Offense...where is it?

[Dukie4Life]

I don't know about everyone else, but its really making me nervous for the Georgetown game Saturday. The number of baskets that were missed close to the basket the past two or three games seems to be outrageous. Zoubek missed a couple of easy put backs lastnight, Scheyer is not only struggeling from the floor but from the FT line too.

I can't say for sure, but I wonder if Nolan's back or knee is still bothering him to the point. He opted out of driving the lane against FSU and GT. Without Gerald and Kyle on offense, Gerald, Kyle and McClure on D its not a pretty game as a whole...

If its not for our defense we are 0-2 in the ACC right there with the Tar Heels.

Thoughts?

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I don't know about everyone else, but its really making me nervous for the Georgetown game Saturday. The number of baskets that were missed close to the basket the past two or three games seems to be outrageous. Zoubek missed a couple of easy put backs lastnight, Scheyer is not only struggeling from the floor but from the FT line too.

I can't say for sure, but I wonder if Nolan's back or knee is still bothering him to the point. He opted out of driving the lane against FSU and GT. Without Gerald and Kyle on offense, Gerald, Kyle and McClure on D its not a pretty game as a whole...

If its not for our defense we are 0-2 in the ACC right there with the Tar Heels.

Thoughts?

Georgetown is not to be taken lightly under any circumstances this year.

I thought fatigue from the Florida State game might have influenced play last night against Georgia Tech. The Florida State game was extremely demanding from the standpoint of lots of tough physical contact. The environment there can also be a drain.

Perhaps a little rest while in the home routine will restore the level and consistency of play.

[Dukie4Life]

Lets hope! And don't get me wrong I am a strong believer in defense leads to offense...I'm just not seeing the finishes we've grown accustomed to over the years lately. Georgetown will exploit that no doubt.

[davekay1971]

We're a team that has trouble shooting the ball sometimes, plain and simple. Duke had plenty of open looks last night that we simply didn't knock down, especially in the first half. I think that will continue to happen from time to time, and could certainly be a problem in March. Our team plays consistently stellar defense, and G's comments post game tell me that the team identifies itself as primarily a defensive team. If we keep up that defensive identity, play good motion offense (rather than trying to create off the dribble, as Bilas correctly identified us doing last night) AND hit the open looks our motion offense creates, we'll blow people out of the water. If we play stagnant offense or just miss the looks we get, we'll struggle...but our defense will still win us a lot of games.

Bobby Knight had a nice snippet on Duke and our offensive spacing on the four letter this morning. He said that Duke utilized spacing as well as anyone in the country. If we keep to that, and keep the ball moving, we should get good shots. Hopefully they'll fall.

[rsvman]

We're a team that has trouble shooting the ball sometimes, plain and simple. Duke had plenty of open looks last night that we simply didn't knock down, especially in the first half...

Totally agree with this. At times during this game I found myself wondering why there is nobody on the team who can make a shot. Just crazy bad shooting.

I actually was looking at the 5 guys on the floor wondering who in the world was going to score for us, at one point in the game. Shortly thereafter, Paulus was put in, so it seemed that Coach K was thinking the same thing.

The defense has been great, thank goodness. The boys need some more shooting drills, shooting time, or a shrink or something. We won't be beating the really good teams by missing open shots.

[DukeCO2009]

People who think our offense is "gone" because we're missing open threes are missing the boat. Sure, that's part of the equation, but it's not the whole story. Over the past few games, I've noticed three trends in particular that I believe have contributed to our rather poor scoring efforts:

1. We've had little to not fast-break play. Steals at the top of the key are not the only opportunities to run the break. We have the speed to throw quick outlet passes after rebounds and start running, but I've noticed that we consistently pull the ball out and set up in the half-court even when we have numerical and/or positional advantages down the floor. We definitely have the personnel to run it: Kyle, Jon, Nolan, G, Elliot, Lance, Marty, and Dave are all quick. Additionally, we're deep enough and our defense is good enough that we don't have to worry about "running with" teams aside from maybe Carolina and Wake. Perhaps, as someone suggested in another thread, K is trying to save the team's collective legs for March--anyone's guess is as good as mine.

