Lance Thomas' Inside Offensive Game

[Mudge]

Yes, Lance had his best offensive game ever, yesterday; yes, Lance, after a rough start, appears to have improved his FT shooting (very high arc on those FTs, but physicists will tell you that, from a theoretical perspective, you want to shoot with more arc than most players-- like Shaq, for example-- normally use); however, I have noticed that Lance still gets blocked on inside shots down under the basket an awful lot for someone who is 6'8" (and appears able to jump well enough), sometimes by players smaller than him.

Why is this? Is he bringing the ball down too low? Is he getting of the floor too slowly? Is he telegraphing his moves? Is he making too many fake attempts, and allowing defenders to collapse on him, instead of just going right up strongly with the shot? Maybe it's his footwork, or his repetoire of inside moves? Or is he not a good jumper? He often uses multiple head and ball fakes in an attempt to get the defender off his feet, yet even then, Lance is often still blocked on the eventual shot. He seems like he should be big enough, athletic enough, and strong enough that he should be able to power through some of these block attempts and score, but often he ends up with a blocked shot (or a jump ball)-- any ideas on the reason?

[mo.st.dukie]

I haven't really noticed him getting blocked too many times although he does get the ball stripped from him occassionally. His ability to catch and finish is a lot better than last year though, a lot better. I still think there are times where he pump fakes when he should just go right up with it but he brings the ball down. I haven't seen it from him a whole lot though compared to last season. This year he is catching the ball and able to finish strong with either a dunk or layup even with a lot of contact. It's not going to be this instant thing where he's automatically able to do everything perfectly, it's a process and there will be times when he reverts back to his old ways but little by little (or a lot in the case of Friday's game) he'll improve. Overall, he has become so much better this year.

[davekay1971]

I'm so thrilled with Lance's increased productivity and confidence that I can't bring myself to quibble about anything with him. He makes a great contrast in size, speed, and style to Zoubs and Plumlee. With Zoubs and Thomas both playing well, we can adjust our lineup readily to give matchup problems to our competition.

[Jumbo]

Sounds like you're describing Lance Thomas from his first two seasons, not this year.

[pfrduke]

Yes, Lance had his best offensive game ever, yesterday; yes, Lance, after a rough start, appears to have improved his FT shooting (very high arc on those FTs, but physicists will tell you that, from a theoretical perspective, you want to shoot with more arc than most players-- like Shaq, for example-- normally use); however, I have noticed that Lance still gets blocked on inside shots down under the basket an awful lot for someone who is 6'8" (and appears able to jump well enough), sometimes by players smaller than him.

Why is this? Is he bringing the ball down too low? Is he getting of the floor too slowly? Is he telegraphing his moves? Is he making too many fake attempts, and allowing defenders to collapse on him, instead of just going right up strongly with the shot? Maybe it's his footwork, or his repetoire of inside moves? Or is he not a good jumper? He often uses multiple head and ball fakes in an attempt to get the defender off his feet, yet even then, Lance is often still blocked on the eventual shot. He seems like he should be big enough, athletic enough, and strong enough that he should be able to power through some of these block attempts and score, but often he ends up with a blocked shot (or a jump ball)-- any ideas on the reason?

Here's a fun fact - Lance Thomas has had 2 field goal attempts blocked this year. One was by Zach Gibson of Michigan, who is 6'10". The other was by Kenith Ward of Georgia Southern, who is 6'6" (and who recorded another block in that game as well). So apparently, when you say "often" and "an awful lot," you mean twice in seven games and 34 field goal attempts, and when you say "sometimes by players smaller than him," you mean once. Perhaps your perception from the past couple seasons is clouding your appraisal of this season's first seven games?

As an aside, Lance had a finish in traffic on a post move that took him into a double/triple team on Friday where he created space, went up strong, and scored the bucket. It was a move he would not have successfully completed in the last two seasons, and showed the development in both his footwork and his strength.

