Crazies' Attendance/Criticisms Collection Thread 2009

[mike88]

I think the underlying "problem" here is not the students and their lack of early-season enthusiasm, but actually a more fundamental one- the way in which tickets are allocated for basketball. The current system works well in many ways (great seats for students, especially for "big" games; strong impetus for fundraising through Iron Dukes), but it doesn't do a good job in many others (allowing more non-student fans the chance to see Duke play; filling seats early in the year and for 9PM games).

Moreover, the "official" mechanisms for recycling tickets doesn't seem to work very well, and one of the side effects of scalping is that it is not uncommon to have another team's fans in our building for big games- it was painful to have to sit next to a Carolina fan for last year's UNC game.

I think we need to step back and completely revelauate how the opportunity and priority for tickets are determined. It may be that we just need some small tweaks, but until we do something different, I think we will see the same problems each year.

[aimo]

As I mentioned in another post, this season the season ticketholders were given an option to not buy the exhibition games. Maybe they did this b/c of poor attendance in the past. If this is the case, and people did NOT buy these tickets with the season book, then the ticket office is responsible for not selling the extra tickets. Which is why they should do like they used to and make the exhibition games free, allowing those not able to get season tickets the opportunity to see a game in Cameron.

The problem is the same. Greed. They have limited season ticketholders to pretty much those Iron Dukes who give the most money. Unfortunately, too many of these people are only interested in the big games. And they're too bothered to give the tickets to anyone else. Maybe if they weren't so hell-bent on making the most money possible, they could sell seats to people who actually come to the games (the publicly sold tickets usually go to a much livelier crowd, too.) Or do a better job of convincing the Iron Dukes to donate unwanted tickets to groups like Big Brother/Big Sister so kids that would normally never get to see a game come to Cameron.

So, Coach, which do you prefer? Money or fans?

Also, it is hard for a lot of people to get to 7pm games on time. They work, go home, have dinner, deal with family issues, FIGHT TRAFFIC, etc. Coach K always seems to forget this . . .

[nyr484]

let's call the upper level out occasionally.

I remember a game my sophomore or junior year (against Wake with Chris Paul), where it was very close in the 2nd half. Crazies started a "Stand Up" cheer and the entire 6,000 or so people in the upper level stood up and started making noise. I've never heard Cameron louder. The team was visibly energized, and we ended up winning. That needs to happen more often.

[bigj4194]

hey guys i wanted to add my $0.02. Yes I am embarrased about the attendance, especially since i am HLM. Yes I think the attendance needs to be better. Yes I think that the attendance last night as it was pathetic. That said...I want to make a couple of arguments (i am not defending those who didn't come to the game).
1) It was the night after the election. I know a lot of people who did not attend the game because they had projects due and they chose to watch the election rather than go to the game.
2) This is midterm season
3) It was an exhibition game
4) Many people didn't even know there was a game. While did everything in my power to try to advertise for the game, many people didnt know about it. I wrote a letter to the editor for the Chronicle, and they didn't publish it. The chronicle didn't even mention that there was a game...instead they focused entirely on the election

While I have said all of this I do believe that it is unacceptable that WE the student body didn't show up. I do not want to lose the student section seats. I will be doing everything in my power to increase the attendance for the undergrad students. I do not believe that we should have to advertise basketball, but if thats what it takes to get attendance back to where it needs to be.

Lastly. I do not believe that we will be having this discussion about poor basketball attendance come ACC season. IMO let's table this discussion until after at least a couple of pre-season games. If the student attendance is still poor in a month we can continue this conversation, but criticizing everyone here is unproductive until we actually see what is going on during the regular season.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

One thing that has not really been said here is that getting the best seats in the house for free is a privilege for undergrads, not a right. There is probably no other top program in the country that allows such a large percentage of its undergrads to sit courtside for free.

We shouldn't have to, but let's look at it another way. Think of early game attendance as the price of admission. If students want to have the opportunity to go to big games, they should "earn" the right to keep the large student section intact by showing their full support from day one - not day 10 or 20. If students don't earn it, you can bet the section will get smaller... you know, use it or lose it. That would be a shame for everyone b/c the Crazies are Cameron!

I hope a sense of duty beats out any sense of entitlement that may exist. I was a Crazy from 90-94. It got really hard to get into games. Long lines all the time. But you know what, we dropped our books and got our butts out there b/c we loved it. It was a key part of the Duke experience. Relish it and make us all proud.

