ESPN Article: Who do (did) fans hate more: Hansbrough or Redick?

[FireOgilvie]

He travelled before the shot that broke the school scoring record.

Standard.

[RelativeWays]

He actually got called for a blocking foul during one of his trademarked flops...err hard work and guts.

[mo.st.dukie]

I didn't realize that he has made more free throws than field goals. I mean I knew he took an insane amount of free throws but more than field goals is just crazy. It's like watching a rugby match when he's playing.

[jsimmons]

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow...-dental-school


This lind of reminds me on Danny Manning, and the stuff kansas did to get him to come there by hiring his father as a coach. A few years to late in this case, but these things always seem to make me think something must have been planned out.

[CameronBornAndBred]

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow...-dental-school


This lind of reminds me on Danny Manning, and the stuff kansas did to get him to come there by hiring his father as a coach. A few years to late in this case, but these things always seem to make me think something must have been planned out.

I'm sure she's made plenty of contacts at the school on her own since her son has been there. As long as she's qualified, I don't see anything wrong with it. It of course would have been a different story if it were during his recruitment, but being as he is in his last year, there would be no influence on her part for Tyler to do anything he hasn't already done.

[throatybeard]

He travelled before the shot that broke the school scoring record.

Standard.

This is time to honor a great TarHeel, whose scoring record I can't understand how lasted this long, Phil Ford. Keep in mind he did this with no 3 point line and with a coach playing a chickenpoop cowardly keepaway offense at times. And dude had a lot of assists too.

I guess it's that most of their really great players have played three seasons.

[weezie]

And Phil Ford did it all with a much better hair style.
The guy was truly one sweet, smooth player...even when he was ripping into the Devils, sighhhhh.

[Wander]

Someone needs to tell Barack Obama that Hansbrough is not a good shot-blocker.

[dukemsu]

I agree with many who have said that the primary reason JJ was hated more was his size. Big guys are very rarely hated. JJ looked like a guy you might see at the gym or the grocery store. Hans looks like, well, Beaker. Not his fault, cheap shot, I know.

Anyway, I think the bigger reason is his jersey. Carolina is something of a teflon program-nothing sticks. Not an 8-20 season. People have forgotten Matt Doherty. Had Duke lost a game in the fashion UNC did at the Final Four last year, K would have had the press camped out on his lawn for 6 months. Their NBA flops (May, McCants, Forte, Wolf, on and on) get ignored. Anytime Duke loses, it's national news. Anytime a player struggles in the NBA, it's the end of the program's relevance.

None of this is news to anyone here. The question is, and this is for another thread, is why?

I have long maintained that the reason Carolina guys and teams take less heat than Duke guys and teams is that Jordan went to school there. Criticizing UNC is a tacit criticism of Jordan, and we all know most of the media is incapable or unwilling to call out Mike.

dukemsu

[CameronCrazy'11]

I don't even know if Hansbrough was the most hated guy in college basketball last year. I think that was probably Paulus, which is a little hard to understand, since Paulus is far from a superstar.

One thing's for sure, if Singler stays at Duke a few more, there's no question that he'll became the most hated player in college basketball.

Plays for Duke? Check.
White? Check.
Really, really, really good? It's looking that way
Habit of getting in opposing players' faces? Check.
Confident swagger, bordering on arrogance? Check.

If he actually makes it to senior year, Duke fans will love him like they loved Laettner and J.J., and the rest of college basketball will have that creepy obsession/ hatred for him.

[Buckeye Devil]

Seems to me that the author of the article by asking the question only wants to stir more anti-Duke sentiment. Hands-down, the answer is JJ.

I can't fully address the valid points and question of dukemsu, but I can say as a rare Ohio Duke fan (I have no ties to the university, only a long-time fan)that here in Ohio, Duke is seen as an elitist school with every advantage. Coach K is still resented for his tv commercials-seen as an unfair edge by many people here that I talk with. But I never hear any disparaging remarks about UNC or Ol'Roy.

It's not right but that is what I have experienced while trying to hold the line here in the north.

