meta-Jay Bilas

[77devil]

Since reading DBR I have read a stream of criticisms about Packer, Patrick, Vitale, Elmore, any t.v. coverage (ESPN, ESPN2, CBS, ABC, NBC, BBC) and now Bilas. So, since no one seems to be able to please us, I guess our best option is to just wait and read the papers...no, we can't do that either, we don't care for any of the reporters.

G-man is great. He's articulate, insightful, has good cadence, and interjects the right amount of information into the commentary; and its mostly about the game unlike most of the others.

[tux]

To me, what seems to be going on here is a reaction by ESPN to all the Duke haters out there. They know the Duke fans are going to tune in and watch, but they like to give a nod and a wink to all those folks pulling for Duke to lose and who are convinced that Duke benefits from a lot of the calls. How many times during any Duke game does Patrick say some variation of:

"Coach {insert opposing coach} sure is mad about that call... and I can't say I blame him."
"The fans are angry about that call... and I can see their point."

I'm not sure I've ever heard him say the above when referring to K or the fans in Cameron. Last night, almost every close block/charge call was accepted as a solid call if it went to FSU and questioned if it went in favor of Duke; if not 100%, it was close. And this pattern repeats itself almost every game when Patrick is calling the game. Elmore was no problem questioning every call that goes Duke's way. (I almost respect him more for not being afraid to lay it out there --- he hates Duke, we all know that... in that sense, he's the best guy put out there for a Duke game, from ESPN's perspective.) Jay is more subtle, but you can tell he feels much more comfortable when he's moving things in that direction. I guess I can't really blame him; I think he's making the same calculation ESPN makes: better to keep the multitude at bay (throw them a bone or two, or twenty) than worry about the small group of Duke fans who'll probably support you regardless. But just b/c I can't blame him doesn't mean it's not annoying...

In general, I think too many announcers are commenting too much on the refereeing; fine, explain to us how the game is being called, tell us what the rules are after an unusual call, tell us that a coach is up and reacting to something. But quit trying to be the 4th and 5th ref from the sideline...

[rthomas]

What's with Bilas saying "He's dribbling the leather off the ball." Not once, but twice - two times too many.

[Classof06]

I like Bilas a lot because he always tells it like he sees it. I used to think that he overcompensated to be partial when it came to Duke, but I don't really as much anymore. The bottom line is that people like Bilas, who never hesitate to tell it like they see it, are always going to rub someone the wrong way.

Now, I watched the game in a bar last night so I didn't hear the commentators. But after hearing all these Bilas comments, I wish I would've watched it at home, haha...

[greybeard]

During recent talking-heads show he does, there have been times when Bilas began talking and I found myself having to look up at the screen (nobody watches the screen during those things, right) because I am sure he has morphed into Raftery. Inflections, breathing pattern, the entire nine yards. It's as if Billy Crystal took over his body. What's up with that?

[loran16]

Deadspin
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Duke Blue Devils
Greg Paulus Flops Like A Champion


If you needed any more proof that Duke will always, always be Duke, here's the egregious flops from Duke's Greg Paulus during last night's Duke-Florida State game.

The best part is not that the referees keep falling for Paulus' "my god, look what these horrible opponents keep doing to me!" act; it's that good ole Jay Bilas is there to have his school's back to the very end. Admit it: It's nice having Duke really good again, isn't it? It's always more fun to hate someone that's good.

Source=http://deadspin.com/345968/greg-paulus-flops-like-a-champion

Truthfully i agree with this thread's opinions, but its amazing to see what duke-haters (Which deadspin seems to do way too often of late) take out of commentators like Bilas.

Maybe this is why he always trys to favor the other team, because idiots like these make these comments as well?

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

In general, I think too many announcers are commenting too much on the refereeing; fine, explain to us how the game is being called, tell us what the rules are after an unusual call, tell us that a coach is up and reacting to something. But quit trying to be the 4th and 5th ref from the sideline...

Second guessing the officials without any explanation linked to the official rules seems to be pandering to a growing audience who appear to believe that winning games revolves around the officials' actions, not how the players executed. An unfortunate choice for adding color to any game!

[rsvman]

...Coach K obviously puts a lot of effort into teaching the players how to take the charge. From my perspective I'd say it's an important part of his defensive philosophy. You can dislike it all you want, but it's not going to go away.