2. We're not driving to the hoop enough. Nolan, in particular, could really open up the offense if he tried getting to the rack a little more frequently. He's not as good a passer as Greg, to be sure, but if he can get deep into lane and draw an extra defender or two, he'll have easy passing options. G, IMO, is also a little too hesitant to take a defender off the dribble. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE the continued development of his mid-range pull-up game, but I've seen him pass up driving opportunities to settle for a contested J--or, simply, to pass the ball to a teammate--more than a handful of times. The more assertive Gerald is, the better we are as a team. I'd also like to see Kyle take advantage of mismatches against taller players on the perimeter. He is frequently matched up with much bigger, slower, and less coordinated defenders that he can very easily take off the dribble. I think Jon is our best driver right now, as well as our most aggressive player overall. Would be great if his assertiveness rubbed off on everyone else.

3. We've stopped running the ball through the post. Regretably, we've fallen into the trap of swinging the ball around the perimeter for 25+ seconds and shooting contested jumpers--it's excrutiating to watch. Yes, we're winning, but this type of offense isn't sustainable (see: '06-'07 season). If we get Lance/Z/Miles (who should get more PT, btw) more touches, the game changes. These guys don't need to play like Shelden, but if K could squeeze fifteen points combined out of our bigs the floor would open up considerably. Not saying we should dump it down to the post every possession, but if we can pass off whoever's playing the 5 as even a minor scoring threat, shots are suddenly more open, driving lanes suddenly more clear, and the floor suddenly more well-spaced.

[Billy Dat]

Taking the glass is half full approach for a second...

-Let's be happy that there is a significant area of our team's game where we haven't peaked in January! There is a lot of potential room for growth, for an extra gear that we haven't had in year's past. G's recent emergence is a part of that growth, and I think we'll see the shooting percentage go up.

-I would like to see us at least throw the ball into the post a little more, which we were doing more earlier in the season, to force some double teams and set up more "in rhythm" 3 pointers on kick-outs. Of course, that assumes Z or Lance would command a double down, smart teams might let them try and make a move. The counter would be to have Singler posting up, but I think we're more effective with him operating and orchestrating from the perimeter

-I, too, often tell myself I'd like Nolan to drive more, but we don't know what the consequence of unsuccessful drives might be - namely fast break baskets on the other end on guard run outs. I do think he should look for his drive more, but not a lot more.

I'd argue that we're in a better place then recent years past because our defense is ahead of our offense, because I think it's easier for the offense to improve, especially because % wise, the odds are that we will improve. I think the extra gear will show itself this year.

[BlueintheFace]

Well, in the first half last night we just didn't hit open jump shots that our offense is built to create. Such is life.

[rsvman]

People who think our offense is "gone" because we're missing open threes are missing the boat.

It's not just a matter of missing threes; they're missing 10-18-foot jumpers.

[jv001]

It's not just a matter of missing threes; they're missing 10-18-foot jumpers.

Well maybe since we're missing them now, we'll hit them come March. Go Duke!

[rsvman]

I certainly hope so.


Go Duke!

[JimBD]

I love this Duke team. I think it has more talent and depth than Duke has had in years. But I was baffled by what I saw at Georgia Tech last night.

Duke seemed to run very little offense. There was very little off-the-ball motion, very little penetrating, very little passing, very little team offense. Mostly just standing around watching while a perimeter player waited for a screen to be set, then tried to go one-on-one and put up a contested shot or passed to another perimeter player who waited for a screen to be set and tried to go one-on-one, and so on until the shot clock was running out and a forced shot was taken.

This game had very little passion. The Tech fans are not excited by their team, the stands were only half full at the start of the game, and the Tech fans seemed to have to force themselves to make noise. Duke at Tech is normally a tough ticket, but tickets were easy to get this year. This is not a very good Georgia Tech team.

