Lost 2009 discussion

[JulesInLA]

Well, my TiVo cut off the very last few moments of this episode.

Richard has just explained to Locke that it's 1954, and Locke is about to talk about something that's going to happen in the future.

What happens next?!?

[Duvall]

Anyone wanna guess who the young girl other who was threatening Daniel is gonna turn out to be? My wife thinks it will be the white-haired lady who was in Desmond's flashbacks and who Ben was talking to last episode. That would seem to make sense. I am not sure there are any other characters we already know who she could be. Might she be Farraday's mother? I was a bit surprised we were not given any distinguishing characteristic about her, like a piece of jewelry or a name, that would allow us to identify her in the future. Ahh well, she was too specific and unusually young to be a nobody in the future, I think.

Richard called her Ellie at one point, and Ms. Hawking (the white-haired woman from "Flashes Before Your Eyes" and "The Lie") has been identified as Eloise in the annotated episodes. So there you go.

I think it will be neat if they have flashed even further back in time. Lets go all the way back to when the Black Rock first arrived or when the 4-toed statue was being built!

100% chance we get a flash back to the arrival of the Black Rock.

[JasonEvans]

Well, my TiVo cut off the very last few moments of this episode.

Richard has just explained to Locke that it's 1954, and Locke is about to talk about something that's going to happen in the future.

What happens next?!?

Lostpedia has a fairly good synopsis of the episode.

The best part you missed was Locke inviting Richard to show up at his birth. Of course, we know from the episode near the end of season 4 that Richard will do this very thing in 2 years time and this explains why Richard was so interested in the baby/very young John Locke.

I love that the writers keep on giving us back references to stuff that happened in previous seasons. It shows me that they really have a solid plot/plan in place and they are setting us up for more surprises down the road. This is not going ahead willy-nilly-- they know EXACTLY where they are taking us.

--Jason "enjoy the ride!!" Evans

[Pacer]

When Daniel asked if they had lead to fix or concrete to encase Jughead, my first thought was all the concrete that was used to wall off the room in the Swan.

The swan is "buried" and the swan blew up. But, that doesn't explain the magnetism coming from the swan room and 1950's appears to be before Dharma came to the island and built the hatches.

[jimbonelson]

when Ellie first put the gun on Daniel and the other two she said something like"you could just could not stay away" what was that about, she did not seem to recognize him, but from previose episodes we know he has been to the island before?????

[Pacer]

when Ellie first put the gun on Daniel and the other two she said something like"you could just could not stay away" what was that about, she did not seem to recognize him, but from previose episodes we know he has been to the island before?????

At first, I also assumed that she was referring to Daniel specifically. However, as the episode went on, I assumed that reference was to the US Army generally, of which she thought Daniel was a member.

[blublood]

Richard called her Ellie at one point, and Ms. Hawking (the white-haired woman from "Flashes Before Your Eyes" and "The Lie") has been identified as Eloise in the annotated episodes. So there you go.

Oh, excellent detective work! Also the reason the rat was named Eloise, presumably.

So we know that Richard goes to see the young John Locke, but Locke doesn't pick the compass in his test - he picks the knife. Does this mean that the knife comes into play later? (or earlier?) Or - my personal hope - does it mean that there is more going on with John Locke than merely being a pawn in a time-travel loop? My husband has had a theory since season 2 that the island is actually a separate force by itself. Ben and Widmore both want to control it for selfish reasons and harness its power, but the island has its own consciousness and brought the Losties to it to rid itself of the invading forces. Sounds good, but we'll see.

When I first saw Ellie, my immediate thought was "Annie", but that seems to have been eliminated. I wonder when she will crop up again...

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

When the Other soldier turned out to be Widmore, my mind was blown. Well done Lost, it's been awhile.

Here's a question for you all, did Locke appoint himself as leader of the Others by telling Alpert that he was going to be his leader? Alpert wouldn't have known who he was otherwise and wouldn't have gone to visit him over the years. Locke did choose the wrong item when Richard tested him as a boy, so is Locke not really meant to be the leader?

Yes, Jacob spoke to him but Hurley also saw Jacob, so perhaps that club isn't quite as exclusive as it would seem.