Also, as CMS already mentioned, it's not a flop everytime somebody falls to the floor. Sometimes the offensive player actually knocks the defender over.

As for Bilas's announcing, I agree with many others that last night he hit a new low in his anti-Duke commentary. One example was on the charge taken by Nolan Smith; Bilas argued that it should have been called a block because Smith hadn't established defensive position in time. But the reason the referee called it a charge was because the offensive player ducked his shoulder and rammed into Smith. When the offensive player chooses to initiate contact, the foul can be called against the offensive player. On the replay the deliberate contact was obvious; it was like a halfback trying to pick up a first down on third and one. Rather than arguing that taking the charge is not skilled defense, I would argue that lowering the shoulder and plowing into people is not skilled offense.

[feldspar]

...Coach K obviously puts a lot of effort into teaching the players how to take the charge. From my perspective I'd say it's an important part of his defensive philosophy. You can dislike it all you want, but it's not going to go away.

Also, as CMS already mentioned, it's not a flop everytime somebody falls to the floor. Sometimes the offensive player actually knocks the defender over.

As for Bilas's announcing, I agree with many others that last night he hit a new low in his anti-Duke commentary. One example was on the charge taken by Nolan Smith; Bilas argued that it should have been called a block because Smith hadn't established defensive position in time. But the reason the referee called it a charge was because the offensive player ducked his shoulder and rammed into Smith. When the offensive player chooses to initiate contact, the foul can be called against the offensive player. On the replay the deliberate contact was obvious; it was like a halfback trying to pick up a first down on third and one. Rather than arguing that taking the charge is not skilled defense, I would argue that lowering the shoulder and plowing into people is not skilled offense.

This is a good point, although I don't remember seeing that during that particular play. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying I didn't notice it. If what you're describing is accurate, though, it was the right call.

I won't go so far, though, as to say Bilas' opinion on that exact play is an example of his anti-Duke bias. He just probably saw the play differently. Plus, like 99.999% of announcers, he doesn't know the rules, but he sure as heckfire thinks he does.

[_Gary]

Interesting. Last night as I watched the game both my daughter and I picked up, once again, on Jay's unconscious bias. And I want to make it clear I do believe this is an unconscious thing with him, but it's real nonetheless. He definitely is bending over backwards to keep the "homer" tag off himself when he calls a Duke game or just discusses the Blue Devils on ESPN. Having noticed this last night I thought about coming to the boards and starting a thread on this subject, but decided not too because I didn't want to take any grief. Lo and behold, I read the forum today and there's 4 pages on the subject. At least I know now it's not just me and my daughter that are seeing this.

I think the thing that gets me most is that, whether it's just dumb luck or not, every time Jay thinks there's been a bad or controversial call, it seems to always be one where Duke got the benefit. And Jay consequently spends a few seconds or more telling us how bad the call was. But he never seems to comment, at least not with any vigor, a controversial call that goes against Duke. It's very strange and at the end of the night it seems like his comments, if placed on a balance, would favor the other team. It was almost, but not quite, like watching a Tallahassee hometown broadcast of the game. The action was, more often than not, called from an FSU vantage point.

One example of this happened early in the game. Just a little before the call where Jay went ballistic on the Nolan charge, a Duke player (seems like it was either DeMarcus or Gerald) had been called for a charge and it seemed to me to be a bad call. But not a word was said about it. Not one word. Yet the Smith call, and others, were mentioned by Jay as being bad calls that went against FSU. Either I have to believe the myth that Duke really does get all the close calls, or I have to believe that Jay focuses more on the calls that go against Duke's opponents because he subconsciously is concerned with not coming across as a homer. Everything I've seen tells me the latter is the case. And consequently, while Jay may earn some brownie points with ESPN or anti-Duke fans, he's actually contributing to the myth about Duke getting all the calls (even though I don't believe he wants to do that). And that's the only reason his subtly biased game calls bother me. It just perpetuates the myth that keeps feeding the Duke hate.

I wish he'd seriously consider what we are saying, because I know I'm not making this stuff up in my head. It's not horrible or over the top, but it is there. No doubt about it.


Gary

[Spret42]

...Coach K obviously puts a lot of effort into teaching the players how to take the charge. From my perspective I'd say it's an important part of his defensive philosophy. You can dislike it all you want, but it's not going to go away.

Also, as CMS already mentioned, it's not a flop everytime somebody falls to the floor. Sometimes the offensive player actually knocks the defender over.