[Mudge]

Here's a fun fact - Lance Thomas has had 2 field goal attempts blocked this year. One was by Zach Gibson of Michigan, who is 6'10". The other was by Kenith Ward of Georgia Southern, who is 6'6" (and who recorded another block in that game as well). So apparently, when you say "often" and "an awful lot," you mean twice in seven games and 34 field goal attempts, and when you say "sometimes by players smaller than him," you mean once. Perhaps your perception from the past couple seasons is clouding your appraisal of this season's first seven games?

As an aside, Lance had a finish in traffic on a post move that took him into a double/triple team on Friday where he created space, went up strong, and scored the bucket. It was a move he would not have successfully completed in the last two seasons, and showed the development in both his footwork and his strength.

Fair point about past years clouding current appraisals-- is it possible that in counting the instances this year, you have included only those times when Lance was blocked, but did not draw the foul? I perceived that it had happened more than twice this year, but perhaps a couple of those times Lance drew a foul, and therefore the block did not "count" as a block. (Though it is still somewhat disconcerting to have a smaller player completely snuff the shot of a power forward under the basket, when you would instead be hoping for a 3-point play, as the hated Hansbrough is often able to pull off.)

[SupaDave]

Here's a fun fact - Lance Thomas has had 2 field goal attempts blocked this year. One was by Zach Gibson of Michigan, who is 6'10". The other was by Kenith Ward of Georgia Southern, who is 6'6" (and who recorded another block in that game as well). So apparently, when you say "often" and "an awful lot," you mean twice in seven games and 34 field goal attempts, and when you say "sometimes by players smaller than him," you mean once. Perhaps your perception from the past couple seasons is clouding your appraisal of this season's first seven games?

As an aside, Lance had a finish in traffic on a post move that took him into a double/triple team on Friday where he created space, went up strong, and scored the bucket. It was a move he would not have successfully completed in the last two seasons, and showed the development in both his footwork and his strength.

Just plain excellent research there...

Not even sure how one could find fault right now. His free throw shooting is immaculate at this point in time as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if he shoots them granny style as long as they go in.

Lance has always been vocal and with his development we should only expect greater things as his confidence AND strength develops.

Just think - next year we just might be debating Lance's draft position if he keeps this up.

[dukelifer]

Just plain excellent research there...

Not even sure how one could find fault right now. His free throw shooting is immaculate at this point in time as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if he shoots them granny style as long as they go in.

Lance has always been vocal and with his development we should only expect greater things as his confidence AND strength develops.

Just think - next year we just might be debating Lance's draft position if he keeps this up.

If Lance stays perfect the rest of the year averaging 20+, we will be debating his draft position this year

[Jumbo]

Just think - next year we just might be debating Lance's draft position if he keeps this up.

Uh, let's not go crazy here ...

[DukeBlood]

Just plain excellent research there...

Not even sure how one could find fault right now. His free throw shooting is immaculate at this point in time as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if he shoots them granny style as long as they go in.

Lance has always been vocal and with his development we should only expect greater things as his confidence AND strength develops.

Just think - next year we just might be debating Lance's draft position if he keeps this up.

Lance has been great for sure. Without a doubt the biggest surprise this year.

I have been wrong with lance so far. I looked up his numbers and he is averaging 9.3 PPG and 4.3 RPG doing this in 18 MPG. If he can keep this up along with continual improvement from Brian and Miles then this team may be able to be a decent post team.

As far as him being drafted. I dont see that happening. He has taking advantage of put-backs, fast breaks and other easy opportunities. Its not very often he has just completely schooled his man, Though it's happened.

[SupaDave]

I hear ya Jumbo but we've got to see who comes out this year. Not just that but his motor could be an NBA must have.

I mean - no one could have told me Shavlik Randolph would have even made an NBA roster - but there he is - and performing.

These are HUGE what ifs but with another good off-season and a 15 footer the guy could get some looks - not necessarily get drafted.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Is there any possibility that he's had some good coaching along with his good health?