[jv001]

Seems to me that the author of the article by asking the question only wants to stir more anti-Duke sentiment. Hands-down, the answer is JJ.

I can't fully address the valid points and question of dukemsu, but I can say as a rare Ohio Duke fan (I have no ties to the university, only a long-time fan)that here in Ohio, Duke is seen as an elitist school with every advantage. Coach K is still resented for his tv commercials-seen as an unfair edge by many people here that I talk with. But I never hear any disparaging remarks about UNC or Ol'Roy.

It's not right but that is what I have experienced while trying to hold the line here in the north.

It used to be that way with unc but in the last 2 decades the resentment has turned a darker shade of blue(Royal blue). In the 70s and early 80s most everyone hated unc for the same reason people hate Duke now. It's because Duke has a winning program and they do it the right way. Hey I hope it continues because that means we will still be winning. Go Duke!

[Uncle Drew]

I agree with many who have said that the primary reason JJ was hated more was his size. Big guys are very rarely hated. JJ looked like a guy you might see at the gym or the grocery store. Hans looks like, well, Beaker. Not his fault, cheap shot, I know.

Anyway, I think the bigger reason is his jersey. Carolina is something of a teflon program-nothing sticks. Not an 8-20 season. People have forgotten Matt Doherty. Had Duke lost a game in the fashion UNC did at the Final Four last year, K would have had the press camped out on his lawn for 6 months. Their NBA flops (May, McCants, Forte, Wolf, on and on) get ignored. Anytime Duke loses, it's national news. Anytime a player struggles in the NBA, it's the end of the program's relevance.

None of this is news to anyone here. The question is, and this is for another thread, is why?

I have long maintained that the reason Carolina guys and teams take less heat than Duke guys and teams is that Jordan went to school there. Criticizing UNC is a tacit criticism of Jordan, and we all know most of the media is incapable or unwilling to call out Mike.

dukemsu

JJ is probably the most hated college player of all time, even more than Laettner. I saw Duke play at LJVM against Wake and a few students were screaming "F%#$ you JJ" durring the singing of the national anthem. The fact nobody stopped the few loud mouths (fellow students, faculty or LJVM employees) pretty much defines / condones hatred in my book. Laettner was hated and started what we have come to call the anti-Duke tsunami. But if Christian started it, JJ perfected it.

MSU, when you say the biggest reason JJ was hated is his jersey you are correct. The truth is if he had played at ANY other school he would not have been as loathed AND the fans of that school would have loved his attitude. When you hate the jersey a player wears, little annoying things players do are magnified. Hansbrough's Psycho T BS probably wouldn't bother me in the least if he were wearing a Clemson or Texas Tech. jersey. Brenda Haywood running down the court acting like a complete fool after a dunk (hello, you're 7 feet tall I'm more impressed you can tie your shoes than dunk!) wouldn't have been quite as irritating were he wearing a different jersey. Even Danny Green's pregame whatever the %#%#% you want to call it, where it looks like someone switched his KY with Ben Gay wouldn't be as nausiating if he weren't wearing light blue.

For quite a while I thought the whole MJ was one big reason UNC was much less hated nationally. (In state with UNC fans / grads running things it's a lot easier to understand.) But truth be told as time passes and MJ out of the spotlight or making poor draft picks for the Bobcats I think the Jordan mystique is ebbing. The truth is the anti-Duke tsunami and pro-UNC thing is mainly due to media brainwashing and propoganda. (With quite a few MD fans / grads fanning the flames.) It's a conspiracy plain and simple, but your average fan for any school other than Duke, UNC or UMD doesn't see it for what it really is and just buys into it hook line and sinker.

I'm a Cowboys fan from way back and I can see why they are loved and hated. Anything Jerry Jones and company do in the off season is news because they are so loved and loathed. And the fact I am still holding a grudge against the Yankees for the 78 world series allows me to see why they are loved and hated. When signing a pitcher is front page news in December it's because that pitcher went to a team most everyone loves or hates. MSU is right in saying if Duke had blown up in the Final Four like UNC did it would have been covered like an ellection by every media outlet. (God knows I've heard far too much about Duke's last two NCAA losses!) When Duke loses it's lead in material for ESPN, when they win it is in the second thirty minutes. And even when Duke beats UNC in hoops that story is shifted to second or third most important, when it's the other way around they will have 3 different reports about it and Stewart Scott won't be calling in sick THAT day.

