turner? Let's hope Lawson does not do the same thing tonight.

Henderson is better than RP but not as big or powerful as Maggette. I saw in another thread that folks were comparing him to Grant Hill. Not even close. At this point, Henderson is more like a new and improved version of Phil Henderson. I think GH could replicate the Mourning dunk - perhaps tonight on Hansbrough's face? Or better yet, the hated Danny Green?

Scheyer - our best all around player, but mired in a tough slump. Not sure who the best comp is for him - perhaps he is a better John Smith?

Nolan = Kenny??? Come on. Not even close.

LT = Chappell? Again, not close. Chappell had a nice offensive game. LT has not shown any consistent offense in 3 years. Hopefully, LT will take an Abdelnaby type leap next year.

McClure = Carmen Wallace. No, I think McClure is a better defender and rebounder than Wallace. McClure is a very poor man's Billy King; although he is certainly not the lockdown, make-you-cry defender that King was, he is trying to take on that role. He did a great job on McClinton.

[HandofHenderson]

Nice take, Hand of Henderson. Your posts are few and far between, but always enjoyable.

Not sure that Singler is a comp to any of the players you mentioned. Not as big as Ferry or Alarie, not as good a defender as Battier and tougher than Dunleavy. Notwithstanding the last 3 gaems, I think his offense is better than C-Well. I guess he is Dunleavy 2.0.

Zoubek is much slower than Sanders. At this point, Zoubek is a slightly taller Erik Meek.


Paulus = Wojo? Perhaps. Does Wojo still have nightmares about Wayne Turner? Let's hope Lawson does not do the same thing tonight.

Henderson is better than RP but not as big or powerful as Maggette. I saw in another thread that folks were comparing him to Grant Hill. Not even close. At this point, Henderson is more like a new and improved version of Phil Henderson. I think GH could replicate the Mourning dunk - perhaps tonight on Hansbrough's face? Or better yet, the hated Danny Green?


Scheyer - our best all around player, but mired in a tough slump. Not sure who the best comp is for him - perhaps he is a better John Smith?

Nolan = Kenny??? Come on. Not even close.

LT = Chappell? Again, not close. Chappell had a nice offensive game. LT has not shown any consistent offense in 3 years. Hopefully, LT will take an Abdelnaby type leap next year.

McClure = Carmen Wallace. No, I think McClure is a better defender and rebounder than Wallace. McClure is a very poor man's Billy King; although he is certainly not the lockdown, make-you-cry defender that King was, he is trying to take on that role. He did a great job on McClinton.

--Mr. Weeping Thomas Hill- I always find your posts to be enlightening. Indeed you are a speak of Great Truths.
--Meek was pretty solid. If we had Meek in the post now, we'd be a final four lock.
--Henderson is Maggette.

Henderson:

Height: 6-4
Weight: 215 lbs

Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2008-2009 23 27.3 15.2 50.8 40.8 75.9 2.1 5.0 0.9 1.5

Maggette:

Height: 6-6
Weight: 215 lbs

Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
1998-1999 39 17.7 10.6 52.5 34.5 71.6 1.5 3.9 0.4 0.7

--John Smith-- Wait he could found Jamestown and hit the 3--Amazing! Seriously, I don't know 80s Duke players well, but didn't Smith play in the post?

--What if Nolan wore knee high socks?

--Yeah, the Billy King comparison is legit.

[jv001]

Interesting thread. Here is my take;

Singler...Dunleavy
Zoubek..Martin Nessley
Paulus..Chris Collins or Jeff Capel
Henderson..Vince Taylor or Maggette
Scheyer..Spanarkel or David Henderson

Smith..Avery
Thomas..McNeely
McClure..Meagher

[HandofHenderson]

Interesting thread. Here is my take;

Singler...Dunleavy
Zoubek..Martin Nessley
Paulus..Chris Collins or Jeff Capel
Henderson..Vince Taylor or Maggette
Scheyer..Spanarkel or David Henderson

Smith..Avery
Thomas..McNeely
McClure..Meagher

Good call with Nessley and Taylor. I had not considered those.

Paulus is no Chris Collins. To find a player comparable to Collins (my favorite player of all time), you would have to take the best attributes of Jay Williams + Hurley + Redick + Superman and combine into one player.

[whereinthehellami]

I'm not sure I'd agree with the Scheyer/Avery or Singler/Carrawell analogies. Singler doesn't seem to me to have a good comp. He's not as good defensively as Battier but similar offensively. He's better defensively than Ferry but not as good offensively. Maybe sort of a mix between the two? I didn't really see Alarie play, so I can't give feedback on him. Maybe a lesser version of Laettner?

Are we comparing Singler to those payers as seniors or as sophomores? If it is a fair comparison, you need to compare them to Singler as sophomores, in which case I think Singler has the nod over all of them?

[CDu]

Are we comparing Singler to those payers as seniors or as sophomores? If it is a fair comparison, you need to compare them to Singler as sophomores, in which case I think Singler has the nod over all of them?