As for Bilas's announcing, I agree with many others that last night he hit a new low in his anti-Duke commentary. One example was on the charge taken by Nolan Smith; Bilas argued that it should have been called a block because Smith hadn't established defensive position in time. But the reason the referee called it a charge was because the offensive player ducked his shoulder and rammed into Smith. When the offensive player chooses to initiate contact, the foul can be called against the offensive player. On the replay the deliberate contact was obvious; it was like a halfback trying to pick up a first down on third and one. Rather than arguing that taking the charge is not skilled defense, I would argue that lowering the shoulder and plowing into people is not skilled offense.

Please don't misunderstand me to say that the charge has no place in basketball. And I understand Coach Krzyzewski teaches it as a tactic. I do think that lately, across the board in college basketball, not just with Duke, that referees are calling charges on plays where the defender wasn't in position and the offensive player wasn't initiating contact. You chose a good example of a legitimate charge, and I understand with Duke fans, every charge Duke takes will be a good one. I just think it is overcalled.

As a hoops fan, I do think it is a weak, soft way to play defense. But that is just my opinion, probably formed by how I was taught basketball.

[Clipsfan]

This is a good point, although I don't remember seeing that during that particular play. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying I didn't notice it. If what you're describing is accurate, though, it was the right call.

I won't go so far, though, as to say Bilas' opinion on that exact play is an example of his anti-Duke bias. He just probably saw the play differently. Plus, like 99.999% of announcers, he doesn't know the rules, but he sure as heckfire thinks he does.

I'd think that he has a fairly good understanding of the rules, given that he lived and breathed/played basketball for so long and is quite cerebral.

[Lotus000]

I think Bilas does a great job of calling games, but I will say I have to agree with the sentiment of the thread.

I was watching the game with a friend last night, and at one point, threw my hands up and said, "GAH, I love Jay, but why the flip does he have to be so unbiased ALLLL the time!"

I realize that he's trained himself to be amazingly neutral, and that his legal practice, I'm sure, has a big impact on how he views the world--I know my J.D. does the same for me--but c'mon, pal, get excited for Duke every once in a while.

When I watch Len Elmore, he gets excited for Maryland once in a while, same for Packer and Wake, at times, though I wouldn't call him a 'homer.' Heck, Brad Daugherty was excited for UNC all the time, but he was also excited for Duke...I LOVED having him call games, and I wish he'd ditch the NASCAR/Truck series gig and come back home.

[Richard Berg]

Someone said that if you listen to the game in 5.1 or better, and mute the center, L, and R channels, the surround speakers will just play ambient noise from the stadium.

However, I tried this with my receiver, and couldn't figure out how to mute the front 3 channels w/o yanking out wires.

Another option is to listen to the radio broadcast. If you can get the radio synched with the video, it is a thing of beauty.

You don't have to yank the L & R channels, just the center. Totally worth it.

[Bryan]

Bilas is clearly one of the best college basketball announcers on ESPN. He's good both at the games and in the studio. I think he does make a conscious effort to avoid rooting for Duke in their games. Wouldn't you? If you're trying to be a top-flight national announcer you have to come across as credible in all the games you do. He balances that pretty well, even though Hubert Davis probably tells him otherwise.

If Jay could be cloned and do all the ESPN NCAA games the quality of announcing would go up a lot.

Bryan

[buddy]

is all I ask of announcers. Last night Patrick and Bilas failed their audience on Henderson's dunk of the missed foul, and on the (lack of an) explanation of the double technical. I remember one other instance in the second half where they failed to say which played committed a foul (at a time when more than one player had 3, so it could really be important to know who committed the foul). I find this a chronic failing of ESPN especially, where the announcers seem more concerned with the sound of their own voice than with the game. Henderson's play looked like it might really have been spectacular, but we'll never know from ESPN's coverage.

[Chard]

Interesting. Last night as I watched the game both my daughter and I picked up, once again, on Jay's unconscious bias. And I want to make it clear I do believe this is an unconscious thing with him, but it's real nonetheless. He definitely is bending over backwards to keep the "homer" tag off himself when he calls a Duke game or just discusses the Blue Devils on ESPN. Having noticed this last night I thought about coming to the boards and starting a thread on this subject, but decided not too because I didn't want to take any grief. Lo and behold, I read the forum today and there's 4 pages on the subject. At least I know now it's not just me and my daughter that are seeing this.

