Lost 2009 discussion

[JasonEvans]

So far, we've seen Richard Alpert and Mr. Friendly be able to leave and come back. Anyone else? (possibly Charlotte, but if so, that's been far from easily done.)

Methinks that Richard's connection to the Island is verrry different from Ben or Locke.

Did I forget something about Charlotte? What gives you the impression that she has been there before?

-Jason "10 hours and 46 minutes... tick, tick" Evans

[blublood]

I am *so* excited. It's been, like, almost a year!

Although I will say that I have to agree with some other folks - the whole excitement of "Lost" was all about 'what's up with this creepy island?' and 'what will happen next?' I personally don't know if they can sustain that when half of your story is just about the O6 being in the real world and wanting to get back to the island. I especially hated the scene in the season finale with Sun slipping Widmore a business card (a *business* card? C'mon...) and talking about their "common interests"... I really hope we do not get more of that.

Also, Ben has been off the island before - remember the picture of him at that copier machine that Miles held up? And all his passports? He has been coming and going quite a bit, and there's nothing to indicate that it hasn't been by choice so far.

[ncexnyc]

Did I forget something about Charlotte? What gives you the impression that she has been there before?

-Jason "10 hours and 46 minutes... tick, tick" Evans

I believe the poster was referencing the conversation, which took place during the final episode, where Charlotte was having a discussion with the Asian guy (Miles?). Seems our ghostbuster buddy picked up some type of vibes from Charlotte indicating she had either been on the island before or had some type of special connection to it.

[ncexnyc]

So far, we've seen Richard Alpert and Mr. Friendly be able to leave and come back. Anyone else? (possibly Charlotte, but if so, that's been far from easily done.)

Ethan Rom? I know he was recruited to the island, but I seem to recall mention of him having been off.

[mkirsh]

I re-watched the season 4 finale last night as a refresher, very excited for tonight.

Jason, on your question about Charlotte, there was much message board speculation last year that Charlotte had been on the island before, and the show hinted at it in the finale. There is a scene when Daniel is urging her to get on the last raft out, and Miles says something to her like "why do you want to leave after you tried so hard to get back here", to which she replies "what do you mean 'back here'?", and Miles answers, sarcastically of course, "what do I mean...?" and walks away. Later she tells Daniel that she wants to stay as she is still looking for the place where she was born.

[blublood]

He has been - he was living in Juliet's building shortly before she was "recruited" into Dharma or Mittelos or whatever they called themselves in that incarnation. He was also the guy who handed her a tissue when her ex was run over by a bus.

Edit: sorry - referencing ncexnyc's post above.

[A-Tex Devil]

What gives you that impression? I am far from convinced that the times we have seen Ben off the island have been times when he could go back to the island. In fact, I think all the times we have seen him off the island (except when he was young) have been post "donkey wheel."

I may be forgetting something though. Feel free to educate me.

-Jason "I have read that we will get answers very soon into the season premier-- I hope that does not ruin things" Evans

I am pretty sure Ben has been hopping on and off the island. Why have all that money and his passports in that secret room? I think there was a photo that Widmore's men or someone had of him walking through airport security somewhere.

I think the point of Ben not being able to return was that when he did the "frozen donkey wheel," it hides the island. Those on the island that know how to transport themselves on and off can still go back and forth. And I bet Alpert and his band of Others can still move back and forth, so they'll be important this year.

My view is that at some point after the purge, the island was hidden from Widmore (and Dharma). Ben, and "the Others" that were left on the island that knew how to hop back and forth before could still do it. But if you leave the island, and then it moves (like what happened to Ben when he landed in the desert), it's nearly impossible to find, and is why Widmore has been looking for it for so long.

My rambling $0.02.

[cato]

So far, we've seen Richard Alpert and Mr. Friendly be able to leave and come back.

I have forgotten a whole lot about Lost, but what makes you say we've seen Richard Alpert leave and come back? Is there any evidence that he has actually done that?

[ncexnyc]

I have forgotten a whole lot about Lost, but what makes you say we've seen Richard Alpert leave and come back? Is there any evidence that he has actually done that?

Richard was present when John was born and he later visted him several years later and tested him for recruitment.

[dcarp23]

I have forgotten a whole lot about Lost, but what makes you say we've seen Richard Alpert leave and come back? Is there any evidence that he has actually done that?

Didn't he go recruit Juliet? I know Ethan did...

[A-Tex Devil]

Read this and laugh...

Funny Lost Recap

[Pacer]

I have forgotten a whole lot about Lost, but what makes you say we've seen Richard Alpert leave and come back? Is there any evidence that he has actually done that?

Specifically, we saw Alpert greet Ben in the woods when Ben was a boy and Alpert started to recruit Ben. (On island)

Then, we saw him recruit Juliet, clearly later and off island, and we know he's now on the island at the same time as Juliet.

Regarding my earlier comment re:Charlotte, the subsequent posters pretty much got it with Miles and Charlotte's conversation. Also, Charlotte's conversation with Daniel was what I was referencing as well.
He asked her why she wanted to stay, and her response was something like "I know it doesn't make sense, but I'm still looking for where I was born." It seemed to imply that by finding the island Daniel would have assumed that Charlotte's quest to find where she was born was finished. But, Charlotte was indicating that she wanted more details and didn't feel finished.


Also, that's a good point about Ben having all the passports in his sub-closet, but I don't think we've seen anything.