The whole anti-Duke thing isn't fair, it IS a conspiracy and it isn't going away unless Duke has several losing seasons in a row. (And I for one think it would start right back up as soon as Duke started winning again.) So while we all hate the bias, like the Cowboys and Yankees in a way it's actually a compliment. If Oliver Pernell does an American Express commercial does anyone write an article about it? If Chris Bosh had been an NBA bust would it be a blip on the NBA radar? Heck if LAX had happened / not happened at ANY other school would it be as big a story? The hatred / bias is actually a warped show of respect and importance. UNC has the media buffer from ever making them as hated as Duke to anyone but us. So while it isn't fair it's something we all have to live with because it isn't going away.

[davekay1971]

This is one reason I dislike him!

That epileptic fit/celebratory dance was one of the five funniest moments of my life. My wife and I were rolling on the couch laughing at that. I have it save it my youtube favorites.

[davekay1971]

I agree with many who have said that the primary reason JJ was hated more was his size. Big guys are very rarely hated. JJ looked like a guy you might see at the gym or the grocery store. Hans looks like, well, Beaker. Not his fault, cheap shot, I know.

Anyway, I think the bigger reason is his jersey. Carolina is something of a teflon program-nothing sticks. Not an 8-20 season. People have forgotten Matt Doherty. Had Duke lost a game in the fashion UNC did at the Final Four last year, K would have had the press camped out on his lawn for 6 months. Their NBA flops (May, McCants, Forte, Wolf, on and on) get ignored. Anytime Duke loses, it's national news. Anytime a player struggles in the NBA, it's the end of the program's relevance.

None of this is news to anyone here. The question is, and this is for another thread, is why?

I have long maintained that the reason Carolina guys and teams take less heat than Duke guys and teams is that Jordan went to school there. Criticizing UNC is a tacit criticism of Jordan, and we all know most of the media is incapable or unwilling to call out Mike.

dukemsu

One relevant point is this: how much would Hansbrough be hated if he went to Duke? More, the same, or less than now? I think the answer, clearly, is more.

The hatred for Duke stems from our private school status. It's just that extra something that pushes hatred over the edge. We already would have been hated for the consistent success. All consistently successful teams are. You may have heard the exultation when App St. finally lost in the FCS playoffs this year. APP STATE! How can people hate App state? Well, they won 3 titles in a row, and people sure found a way. Combine the usual hatred-for-success with the timing that our success came right when college hoops was blossoming in popularity and ESPN was making nonstop coverage (and hyperbole) happen in sports. Then combine all that with the national perception that Duke is a school for rich, smart, white kids. It's that last factor that schools like UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, etc don't have to deal with. It gives haters a little something extra to sink their teeth in...to justify their hatred. It's also probably part of the reason why the most hated Duke players are the clean cut looking white boys. Why not hate J Will? He was a guard, he was unstoppable, he was cocky, he had a way of cutting teams' heart out with a burst of points...but he didn't look like a private school white kid.

So, if JJ had played for Carolina, we would have hated him, but the rest of the country probably wouldn't have...as much. If Hansbrough played for us (sorry...just threw up in my mouth a little) he wouldn't be hated as much as he is now.

As for MJ...the media missed a wonderful interview he had with Mark Packer on Prime Time with the Packman, in which Packer called him and asked about the Bobcats trading for Juwon Howard. I'm not sure if Jordan was asleep, drunk, or what, but he came across sounding stupid, incoherent, and, frankly, like a jerk...ending up hanging up on Packer (which was kind of funny since Packer's a jerk, too) for doing nothing more than telling him that, yes, the Bobcats acquired Howard while Jordan was out of town. A truly beautiful interview for a Carolina-hater to hear.