Why does it have to be a comparison of them as sophomores? The comparison made by the original post was Singler/Carrawell, which is clearly not a sophomore to sophomore comparison. Similarly, Avery was never a junior, so he can't really be compared to Scheyer at all can he?

Based on that, I didn't read this as an exercise in ranking Duke players. I read it has an attempt to create a hypothetical squad with which to determine where this team stands quality-wise right now.

And right now, I'd say the sophomore Singler is similar offensively but inferior defensively to Battier as a junior. It's possible that Battier was that good as a freshman and sophomore, but he played on teams with Langdon, McLeod, Avery, Maggette, and Brand. That meant he didn't get to prove his scoring ability. Compared to Ferry, Singler is still behind him as a junior. He's probably a tad better than Ferry as a sophomore. I think Singler is a better defensive player and probably a better rebounder.

But again, that wasn't the point of the exercise (at least as I read it). The point was to figure out how good this team is right now using the perspective of comparisons to previous Duke players. Granted, I don't think it's the best approach to do so, but that's what it is. So comparing our players to players (even at different points in their careers) is the relevant comparison. It doesn't have to be "fair" - fairness isn't really even part of the issue.

[sagegrouse]

To me, Scheyer plays almost exactly like Jim Spanarkel. He is really the glue that holds the team together with his defense, open court game, and offense.

Singler is like Alarie, I suppose, but seems a bit more tenacious on rebounding and not quite as smooth on offense (who would be?). When Singler sits, our offense deteriorates measurably.

We need Paulus to be a Wojo, but he isn't yet. Tonight's prime time, though.

We also need Nolan Smith to be a Daniel Ewing, which I believe he can be.

Henderson as Maggette is interesting, altho' K didn't think enough of Maggette to have him on the court at the end of the NC game. Maybe more like Maggette if Corey had stayed two more years.

sagegrouse
'Busy getting my game face on'

[CDu]

To me, Scheyer plays almost exactly like Jim Spanarkel. He is really the glue that holds the team together with his defense, open court game, and offense.

Singler is like Alarie, I suppose, but seems a bit more tenacious on rebounding and not quite as smooth on offense (who would be?). When Singler sits, our offense deteriorates measurably.

We need Paulus to be a Wojo, but he isn't yet. Tonight's prime time, though.

We also need Nolan Smith to be a Daniel Ewing, which I believe he can be.

Henderson as Maggette is interesting, altho' K didn't think enough of Maggette to have him on the court at the end of the NC game. Maybe more like Maggette if Corey had stayed two more years.

sagegrouse
'Busy getting my game face on'

The more I think about it, the less I see the Wojo/Paulus comparison. Paulus is clearly the better shooter, while Wojo was a better ballhandler/playmaker. Neither were strong defenders (the ridiculous DPOY award notwithstanding), but Wojo was better defensively. Both are the emotional leaders of their team, and that's the biggest similarity I think.

[whereinthehellami]

Why does it have to be a comparison of them as sophomores? The comparison made by the original post was Singler/Carrawell, which is clearly not a sophomore to sophomore comparison. Similarly, Avery was never a junior, so he can't really be compared to Scheyer at all can he?

Based on that, I didn't read this as an exercise in ranking Duke players. I read it has an attempt to create a hypothetical squad with which to determine where this team stands quality-wise right now.

And right now, I'd say the sophomore Singler is similar offensively but inferior defensively to Battier as a junior. It's possible that Battier was that good as a freshman and sophomore, but he played on teams with Langdon, McLeod, Avery, Maggette, and Brand. That meant he didn't get to prove his scoring ability. Compared to Ferry, Singler is still behind him as a junior. He's probably a tad better than Ferry as a sophomore. I think Singler is a better defensive player and probably a better rebounder.

But again, that wasn't the point of the exercise (at least as I read it). The point was to figure out how good this team is right now using the perspective of comparisons to previous Duke players. Granted, I don't think it's the best approach to do so, but that's what it is. So comparing our players to players (even at different points in their careers) is the relevant comparison. It doesn't have to be "fair" - fairness isn't really even part of the issue.

I see what you are saying and agree. My post was more in repsonse to your post without the context of the first post. Which makes about as much sense as my last sentence. So with that I'm outta here..off to help other threads...go nowhere.

[House G]

To me, Scheyer plays almost exactly like Jim Spanarkel. He is really the glue that holds the team together with his defense, open court game, and offense.

Singler is like Alarie, I suppose, but seems a bit more tenacious on rebounding and not quite as smooth on offense (who would be?). When Singler sits, our offense deteriorates measurably.

We need Paulus to be a Wojo, but he isn't yet. Tonight's prime time, though.

We also need Nolan Smith to be a Daniel Ewing, which I believe he can be.

Henderson as Maggette is interesting, altho' K didn't think enough of Maggette to have him on the court at the end of the NC game. Maybe more like Maggette if Corey had stayed two more years.

sagegrouse
'Busy getting my game face on'

I love the Scheyer-Spanarkel analogy!