Here is the Duke men's bball schedule:
Mon, Nov 10 Presbyterian W 80-49
Tue, Nov 11 Georgia Southern W 97-54
Sun, Nov 16 Rhode Island W 82-79
Thu, Nov 20 Southern Ill.
Fri, Nov 21 Michigan W 71-56
Sun, Nov 23 Montana W 78-58
Fri, Nov 28 Duquesne
Tue, Dec 2 at (10) Purdue
Sat, Dec 6 at Michigan
Wed, Dec 17 N.C. Asheville
Sat, Dec 20 at (16) Xavier
Wed, Dec 31 Loyola (MD)
Sun, Jan 4 Virginia Tech
Wed, Jan 7 (24) Davidson
Sat, Jan 10 at Florida St.
Wed, Jan 14 at Georgia Tech
Sat, Jan 17 (21) Georgetown
Tue, Jan 20 N.C. State 8:00 pm
Sat, Jan 24 Maryland 12:00 pm
Wed, Jan 28 at (19) Wake Forest
Sun, Feb 1 Virginia 2:00 pm
Wed, Feb 4 at Clemson 9:00 pm
Sat, Feb 7 (22) Miami (FL) 1:30 pm
Wed, Feb 11 (1) North Carolina
Sun, Feb 15 at Boston Coll.
Thu, Feb 19 at St. John's
Sun, Feb 22 (19) Wake Forest
Wed, Feb 25 at Maryland
Sat, Feb 28 at Virginia Tech
Tue, Mar 3 Florida St.
Sun, Mar 8 at (1) North Carolina
Here is UNC's:
Sat, Nov 15 Pennsylvania W 86-71
Tue, Nov 18 Kentucky W 77-58
Fri, Nov 21 at UCSB W 84-67
Mon, Nov 24 at Chaminade
Tue, Nov 25 Oregon
Sun, Nov 30 N.C. Asheville
Wed, Dec 3 at (5) Michigan St.
Sat, Dec 13 Oral Roberts
Thu, Dec 18 Evansville
Sat, Dec 20 at Valparaiso
Sun, Dec 28 Rutgers
Wed, Dec 31 at Nevada
Sun, Jan 4 Boston Coll.
Wed, Jan 7 Charleston
Sun, Jan 11 at (19) Wake Forest
Thu, Jan 15 at Virginia
Sat, Jan 17 (22) Miami (FL)
Wed, Jan 21 Clemson
Wed, Jan 28 at Florida St.
Sat, Jan 31 at N.C. State
Tue, Feb 3 Maryland
Sat, Feb 7 Virginia
Wed, Feb 11 at (7) Duke
Sun, Feb 15 at (22) Miami (FL)
Wed, Feb 18 N.C. State
Sat, Feb 21 at Maryland
Sat, Feb 28 Georgia Tech
Wed, Mar 4 at Virginia Tech
Sun, Mar 8 (7) Duke
Duke currently has 4 out of conference opponents in the top 25, with St John's at 4-1 with a solid start and potentially a sleeper team.
Carolina, on the other hand, has 1 team scheduled that is in the top 25, and only another one possible due to early season tournies (Duke had a potential one as well in UCLA before they lost to Michigan).
What I want to know is, why does the media fall in love with teams that have tons of talent, but refuse to schedule any tough non-conference games? This is not anything new for UNC, as they regularly schedule pushovers out of conference, teams just good enough to boost the Tar Heels RPI due to their otherwise dominance in their small conferences (see: UNCA, Evansville, Charleston), but teams that are normally very little match for the perennial "pre-season National Champs."
Duke used to be guilty of the same years ago if I remember correctly, but Coach K decided that his teams needed to be battle tested and started getting mid-season meat in his scheduling.
I guess this is more of a rhetorical vent than anything, but just wanted to see if anyone else was on this mind train.
Last edited by FerryFor50; 11-25-2008 at 11:02 AM. Reason: emboldened top 25 games
All my Carolina friends are so full of their team. Whenever I talk to them about the schedules they say it doesn't matter because they would beat any team they play. I really like how K has scheduled tough teams and that will help us during tourney play.