[cato]

Specifically, we saw Alpert greet Ben in the woods when Ben was a boy and Alpert started to recruit Ben. (On island)

Then, we saw him recruit Juliet, clearly later and off island, and we know he's now on the island at the same time as Juliet.

I realize that we have seen him both on and off the island, but is there any evidence that this is a result of him travelling back and forth between the island, as opposed to being in different places at similar times? I have no sense of what the rules are for Lost time travel.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I still have not finished watching all of season 4 yet, I've been at my computer for hours watching them all. I turned the premiere on, then turned it off, deciding I want to see it all up to the end first. I'll download it tomorrow.

[Rich]

Who was the older woman that Ben was talking to at the end of last night's second episode? Do we know her already?

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

Who was the older woman that Ben was talking to at the end of last night's second episode? Do we know her already?

Yes, Ms. Dawkins.

She was the one that was in the store when Desmond tried to buy Penny a ring. She told him that he would have to push a button to save the world on the island and there was nothing he could do about it.


Also, the physicist (Don't know why I can't remember his name - maybe the island changing times is messing with my memory!) mentioned Desmond had to find his mother. I don't know if Ms. Dawkins would end up being his mother or not - that might be too obvious a conclusion. It seemed from Ben's tone that he is deferring to her - she might be the real brains behind all Ben's decisions - or most of them. Who knows. Can't wait to see how it unfolds.

Could anyone post the screen shots of the map she was working with that was being drawn by the hanging pendulum thing?

[blublood]

WARNING: this post contains spoilers
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O.k., you've been warned!
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Anyways - I actually really did not like this episode. Last season they had built it up like something terrible happened to the people still on the beach. Something terrible still may happen to them, but just being pursued by Dharma Initiative people or having flaming arrows shot at them? I mean, it's really not very bad. It feels like there's nothing at stake, even with the obvious foreshadowing with Charlotte and her nosebleed.

Also, it seems like the writers' touch with the human elements of the story has let them down. The whole deal with Sawyer flipping out I thought was way overdone (and could the set-up be any more obvious for Juliet and Sawyer to get together??). I get that they're speeding up the pace of storytelling, but it seems like the human connection has gotten a little buried in the process.

Also, I don't understand why Desmond would have no memory whatsoever of meeting Daniel Faraday. That makes no sense when he saw him at Cambridge in 1999 and then again on the island at whatever time he was on the island in the Hatch. The producers have hinted that there is a tension between "no one can change the future" and yet "we have to go back", so perhaps they will get around to explaining this later.

[ncexnyc]

Blublood you've touched upon an issue, which has drawn some debate among Lost fans.

There was quite a great deal of discussion on Season 4 and the effect the writers strike had on the show. The true hardcore fans, the ones who picked apart every scene with a fine tooth comb, felt they were cheated and the quality of the show declined due to the compacted nature of Season 4.

On the other hand, casual viewers felt the pacing of the show improved greatly and things became more action packed.

I have to agree with you, the human nature of the show, the reason we became tied to the various characters and the show in the first place has suffered.

My only gripe with last nights premire, is it seemed they tried to bombard us with to much. It will definitely take several watching to digest all that was shown yesterday.

[JasonEvans]

Also, I don't understand why Desmond would have no memory whatsoever of meeting Daniel Faraday. That makes no sense when he saw him at Cambridge in 1999 and then again on the island at whatever time he was on the island in the Hatch. The producers have hinted that there is a tension between "no one can change the future" and yet "we have to go back", so perhaps they will get around to explaining this later.

Faraday said that Desmond was "different" or something like that. It is clear to me that Desmond sorta/somewhat moves through time the same way the Island does. That is why Faraday could talk to him in the past and Desmond would not remember it until he was in the future and the information could be acted upon.

I have a problem with some of the time travel stuff though. For example, Locke kills one (or more?) of the Dharma folks who were attacking Juliet and Sawyer. Well, what happens to all the things that Dharma person was supposed to do in the future if he had not been killed by a time-travelling Locke? I suppose the answer is, "whatever you do in the past was supposed to happen and you had to do it." Of course, that means that changing the past is impossible as Dr. Candle/Hallowax seemed to indicate when he scoffed at the notion of killing Hitler right before he brushed shoulders with Faraday.

I was somewhat underwhelmed with these episodes too. They were good and we are starting to get some fascinating answers/directions for the story, but I think missing the flashbacks/flashforwards meant that the episodes did not feel as emotional. More action, less humanity. Not sure that is a good thing.

I knew the woman at the end would be Mrs. Hawking. I figured they were showing us Faraday's mother -- and I still think she might be his mom -- but I knew it was her. She has shown up a couple times in Desmond's time-travels.

I can't wait for Locke to run into Richard and tell Richard that he has to save Locke in the future. Whew, this time travel stuff could be tough to keep up with!

So, Ben has 70 hours to find and convince the Oceanic 6 to come back to the island. I am betting that he won't have much trouble convincing them, though Sun will only go because she is now working with Widmore. I am betting she is a "bad guy" of sorts who wants to help Widmore find the Island again but that once she gets back to the Island she will find that Jin is still alive and she will tell everyone about Widmore's plans.

--Jason "loved bringing Anna Lucia back! I bet Charlie makes another appearance some time soon too" Evans

[blublood]

FWIW, when my husband saw the crazy swinging thing in Mrs. Hawking's office, he immediately said, "Oh, no way, a Foucault's Pendulum?" And it seems that he is exactly right - if you look it up on Wikipedia, you can see that this would have some quite interesting applications to the show.