[Edouble]

I hope a sense of duty beats out any sense of entitlement that may exist. I was a Crazy from 90-94. It got really hard to get into games. Long lines all the time. But you know what, we dropped our books and got our butts out there b/c we loved it. It was a key part of the Duke experience. Relish it and make us all proud.

I brought my books with me when I sat in line. Laptops weren't as common back then either. If I could be researching and writing papers while in line, I would have had a much easier time.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Were you a Crazie, Ozzie? If you were, you probably understand this.

I never missed a home game in four years as an undergrad. I sat behind the visitor's bench with my air horn in the mid 70's. You may have seen Devildeac's reference to me as XXXXX. See picture below. This is not the first air horn - that was absconded with by some fellow student early sophomore year. This one I closely guarded for three more seasons. I bought many cans of freon at Durham Sporting Goods over the years - you can see the price tag on the can - it was only $2.40 back then. I have no idea what freon costs now. And yes, it still works (I just tested it)!

I met Lefty Driesell at an Iron Duke football tailgate 2 years ago and introduced myself as the student with the air horn. He laughed and remembered me, holding his hands over his ears as he shook his head.

We (Phi Psi's) mercilessly picked on one player during games, to the point of bringing a Clemson freshman star guard to tears when he was finally pulled out of the game late in the second half. There are other instances I can site but won't. Yeah, I will - we named Mike O'Koren permanent captain of the ACC All Ugly team, permanent Clearasil poster boy (we were not the originators of that title).

In my day, Duke basketball pretty much sucked - last in the ACC year after year, beating only Maryland my freshman year (the Gary Melchionni game) and then again my senior year (the Terry Chili foul shot game) as the only big conference wins.

We only had to get to Cameron (newly named just before my freshman year) about 3 hours before the game to secure our primo seats, even for the carolina game. I never had to tent, although it certainly would have been cool to do it for a day or two...

[jlear]

I have been upstairs for every game except one (gave ticket to a family member) for the last 4 season. My take on last night was that the lower bowl had about the same numbers as most weekday exhibition games and the upstairs was the worst attended mens game I have been to, kinda like a womens game. It seems the core group of crazies was there and had a great new cheer after Olek's dunk, I thought the cheer was a little over the line and I loved it even if some folks around me did not get it.

I think we should save the crying about attendence for a week or two and figure out which game would make for a good DBR hoops tailgate...I am thinking of frying turkey's for it.

[lifelongdevil]

some of the things I have seen written by fellow students above are rally disheartening. Im a freshman this year, but grew up in North Carolina with season tickets since around 8 years of age. In the last four years(although less notably so JJ and Shelden's senior year) I've seen a significant drop in both attendance and intensity. Most ACC games last year were absolutely dull. You should never be able to hear the ball bouncing against the court, which i did a number of times, from my row J seat last year. I remember the days hen the crazies found a way to unfurl a make shift banner with Go to Hell Carolina spray painted on it. Of making Chris Paul cry on the sidelines. Of yelling a**hole at Kenny Inge.

The majority of people I know simply chose not to go to the game, with many others telling me they didn't even know we were playing. While it wasn't a high caliber opponent, going to Cameron with your friends is fun, not some kind of obligation. Its two hours, ending at nine; there is no way you have that much work. I was sorely disappointed by the turnout last night and hope next monday brings a new enthusiasm.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Back in the good old days when Vic Bubas was the coach and we undergraduates paid a hefty student activities fee which included admission to football and basketball games, then AD Eddie Cameron came up with a way to fill the students sections. At the time we didn't like it and some even resented it in view of the activity fee. He created a policy which resulted in a full arena downstairs for every game. A short time before the game was to start, if there were seats available, anyone could be admitted for $1 per person. Maybe, at least for the exhibition games, something similar could be done.... with a suitable price for admission.

[MulletMan]

All im trying to say is that, what did you get Tuesday night that you couldnt have gotten Wednesday morning? I understand this is a historical election...but its not like it happened for 30 seconds then is gone and will never be back. Basically my point is this: someone offers me Duke-LRC exhibition tickets versus sitting around watching tv about the election we've been hearing about for the past 9 months with information that is one click away on the internet, then yeah im gonna take the Duke tix. I was as eager as you were to find out who was going to win...but you know as well as I do, there is no lack of coverage or information on the election. And to be honest, NC was not called Tuesday night and actually sitll isnt...so you must be tired you've been up for 3 days now.