It's raining threes in chapel hill!!!
You didn't list a probable match up of UNC vs. either Texas or Notre Dame in Maui.
I think also that the problems with the program at UK probably hurt UNC's scheduling this year. That should have been a tougher test.
That said, I do believe that we have the stronger schedule this year. In years past I have to admit to feeling like there was a lean toward UNC having stronger schedules mainly because they seemed more willing to go into hostile territory while we played a lot of neutral site games, or at Cameron.
I love the @ Xavier game this year. We could lose that game, but I think it will serve to make the team better than whipping Montana in Cameron. And we could easily win it, which would make it an even better teaching experience.
Regardless of what they do tonight, the Heels will play either Texas(7) or Notre Dame(8) tomorrow. I like the Devils OOC schedule and there will some interesting games to watch. Whether scheduling top teams makes any difference to the real good teams like Duke or UNC come the NCAAT is open for discussion. I would take a couple of losses early in the season if we are playing well late in the ACC portion of the schedule.
The Xavier game is a neutral court game in NJ, not at the Cintas Center. It would have been a HUGE deal for X to get a home game with Duke. Cintas is a very, very tough place to play too. But I believe this game is to replace Duke's annual Madison Square game, since they already played there in the tourney they just won. Just fyi. Still will be a tough, tough game, as X could be in the top 15 by then.
Yes, Duke's schedule is better than UNC's schedule, and it bothers me when people say "I wish we would schedule a Kentucky like UNC does," because Xavier - and Purdue, and Davidson, and Georgetown - are just better than Kentucky, period.
But let's not stretch it. St. John's does not have a solid start and they're not a sleeper team. They're awful, and you really shouldn't even mention them if you want to argue that Duke's non conference schedule is good.
And UNCA, Charleston, and Evansville are dominant in their conferences? Since when? Besides, Duke still schedules these same types of teams - Montana, Rhode Island, and.... UNCA.
I hate the unearned crowing by the Carolina crowd this time of year, too. They escaped the Gauchos and killed Chamalamadingdong...awesome.
But fortunately this is college basketball, where we all get to sort it out in the ACC and NCAA tournaments. UNC is the defending ACC champion based on the ACC tournament last year, and we've got to take that away from them. Neither of us have had much to brag about in the NCAA's the last 2 years - us by losing early, them by losing later in much more spectacular fashion.
So don't sweat the early season hype or relative schedule strengths. Hopefully we'll be helped by tougher competition out of conference, and hopefully UNC will suffer at least four losses this year: 3 to Duke (1 giving us the ACC tournament title) and 1 in the NCAAs, the earlier the better. GTHC.
In the last couple of years the argument was made that UNC had a vastly tougher schedule than ours. That may or may not be true. Be that as it may, it is not fair to accuse UNC for having a weak schedule on the basis of one year's outcome.
I am not defending UNC by any means.....9f, 9f!!!
But our schedule in the 2000's hasn't been exactly one to brag about either. In K's early years ('80's and 90's), you could make an argument that Duke always scheduled tougher vs el Deano, but that does not hold true any longer. It might have to do with revenue, the difficulty in scheduling home and homes, and other major conference players being unwilling to play in CIS.
Who knows? But this year our schedule looks good, should draw good TV ratings, and will ultimately pay off with dividends of more TV viewer demand, which is good for all of us.
Actual RPI strength of schedule rankings for the last 10 years:
2008 -- Duke 8 (nationally), UNC 3
2007 -- Duke 3, UNC 4
2006 -- Duke 1, UNC 10
2005 -- Duke 4, UNC 18
2004 -- Duke 4, UNC 5
2003 -- Duke 32, UNC 10
2002 -- Duke 26, UNC 5
2001 -- Duke 6, UNC 14
2000 -- Duke 23, UNC 13
1999 -- Duke 3, UNC 2
I know UNC fans make the case that their schedule has been vastly better than Duke's over the last decade ... but that doesn't make it true. The evidence is that both teams have played consistently strong schedules. UNC's was slightly better in five seasons, Duke's has been better in five seasons -- including four of the last five.