[blublood]

What I'm beginning to not understand is why Ben was ever in the picture at all. Richard knows from 1956 or whatever that this guy named John Locke is going to appear to him claiming to be the leader of the Others... we go forward into the 70's and Ben moves to the island... if Richard knows about John Locke from the beginning, why not just make Ben another Other? Why didn't Richard find Locke when the plane first crash-landed and tell him that, in spite of all the kidnapping and stuff, that the Others were the ones Locke was supposed to lead?

[BlueDevilBaby]

I loved that the others speak Latin. No wonder we couldn't understand what they were wispering. But, after four years of it in high school, I put some of it to use last night!

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

I loved that the others speak Latin. No wonder we couldn't understand what they were wispering. But, after four years of it in high school, I put some of it to use last night!

I would have understood too, if only they had been speaking about a farmer.

[DukeDevil]

I made my first lostpedia edit! So exciting. Well, my first edit for anything wiki related. cool stuff. It was that (and I'm probably wrong).

"The painting in the receptionist's area outside Charles Widmore's office appears to be painted by or inspired by Jackson Pollock. Jughead aired on Pollock's birthday."

am I too geeky for my own good?

[mkirsh]

I don't think Locke is done having conversations with Richard Alpert in the past:

1) Locke still needs to learn how to get off the island
2) Locke needs to tell Richard when and where to find him to fix his bullet wound after Ethan shot him ("I'm here because you told me to be here")
3) I think some of the other items from the "which of these are yours John" will come into play along side the compass.

The next interaction needs to take place post the 1950's conversation and before Yemi's plan crashes, so my guess would be 1970 in the midst of the Dharma-Others conflct. Maybe Locke will even meet young Ben.

Switching gears, I'm not so sure the white haired lady is Faraday's mom. I agree that there was something strange about the ralationship with Ellie on the island and Daniel, and the names match up to the white haired lady per the post above, and she knows a thing or two about time travel and Desmond as she told him he had to go to the island and fate would not allow anything else. All that said, the one piece that doesn't add up is if she's working with Ben, why would Widmore have her contact info, and why would he give it to Desmond?

[JasonEvans]

I don't think Locke is done having conversations with Richard Alpert in the past:

1) Locke still needs to learn how to get off the island
2) Locke needs to tell Richard when and where to find him to fix his bullet wound after Ethan shot him ("I'm here because you told me to be here")
3) I think some of the other items from the "which of these are yours John" will come into play along side the compass.

The next interaction needs to take place post the 1950's conversation and before Yemi's plan crashes, so my guess would be 1970 in the midst of the Dharma-Others conflct. Maybe Locke will even meet young Ben.

The nice thing about Richard is that Nestor Carbonnel can show up in any flashback or flashforward you want -- no matter how far you go in either direction -- and it works. He will be on the show as much as Jack is this season

I fully expect to see him as First Mate on the Black Rock. You know what would be really cool? To see the young Charlie Whitmore as a fellow shipmate on the Black Rock. Yes, I would like that.

Switching gears, I'm not so sure the white haired lady is Faraday's mom. I agree that there was something strange about the ralationship with Ellie on the island and Daniel, and the names match up to the white haired lady per the post above, and she knows a thing or two about time travel and Desmond as she told him he had to go to the island and fate would not allow anything else. All that said, the one piece that doesn't add up is if she's working with Ben, why would Widmore have her contact info, and why would he give it to Desmond?

Ellie/Eloise Hawking is not necessarily working with Ben. She may just be working for the Island. I could imagine that many of these folks are just trying to protect the Island and make things right there. Eloise is helping Ben because the Island needs the Oceanic 6 to go back.

I would also add that if I was Charles Whitmore and my beloved daughter had disappeared for 3 years and then the guy who was with her had shown up on my doorstep, I'd be damn sure I knew exactly where he was going next so I could keep an eye on him. What does Whitmore have to lose by sending Desmond off to find Faraday's mom? Heck, if nothing else, it raises the chance that Desmond will go back to the Island giving Penny back to her father.

I think it is pretty much certain that Ellie (young version in the 1950s) and Eloise (old lady with Ben) are the same person, right? They wear their hair exactly the same and they have the same names. The only question is whether they are Daniel's mother. Toward that end, I would remind everyone of the episode, "The Constant," where Desmond visits Daniel at Oxford and Daniel is doing an experiment on a rat. Daniel sends the rat's brain through time so the rat can figure out how to get through a maze but then explains that the rat will die because it needs a "constant" to be connected to someone. It is a big deal moment on Lost and some of you may have forgotten a key detail in that scene. Daniel tells us that the rat's name is Eloise.