Duke won because of superior talent but this was not a game to be proud of. Neither team showed much passion.

I realize that Duke emphasizes defense and Coach K likes his players to react and improvise on offense. But please, Coach K, when they are not reacting and improvising, have them run some plays instead of just standing around and watching each other.

Duke can beat anybody if they play with passion. But if they show the same lack of effort and emotion that they showed at Georgia Tech, they can lose to just about anybody.

[mkirsh]

1. We've had little to not fast-break play.

2. We're not driving to the hoop enough.

3. We've stopped running the ball through the post.

No doubt the offense has been fairly stagnant the past few games, and there are stretches where G, Nolan, and Paulus are all guilty of pounding the ball into the floor for too long. The question is, what changes can be made to get more flow? What you have above is a good start, and in addition I would guess that some point soon coach K may bring back the weave from a few seasons ago that forces opponents to switch the handoffs, creating mismatches for Singler, Henderson, Scheyer, and Smith to then drive. A few games ago (can't remember which game, might have been Davidson) we came out of half and seemed to throw it to Zoubek on the first 5 or 6 possessions, just to get the offense going inside out a little more, so might see some more of that in coming games. As much as we would all love to see more fast break, for some reason Coach K does not seem to be emphasizing the run much this year, so not sure if we will do more of that or not.

[Devils Rock]

This thread is hilarious. What I mean is not that it is utterly without merit, but I took a quick trip over to IC today and if you were to read the posts from the Tar Heel fans, you might not feel so disheartened by our sometimes suspect offensive prowess. Many of the 'holes are totally freaked out by how they are going to guard Duke. I saw post after post of holes fans who said things like "If Danny guards Gerald, then we've got no one available to guard Scheyer or Singler. I just don't think we have enough good defenders to handle all of Duke's weapons. Plus their D right now is brutal and they are probably going to shut us down. We're in trouble if we don't get Ginyard back soon!"

Bottom line is that we need to keep some perspective. I agree that this team has looked sketchy on offense at times. Even though the game was ugly as hell, I love the fact that we won on the road by 14 on a night when we couldn't hit the side of a barn. We also outrebounded a bigger team and that is something that would never have happened last year. And for everyone who says that this is the same team as the past two years there are two problems: 1) it's not and 2) even if it were, the players are older, stronger, in better health, more experienced and more savvy. I like this team and even when they've won ugly, they don't give me the heeby jeebies the way some of our past teams have. With the exception of the Michigan game, this team always feels like they know how to tough out a win and get the job done.

I am adding this addendum to the post b/c I just saw JimBD's post which beat mine to the press and I should acknowledge that his points about specific offensive issues are accurate in last night's game and I don't mean to imply that we could not benefit from better ball movement etc.

[RelativeWays]

I'm a little concerned on how we've looked offensively the last two games, granted FSU is a rough and tumble team, but GT sucks this year and there's no hiding that fact, only UVA is worse. Last night we looked suspiciously like another Duke team with a great defense but a terrible terrible offense that had a hard time finishing, the 06-07 team. We have a lot more talent than that team but it seems like we're still struggling to find a consistency when outside shots don't fall. We have time to work on it. Zoubs with 2 pts and LT with 0 is a bit disheartening though.

[norduck]

I'm a little concerned on how we've looked offensively the last two games, granted FSU is a rough and tumble team, but GT sucks this year and there's no hiding that fact, only UVA is worse. Last night we looked suspiciously like another Duke team with a great defense but a terrible terrible offense that had a hard time finishing, the 06-07 team. We have a lot more talent than that team but it seems like we're still struggling to find a consistency when outside shots don't fall. We have time to work on it. Zoubs with 2 pts and LT with 0 is a bit disheartening though.

Agree, and the free throws have started to clank again.