What did I get out of it? Oh, I don't know, the chance to experience history with people I care about and respect as opposed to reading about it the next day.

And see here's the thing... you said in your first post that the only things that you'd miss a Duke game for were your wedding and the birth of your children. I think that's kind of ridiculous. I mean kudos for being able to put those things in front of a Duke basketball game, but I think there are many other things that might be more worthwhile than going to a Duke game. Yes, if it was the one chance that you had in your entire life to see a game in Cameron then yes, I get it. But surprisingly there is a lot that the world has to offer outside of Duke Basketball.

Oh, and you need to work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say that I waited for NC to be called, I said:

... then stayed up until 100% of NC was reporting and I was freaking exhausted last night by the time the game rolled around. So yeah, in order to be invovled in history I gave up 20 minutes of Duke Basketball.

Tell me that I should have traded the two.

And that happened around 2:30AM on Wednesday. But thanks for your concern.

*****************************

Now to the issue at hand:

1. It is truly waaaaay too early to be talking about this.
2. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Student Section belongs to the students. It is what they make it, and it is different each year. DO I think that some of our stunts were the funniest and most clever ever? Yep. Sure do. Do I think that these Crazies are as good as my Crazies? WHO CARES! They're the Crazies... you don't like it? ... enroll your I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. as an undergrad or grad student and get in line every damn game! Now that seems stupid doesn't it? Kind of like complaining about attendance for a weeknight exhibition against a D-II school.
3. Everyone is entitled to prioritize Duke Basketball wherever they like in their lives, but that doesn't mean that everyone needs to rank it in the same spot on their personal list.

[MulletMan]

I remember the days hen the crazies found a way to unfurl a make shift banner with Go to Hell Carolina spray painted on it. Of making Chris Paul cry on the sidelines. Of yelling a**hole at Kenny Inge.

Well try to make some of those things happen now and see how quickly you are reprimanded or told not to do them again by people associated with the program.

[bigj4194]

Now to the issue at hand:

1. It is truly waaaaay too early to be talking about this.
2. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Student Section belongs to the students. It is what they make it, and it is different each year. DO I think that some of our stunts were the funniest and most clever ever? Yep. Sure do. Do I think that these Crazies are as good as my Crazies? WHO CARES! They're the Crazies... you don't like it? ... enroll your I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. as an undergrad or grad student and get in line every damn game! Now that seems stupid doesn't it? Kind of like complaining about attendance for a weeknight exhibition against a D-II school.
3. Everyone is entitled to prioritize Duke Basketball wherever they like in their lives, but that doesn't mean that everyone needs to rank it in the same spot on their personal list.

AMEN Mulletman...i completely agree and tried to say this in my post earlier...but was not as clear and concise as you were.

[zingit]

Count me in 100% with MulletMan and DukeCO2009 (maybe because I am Duke class of 2009 too). Yes, I was there last night and I attend almost every game. But can we please stop using these moralistic tones when discussing this? The whole attitude of some of the people (not everyone)complaining on this board is, "You should be ashamed of yourself--you didn't attend a basketball game!" Doesn't that strike anyone as a little . . . odd? And obnoxious? I love Duke basketball, but you are not a bad person if you don't go to a particular game, especially a pre-season game.

And yes, I get that in general, tough academics are a constant, but is it that hard to believe that last night could have been an anomaly, a particularly bad night for academics? I mean, there's always tough academics, but there isn't always a major test/assignment due the next day. I have two friends who both really wanted to go, but one had an assignment due at midnight (a little harder to just "do it later") and the other had a huge test the next day. Tsk-tsk at them all you want, but just because they didn't show up last night doesn't mean that they're bad fans, or that they won't show up to later games. Heck, given how much work I have to do, I'm half-regretting going to the game--I literally had to stay up all night last night. Not complaining, just stating a fact. And I'm not someone who parties a lot or watches "The Hills," as someone suggested. (Charming accusation there.) Just have some perspective, guys.

The attitude now is that we are entitled to show up and cheer our team on when we want, but that we expect them to always perform at an elite level.