[Jaymf7]

This might explain the answer better.

It's a bit circular, but I'm guessing the crowd he was motioning to was not showing much love. JJ ramped up his attitude as he became more prominent (although i think I recall he had some at the McD game and before he ever set foot on a Dule floor).

Another interesting point is the effect of such attitude on a player's game. I would say that a shooter like JJ needs to have that supreme confidence to take over a game. His physical abilities will not do it. This point is affirmed by JJ's difficulties at the NBA level (which must be due to some loss of confidence as a result of injuries, lack of PT, etc.).

Hansblah, on the other hand, can just plod away and use his physical gifts and motor to take over a game. He doe snot need to think he can make any shot -- just that he will outwork everyone. I think you can argue that JJ had to be cockier to accomplish what he did.

[Acymetric]

That's doubly shocking!

I wonder if everyone here gets that...my guess is no. I think its pretty hilarious that he did that, I'd never seen that picture before.

[Uncle Drew]

"One relevant point is this: how much would Hansbrough be hated if he went to Duke? More, the same, or less than now? I think the answer, clearly, is more".

Dave is right as rain on this point. If he had gone to Duke I think he would be just about as hated as JJ but since he didn't it's not even close.


"Why not hate J Will? He was a guard, he was unstoppable, he was cocky, he had a way of cutting teams' heart out with a burst of points...but he didn't look like a private school white kid".

Another excellent point here. But I do think Duke players no matter what race or how clean cut are at least disliked because they get publicity. I remember a lot of opposing fans not carring for Battier, and part of that was due to announcers and writers heaping praise on him left and right. Remember Kris Langs "college basketball poster child" comment?

"Hansblah, on the other hand, can just plod away and use his physical gifts and motor to take over a game. He does not need to think he can make any shot -- just that he will outwork everyone. I think you can argue that JJ had to be cockier to accomplish what he did".

Jay I kind of agree with you, but I'm not sure I'd classify Tyler as "gifted". But I'm guessing by "physical gifts" you mean his ability to bang. God knows all Duke fans had to hear Shelden Williams traveled all the time but never got called for it. Most of us feel the same way about Hansbrough, but I have to say I've grown more impressed with his lateral quickness over the years. Yet it wasn't until last year against Duke that I realized he never makes any attempt to block shots and simply plays position defense. The ironic thing is that I agree completely JJ had to be more cocky. Both are not what most would consider great athletes, certainly not at the NBA level anyway.

I think the thing about Hansbrough's play I loathe is not that he is so physical per say, that is what Duke has needed and still needs under the basket in my opinion. But I have seen players have position and have him blocked out and he shoves his way to the ball like a bull in a china shop. I've heard the argument about Shaquille O'Neal that he is so big it's hard to know what is a foul and what isn't. They say the same thing applies to Hansbrough in the college game but I don't buy it. If a player has position and is blocking out I for one think it's a foul for the bigger player to shove the smaller player out of the way or do the old UNC favorite and go over the back with no foul called.

It's not just using his height and weight either, he is constantly using his arms and legs to push and get leverage as well. He is one of the most physically manipulative players I have ever seen because he is allowed to. JJ on the other hand was shoved, held and carried opposing players by his own jersey every time down the court and seldom got the call. Sure as a Duke player I'm based. But if they gave JJ free throws every time he got fouled and called Hansbrough for a foul every time he shoved or went over the back...JJ would have broken the ACC scoring mark as a Junior and Tyler wouldn't even be in the equation. (Not to mention UNC would get 8-10 more turn overs per game due to walking calls IF they actually called that kind of thing.)

[ArnieMc]

That's doubly shocking!

I wonder if everyone here gets that...my guess is no. I think its pretty hilarious that he did that, I'd never seen that picture before.

For those that didn't get it, the gesture that JJ is making with both hands is "the shocker" which is a sexually based gesture that's somewhat more explicit than the Universal Single-Finger Fertility Salute.

[RainingThrees]

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/...egoryId=245979

I pray it doesn't happen.