As for Duke having nothing to brag about -- I think playing one of the nation's top six toughest schedules in six of 10 years (with no schedule outside the top 10 percent of Division 1 schedules) is pretty impressive.
At the moment, Duke's 2008-09 schedule looks tougher. Based on today's coaches poll, Duke has the following games lined up:
1. at UNC
9. at Purdue
20. Xavier (n)
24. at Wake
Plus three games against "other teams receiving votes" -- Clemson, Michigan (n) and at Michigan.
By contrast to Duke's nine games against ranked opponents, UNC has seven:
5. at Duke
6. Michigan State (in Ford Field)
either No. 7 Notre Dame or No. 8 Texas (in Maui)
21. at Miami
24. at Wake
The only game against a team receiving votes is a single home game with Clemson.
Obviously, those poll things will change ... but just as obviously, both teams have impressive overall schedules.
And the next time a Carolina fans brings up the scheduling "big lie" tell him to stuff it.
I believe Winthrop won the Big South last year, not UNCA. They tied in the regular season, and Winthrop beat UNCA in the tournament for the championship.
The only point of my post was to disagree that we consistently have tougher schedules than UNC based upon this season's non-conference opponents. Historically, we have had tougher schedules than UNC. However, basing it on only this year is not fair.
BUT, I think most people on this board would agree that our non-conference foes of late have not been the same as those in K's early years (or so it seems). The non-conference battle-royale's have been missimg, and a lot has to do with traditional powers we play not achieving their normal status (Michigan, St Johns, Kentucky, a few others).
Bending the RPI is a talent our schedule makers definitely have. In general, it means avoiding teams with RPI's lower than 150-200. So, basing our schedule strength on RPI is like saying the BCS computer system has no flaws.
UNC fan here. Don't worry, I'm a rational, relatively well-behaved one, I swear. I wanted to post in response to this thread, which I think mischaracterizes the "complaint" of my fellow Heels re: Duke's early season schedule.
The vast majority the whining I've heard about Duke's early scheduling revolves around the fact that Duke doesn't- or at least didn't- play road games prior to January. The notion was/is that Coach K was not preparing his team for the hostile crowds they would face later in the season by playing most games in Cameron, with a couple visits to the Meadowlands or MSG mixed in (I think we can all agree that Duke backers make up the vast majority of the crowd against almost any opponent in a tri-state area game).
Now, as to why my fellow Heels care, I have no idea. If they're right, then Duke will pay the price "when it matters." If they're wrong, they are just making themselves look foolish. So it's a dumb thing for them to try to make a point about. Nevertheless, I thought I'd clarify.
I agree with Biscuit on this one, as a Duke fan, his sentiment is the one I hear from all the Carolina fans that talk so much junk. However if it wasn't that it would be something else we would hear about.
Thanks. In defense of my brethren, the argument about Duke's lack of road games is a valid one to make in the context of a conversation about poll rankings in November, December or January. Right or wrong, UNC fans can and do argue that Duke is ranked too highly in the early season. Those arguments are part of what makes college basketball fun. But it shouldn't be a reason for people to accuse Duke, or Coach K, of being "wimps" or some such thing. This ain't college football. It will all bear out in February, March and April.
For the same reason, I've never understood why Vitale and others whine about "cupcake" scheduling. The coaches by and large are trying to prepare their teams for the more important games later in the season, not pad their records. They just have different ideas on the best way to get their teams ready for prime time. As I said, it all comes out in the end.
Most rational fans on both sides, I would think, would agree that poll position in Nov-Jan means nothing in college hoops. By and large, the NCAA tournament committee does a good job taking non-conference schedule strength into both tournament selection and seeding. If a coach schedules cupcakes, they'll have to deal with the possible consequences of the team being unprepared against higher quality foes, and the possibility of being left out or seeded lower because they're non-conference schedule strength is weak. Though it varies year to year, both Duke and UNC tend to have relatively strong strengths of schedule.