[vb5678]

I would also like to mention that getting blocked by players big and small is a fact of life in post play. I only have stats from the NBA, but lets take the example of Dwight Howard, a 6-11 beast with nearly unmatched athleticism who is perhaps the best center in the NBA. According to 82games.com, he gets blocked on 10% of his shot attempts, translating to a little more than one block against per game. If a player with his abilities gets blocked that often, I don't think I'd be too unhappy with Lance's 2 blocks against in 7 games so far (although to be fair, Howard has to go up against much better post defenses than Lance has so far this year).

[Jumbo]

I hear ya Jumbo but we've got to see who comes out this year. Not just that but his motor could be an NBA must have.

I mean - no one could have told me Shavlik Randolph would have even made an NBA roster - but there he is - and performing.

These are HUGE what ifs but with another good off-season and a 15 footer the guy could get some looks - not necessarily get drafted.

Shavlik Randolph was 6'10", never healthy at Duke and a top-rated H.S. recruit. Lance is a skinny 6'8", making him a perimeter player at the NBA level, and he's never shown any perimeter skills. Can we please stop talking about Lance's NBA prospects after one good performance against Duquesne and focus on how his improvement can help Duke?

[pfrduke]

Fair point about past years clouding current appraisals-- is it possible that in counting the instances this year, you have included only those times when Lance was blocked, but did not draw the foul? I perceived that it had happened more than twice this year, but perhaps a couple of those times Lance drew a foul, and therefore the block did not "count" as a block. (Though it is still somewhat disconcerting to have a smaller player completely snuff the shot of a power forward under the basket, when you would instead be hoping for a 3-point play, as the hated Hansbrough is often able to pull off.)

That's entirely possible. The game log doesn't reflect how a player ends up at the free throw line. Although that in and of itself merits two points: 1) it's hard to blame a guy for not getting a three-point play when he gets fouled, as fouling generally interferes with making the basket; 2) if the worst thing we can say about Thomas' game this year is that he doesn't convert and-ones as well as Hansbrough, who's probably better at doing that than any other player in the country, we should be extremely pleased with the way Thomas has played.

Ok, more research. The game log doesn't reflect how he got fouled, but it does show who fouled him. Those players would be: Travis Sligh, Presbyterian (6'4", 210); Kyle Jazwiecki, Presbyterian (6'8", 220) - note, this was an and-one; Antoine Johnson, Georgia Southern (6'0", 190); Trumaine Pearson, Georgia Southern (6'8", 225); Sandy Perry, Georgia Southern (6'7", 220) - twice; Kahiem Seawright, URI (6'8", 235); CJ Lee, Michigan (6'0", 180); Manny Harris, Michigan (6'5", 185); Brian Qvale, Montana (6'11", 245); Damian Saunders, Duquesne (6'7", 210); Jason Duty, Duquesne (6'1", 185) - note, this was an and-one; BJ Monteiro, Duquesne (6'5", 195) - twice, one was an and-one, the other was the intentional and-two. No game log for the Southern Illinois game.

Not counting SIU, Thomas has been fouled 14 times. 7 of those is by players essentially his size or bigger. 4 were and-ones, which means 28.6% of the time he gets fouled he converts the attempt. I have no idea what the stats are for other inside players, but 30% conversion rate when you get fouled strikes me as good, if not very good.

Now, it's possible that one of the smaller guys who fouled him "completely snuff[ed] out" his shot; of course, it's hard to blame Lance too much for this, given that they needed to foul him in order to be able to accomplish this.

[speedevil]

Uh, let's not go crazy here ...

maybe he goes pro after this year

[bludvlman]

He is scoring now b/c he is going up with power and got stronger in the offseason.

That said: Has Lance Thomas ever made a shot from the field that isn't a lay up or dunk? I don't think I've ever seen him make a jumper.

[heyman25]

If he could add an 8 to 12 ft jump shot that would be great for the team. I think this was the player they saw in High School and for whatever reason he is breaking out in his 3rd season.

[RainingThrees]

If he could add an 8 to 12 ft jump shot that would be great for the team. I think this was the player they saw in High School and for whatever reason he is breaking out in his 3rd season.

The reason is easy. Not too many guys were as tall as he was in high school and his lack of strength was not a problem in high school. In college he is even in height and was weaker until this year.

[camion]

One might also mention that he was injured last year.