[Kedsy]

This thread is hilarious. What I mean is not that it is utterly without merit, but I took a quick trip over to IC today and if you were to read the posts from the Tar Heel fans, you might not feel so disheartened by our sometimes suspect offensive prowess. Many of the 'holes are totally freaked out by how they are going to guard Duke. I saw post after post of holes fans who said things like "If Danny guards Gerald, then we've got no one available to guard Scheyer or Singler. I just don't think we have enough good defenders to handle all of Duke's weapons. Plus their D right now is brutal and they are probably going to shut us down. We're in trouble if we don't get Ginyard back soon!"

It's good to hear they are as obsessed with us as we are with them.

Personally I think this thread (as well as several others) is hilarious because it's hard to imagine a fan base being so negative about a 15-1 team that is #2 in the country.

[DukeCO2009]

Hilarious is quite a condescending word given the context of the thread. Confused, IMO, would be much more appropriate. Anyway, symantics aside, I think you're a little off-base with your comments. While some in this thread have indeed posted "negative" messages, I think you'll find that the majority of posts are quite well thought-out and constructive. People aren't complaining about the team being 15-1 and #2/3 in the nation--it's quite the contrary, in fact. Instead, we feel lucky that we are where we are; we see teams like Pittsburgh, carolina, Wake, and others, and worry how well we would match up with them. This concern is based off the notion that our offense has been struggling and that our defense has been carrying us to victories as of late.

While it's certainly nice to have half of Duke's game be among the best in the nation, it's equally worrying when a team like Elon or the Citadel drops more points on Davidson than Duke does. Teams are prone to lapses at both ends of the court every now and then--this much is obvious. If we were to play a high-scoring team like, say, Wake, a lot of us around here simply wonder whether we could survive an off-night on defense with our offense playing the way it is now. Granted, we've played against some tough defenses ourselves recently, but the mistakes we've been making have been fairly fundamental. They've been outlined pretty well in this thread, so I'll let you read up rather than re-hash them myself.

Are some posters being alarmist? Without a doubt they are. Others, though, are not just reacting to the Tech game. We've played poorly on the offensive end for four straight games now. I don't think it's time to hit the panic button, but certainly the DBR can indulge in some collective analysis, can't it?

[norduck]

Hilarious is quite a condescending word given the context of the thread. Confused, IMO, would be much more appropriate. Anyway, symantics aside, I think you're a little off-base with your comments. While some in this thread have indeed posted "negative" messages, I think you'll find that the majority of posts are quite well thought-out and constructive. People aren't complaining about the team being 15-1 and #2/3 in the nation--it's quite the contrary, in fact. Instead, we feel lucky that we are where we are; we see teams like Pittsburgh, carolina, Wake, and others, and worry how well we would match up with them. This concern is based off the notion that our offense has been struggling and that our defense has been carrying us to victories as of late.

While it's certainly nice to have half of Duke's game be among the best in the nation, it's equally worrying when a team like Elon or the Citadel drops more points on Davidson than Duke does. Teams are prone to lapses at both ends of the court every now and then--this much is obvious. If we were to play a high-scoring team like, say, Wake, a lot of us around here simply wonder whether we could survive an off-night on defense with our offense playing the way it is now. Granted, we've played against some tough defenses ourselves recently, but the mistakes we've been making have been fairly fundamental. They've been outlined pretty well in this thread, so I'll let you read up rather than re-hash them myself.

Are some posters being alarmist? Without a doubt they are. Others, though, are not just reacting to the Tech game. We've played poorly on the offensive end for four straight games now. I don't think it's time to hit the panic button, but certainly the DBR can indulge in some collective analysis, can't it?

Not an alarmist here. But March does happen!

[pfrduke]

While it's certainly nice to have half of Duke's game be among the best in the nation, it's equally worrying when a team like Elon or the Citadel drops more points on Davidson than Duke does.

It's a good thing neither Elon nor Citadel has scored more against Davidson than Duke did. Only Oklahoma and Purdue have put up better offensive efficiency numbers against Davidson than Duke (and only Oklahoma and Chattanooga (in an 85 possession game) scored more points in raw terms).

Don't just rely on raw points when games vary greatly in pace.