I think the thing that gets me most is that, whether it's just dumb luck or not, every time Jay thinks there's been a bad or controversial call, it seems to always be one where Duke got the benefit. And Jay consequently spends a few seconds or more telling us how bad the call was. But he never seems to comment, at least not with any vigor, a controversial call that goes against Duke. It's very strange and at the end of the night it seems like his comments, if placed on a balance, would favor the other team. It was almost, but not quite, like watching a Tallahassee hometown broadcast of the game. The action was, more often than not, called from an FSU vantage point.

One example of this happened early in the game. Just a little before the call where Jay went ballistic on the Nolan charge, a Duke player (seems like it was either DeMarcus or Gerald) had been called for a charge and it seemed to me to be a bad call. But not a word was said about it. Not one word. Yet the Smith call, and others, were mentioned by Jay as being bad calls that went against FSU. Either I have to believe the myth that Duke really does get all the close calls, or I have to believe that Jay focuses more on the calls that go against Duke's opponents because he subconsciously is concerned with not coming across as a homer. Everything I've seen tells me the latter is the case. And consequently, while Jay may earn some brownie points with ESPN or anti-Duke fans, he's actually contributing to the myth about Duke getting all the calls (even though I don't believe he wants to do that). And that's the only reason his subtly biased game calls bother me. It just perpetuates the myth that keeps feeding the Duke hate.

I wish he'd seriously consider what we are saying, because I know I'm not making this stuff up in my head. It's not horrible or over the top, but it is there. No doubt about it.


Gary

Well said. How dare you.

[uncwdevil]

Interesting. Last night as I watched the game both my daughter and I picked up, once again, on Jay's unconscious bias. And I want to make it clear I do believe this is an unconscious thing with him, but it's real nonetheless. He definitely is bending over backwards to keep the "homer" tag off himself when he calls a Duke game or just discusses the Blue Devils on ESPN. Having noticed this last night I thought about coming to the boards and starting a thread on this subject, but decided not too because I didn't want to take any grief. Lo and behold, I read the forum today and there's 4 pages on the subject. At least I know now it's not just me and my daughter that are seeing this.

I think the thing that gets me most is that, whether it's just dumb luck or not, every time Jay thinks there's been a bad or controversial call, it seems to always be one where Duke got the benefit. And Jay consequently spends a few seconds or more telling us how bad the call was. But he never seems to comment, at least not with any vigor, a controversial call that goes against Duke. It's very strange and at the end of the night it seems like his comments, if placed on a balance, would favor the other team. It was almost, but not quite, like watching a Tallahassee hometown broadcast of the game. The action was, more often than not, called from an FSU vantage point.

One example of this happened early in the game. Just a little before the call where Jay went ballistic on the Nolan charge, a Duke player (seems like it was either DeMarcus or Gerald) had been called for a charge and it seemed to me to be a bad call. But not a word was said about it. Not one word. Yet the Smith call, and others, were mentioned by Jay as being bad calls that went against FSU. Either I have to believe the myth that Duke really does get all the close calls, or I have to believe that Jay focuses more on the calls that go against Duke's opponents because he subconsciously is concerned with not coming across as a homer. Everything I've seen tells me the latter is the case. And consequently, while Jay may earn some brownie points with ESPN or anti-Duke fans, he's actually contributing to the myth about Duke getting all the calls (even though I don't believe he wants to do that). And that's the only reason his subtly biased game calls bother me. It just perpetuates the myth that keeps feeding the Duke hate.

I wish he'd seriously consider what we are saying, because I know I'm not making this stuff up in my head. It's not horrible or over the top, but it is there. No doubt about it.


Gary

Gary, you said it perfectly. That is exactly how I feel. He doesn't do it on purpose, but he does it. You either have to believe that or that the refs really do favor Duke most of the time.

[feldspar]

I'd think that he has a fairly good understanding of the rules, given that he lived and breathed/played basketball for so long and is quite cerebral.

He has probably a better understanding of the rules than 90% of the commentators out there, but he said some blatantly false things during last night's game, so I'm not really inclined to give him a pass in the context of this discussion.

[dukie8]

i've never understood why the networks pay a lot of money for game announcers. it's not like a single person ever tunes into a game because of the announcers or doesn't watch a game because of the announcers.