Also, Ben is in LA (with Jack, Kate, Sayid, Sun, and the arrested Hurley). We have to assume that Ben goes to meet with Mrs. Eloise Hawking in LA as well. And, now Whitmore has sent Desmond to LA to find Faraday's mother.

I won't even get into Daniel's reaction to the young Ellie -- he stares at her, refuses to tell her his name, and when she implies he may be romantically interested in her his response is, "far from it." He knows he is meeting his mother.

The evidence that Eloise Hawking is Daniel Faraday's mother is overwhelming in my mind.

--Jason "I love Lost sleuthing!!" Evans

[-bdbd]

I would also add that if I was Charles Whitmore and my beloved daughter had disappeared for 3 years and then the guy who was with her had shown up on my doorstep, I'd be damn sure I knew exactly where he was going next so I could keep an eye on him. What does Whitmore have to lose by sending Desmond off to find Faraday's mom? Heck, if nothing else, it raises the chance that Desmond will go back to the Island giving Penny back to her father.

You would think Whidmore would be aware of the link between Eloise and Ben, no? Whhidore's chief worry re. Penny stems from Ben's threat to find Whidmore's daughter and kill her, as retribution for his own daughter's murder, (made in season 3?) in a flash-forward in Charles' bedroom. So I too am surprised that he'd be sending Penny's husband (and probably Penny) anywhere near where Ben might be.

BTW, in that vein, have we figured out yet why Ben couldn't kill Whidmore?

To the earlier post, about why Ben became the leader -- any number of explanations, but certainly SOMEONE had to lead the OTHERS until Locke's arrival. (Who are we to judge the Island's choice of timing??)

P.S. I too wouldn't be surprised to see a time-travel incident witnessing the arrival of the Black Rock, and certainly a meeting with Locke and Richard circa 1970 (+/- 10 years) - caveat: The little drug plane doesn't have to have crashed yet for Locke to tell Richard to meet him there...

-BDBD

[CameronBornAndBred]

Still, I could easily see the buried bomb coming into play down the road... it almost has to.

We don't know that it's buried, we only know it's not still hanging where we last saw it.
My favorite character is quickly becoming Miles. They need to explain a little bit more of his medium abilities, but I love his attitude...or anti-attitude. I hope they don't have plans to kill him off any time soon.
I'm assuming we are going to have an LA-centric turn next, and find out how they get Hurley out of his current predicament. (Obviously he can't stay incarcerated)

[CameronBornAndBred]

At first, I also assumed that she was referring to Daniel specifically. However, as the episode went on, I assumed that reference was to the US Army generally, of which she thought Daniel was a member.

I think that is correct. Good job of the writers to make this one a head scratcher.

[A-Tex Devil]

It's WIDMORE. Not Whidmore, Whitmore, Sheldon or Reddick... carry on.


(BTW -- Maybe Widmore can't die for the same reasons Michael couldn't? I bet he got kicked off the island and is trying to get back)

[Pacer]

Maybe Widmore can't die for the same reasons Michael couldn't? I bet he got kicked off the island and is trying to get back)

I'm thinking Widmore can't die because he does get back to the island at some point, and Ben has seen him come back to the island at some point when Widmore is older.. Ben knows he can't alter events in time, so Ben knows that if he attempts to kill Widmore, then much like Ben's attempt to kill Locke, the flow of time will not allow it.

[crimsondevil]

What I'm beginning to not understand is why Ben was ever in the picture at all. Richard knows from 1956 or whatever that this guy named John Locke is going to appear to him claiming to be the leader of the Others... we go forward into the 70's and Ben moves to the island... if Richard knows about John Locke from the beginning, why not just make Ben another Other? Why didn't Richard find Locke when the plane first crash-landed and tell him that, in spite of all the kidnapping and stuff, that the Others were the ones Locke was supposed to lead?

A couple of possibilities:
1. Richard thought John was a fraud after as a boy he failed to recognize the compass. Why Richard would expect John to recognize it is beyond me.
2. Perfect cop-out for any Other: Jacob told Richard to do what he did.