I think that argument goes both ways. Coach K complains about the people who expect us to attend a Final Four every year. He's right; we're not entitled to anything except to see our team compete and try their best. But you can turn that back and say Coach K's not entitled to have a crowd of 9,314 every night either. Neither of us is entitled to anything. I love Coach K 99% of the time, but I really get annoyed when Coach K harps on this, because I feel like he doesn't have the right to complain about spoiled fans when he's just acting like a spoiled coach.

Now, I do think he has a point that if the students don't fill up the section then let's go ahead and sell some of those seats before tipoff or something. But let's remember, we tried a new basketball admission policy last year to deal with exactly this problem, and then it turned out there was no problem once the season got underway (let's remember, the season has NOT started yet) and fans filled the seats easily. So this is way too early to be complaining about this.

[Edouble]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Student Section belongs to the students.

I hope that it stays that way.

[willywoody]

Season starts at the Blue-White game and games should be well attended, maybe not sold out attendance for an exhibition game but not 2/3 full, either.

Unfortunately, this thread went in an unintentional direction which I thought I had addressed after the HLM (took me a while to figure that one out) responded. My wi fi interupted and erased my post in transit, though.

I was really trying to get students AND season ticket holders excited for these early season games. They are entertaining and like I posted earlier, they can provide some ever lasting memories.

I wish everyone would stop being so defensive and accusatory and figure out how to get people in the stands for these games. The team deserves it, even if it is an exhibition game.

[Ders24]

Season starts at the Blue-White game and games should be well attended, maybe not sold out attendance for an exhibition game but not 2/3 full, either.

Unfortunately, this thread went in an unintentional direction which I thought I had addressed after the HLM (took me a while to figure that one out) responded. My wi fi interupted and erased my post in transit, though.

I was really trying to get students AND season ticket holders excited for these early season games. They are entertaining and like I posted earlier, they can provide some ever lasting memories.

I wish everyone would stop being so defensive and accusatory and figure out how to get people in the stands for these games. The team deserves it, even if it is an exhibition game.

While I agree that the team does deserve the support, and I have been at every game so far as an undergrad, I don't think that most people would agree that the season starts at Blue/White. Compared to what a lot of other schools do, Blue/White is not an exciting way to start the season. Part of the problem, in my opinion, is that not enough is done to get students hyped about the season early on.

[Carlos]

I think that argument goes both ways. Coach K complains about the people who expect us to attend a Final Four every year. He's right; we're not entitled to anything except to see our team compete and try their best. But you can turn that back and say Coach K's not entitled to have a crowd of 9,314 every night either. Neither of us is entitled to anything. I love Coach K 99% of the time, but I really get annoyed when Coach K harps on this, because I feel like he doesn't have the right to complain about spoiled fans when he's just acting like a spoiled coach.

Now, I do think he has a point that if the students don't fill up the section then let's go ahead and sell some of those seats before tipoff or something. But let's remember, we tried a new basketball admission policy last year to deal with exactly this problem, and then it turned out there was no problem once the season got underway (let's remember, the season has NOT started yet) and fans filled the seats easily. So this is way too early to be complaining about this.

It's a nice analogy but perhaps it would be more appropriate to say that it's unrealistic to expect Duke to be the best basketball team in the country every year, but it's not unrealistic to expect them to show up and play the games. Likewise, it's unrealistic to expect the Cameron Crazies to be electric every single night, but it's not unrealistic to expect them to at least show up for the game.

Now maybe you stayed up late the night before to study for a test, write a paper, or participate in the election. That's your choice and I don't have a problem with any of that. But at the same time, it smacks of an appalling sense of entitlement to adopt the attitude that "don't worry, we'll show up when the games are more meaningful." Because the student section doesn't really belong to the students - it belongs to the university. And the university makes the decision to give that to the students (at a level that's superior to almost any other school in Div I). In return it shouldn't be too much to expect people to show up and support the team even for the dog games like exhibitions.

Here's a thought - establish the size of the student section for the whole season based on the number of students who show up for those exhibition games.

[Kedsy]

Blue/White is not an exciting way to start the season. Part of the problem, in my opinion, is that not enough is done to get students hyped about the season early on.

If you're a Duke fan, what start-of-season event could be more exciting than Blue/White?

[Acymetric]

If you're a Duke fan, what start-of-season event could be more exciting than Blue/White?

I'm pretty sure they're referring to what other schools do, like midnight madness and things like that. They make it a bit more of a spectacle. We don't have anything like that. Should we try to do something like that? I don't know, or really care. Other people probably have strong opinions one way or another.