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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Charleston, SC

    Attendance at Games

    DBR is right about this, get out and support the team. As a former season ticket holder I never had any problem finding someone to take my tickets even for an exhibition game. If you can't find someone turn them back in to the Iron Dukes or give them to the DBR to auction. If you know soon enough in the year, you can always donate them to another charity but then you run more of a risk of putting an opponent's fan in those seats. I'm sure the church youth basketball team or the middle school players would love to attend a game. How about the local boys club or Big Brothers?

    I always found the exhibition games and games against the smaller teams to be very exciting. Sure the score might not be close but its the time when Coach K experiments more with the line-ups and the walk ons, and those further down the rotation, get more time. Those players hustle as hard if not harder in these games and when they get a bucket or a steal its a big deal, as they might not have a chance to do that later in the season. Sometimes these smaller teams will have a magical game, have their star player go off, or play some killer defense that takes a while for Duke to figure out. That can be just as interesting and exciting as a "big" game.

    As a former student, I would think it would be great to be able to walk up and have a decent seat, not having to camp out or wait hours in line as happens later in the year. I would think it would be exciting to see that walk on from your freshman dorm score. They've already greatly reduced the undergraduate student section since "back in the day." I have no doubt they will do it again if the seats stay empty.

  2. #2
    As someone who has no affiliation to Duke other than being an avid fan and who only has the ability to make the minimum Iron Duke donation, I find it frustrating that those who have season tickets don't make them available on the many avenues available.

    I've been a season football ticket holder for 4 years (this year I have 8 GA seats) and drive over 3 1/2 hours to Durham on game days. I've shared and had fellow fans share GA tickets when I wanted to bring a church group etc. I know there's a huge difference in football and basketball, but the spirit should be the same.

    I know many people who would give anything in the world for an opportunity to see Duke play at home, especially when the students are there. I finally was able to get tickets to the Duquesne game this year. I'll miss the kids, but at least get to see my team play at Cameron for the first time in about 12 years.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by brianl View Post
    I know many people who would give anything in the world for an opportunity to see Duke play at home, especially when the students are there.
    Tell them to drive to Durham and stand outside of Cameron. They will find tickets. Unless it's a game against the big 4 or a top 10 matchup, no problem.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Houston

    From a student's perspective...

    I think I speak for most students when I say that I'm a bit peeved by the yearly early season whining about attendence. I understand your concern, and to a level I empathize with you--I remember coming to games as a kid and feeling like I had been cheated when the student section wasn't 100% full. I thought that the students should show up to entertain me, and I feel like most alums--or whoever else sits up top--feel the same way. Bottom line, though, is that this discussion happens every November, and the "problem" is inevitably solved, at the latest, by the time conference play gets going. The reason fewer students show up to the early games--exhibitions, preseason games, crappy OOC games--is because it's just not great baskebtall.

    That's not to say that we want close games, because we don't; it should be obvious, though, that the incentive to trek to West from East or Central, for instance, is much less when the only suspense surrounding the game is whether or not we'll hit 100. We also, believe it or not, have academic obligations. Would I stay up an extra two or three hours studying so I could see us play State, Wake, or even someone like Princeton? Sure--but a game against a DII school that counts for nothing? Not so much. That doesn't mean we don't support the team, it doesn't mean we're getting complacent, and it doesn't mean we don't relish the opportunity to get free tickets to the best arena on the planet. All it means is that being a Duke student forces you to prioritize.

    I hate to be so blunt, alums/boosters/etc., but we attend games neither for your amusement nor with intent of enhancing your overall Cameron experience. While a select few might show up just to get on TV, the overwhelming majority of us come because we want to watch a basketball game. Some basketball games have more entertainment potential than others, and that's why the stands aren't quite as full during the first few weeks of the season as they are come winter. If you're disappointed by the student turnout, why not try making some noise yourselves to pick up the slack? It's usually like a ghost town up there. I apologize if I seem curt--I'm just trying to give it to you straight. Moral of the story? Take a deep breath and simmer down a bit--I guarantee you that we'll have the place rockin' in due time.

    Go Duke

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeCO2009 View Post
    I think I speak for most students when I say that I'm a bit peeved by the yearly early season whining about attendence. I understand your concern, and to a level I empathize with you--I remember coming to games as a kid and feeling like I had been cheated when the student section wasn't 100% full. I thought that the students should show up to entertain me, and I feel like most alums--or whoever else sits up top--feel the same way. Bottom line, though, is that this discussion happens every November, and the "problem" is inevitably solved, at the latest, by the time conference play gets going. The reason fewer students show up to the early games--exhibitions, preseason games, crappy OOC games--is because it's just not great baskebtall.

    That's not to say that we want close games, because we don't; it should be obvious, though, that the incentive to trek to West from East or Central, for instance, is much less when the only suspense surrounding the game is whether or not we'll hit 100. We also, believe it or not, have academic obligations. Would I stay up an extra two or three hours studying so I could see us play State, Wake, or even someone like Princeton? Sure--but a game against a DII school that counts for nothing? Not so much. That doesn't mean we don't support the team, it doesn't mean we're getting complacent, and it doesn't mean we don't relish the opportunity to get free tickets to the best arena on the planet. All it means is that being a Duke student forces you to prioritize.

    I hate to be so blunt, alums/boosters/etc., but we attend games neither for your amusement nor with intent of enhancing your overall Cameron experience. While a select few might show up just to get on TV, the overwhelming majority of us come because we want to watch a basketball game. Some basketball games have more entertainment potential than others, and that's why the stands aren't quite as full during the first few weeks of the season as they are come winter. If you're disappointed by the student turnout, why not try making some noise yourselves to pick up the slack? It's usually like a ghost town up there. I apologize if I seem curt--I'm just trying to give it to you straight. Moral of the story? Take a deep breath and simmer down a bit--I guarantee you that we'll have the place rockin' in due time.

    Go Duke
    I think you may be forgetting that the definition of an "alum" is someone who used to attend the school. And most of us are not so old that we don't remember what it was like to be a student. When I was at Duke we had academic obligations too, but we ate up every opportunity to see the team play -- exhibitions, cupcake-non-conference games, intrasquad scrimmages, even the all-too-rare open practice. Sure, we wanted to see great basketball, but the priority was seeing our team in action.

    Also, I doubt very many people care about this issue because they want you to entertain or amuse them. The fact is that a full, active, sarcastic, and airplane-engine-loud Duke crowd is a key component for a successful Duke team. If you become apathetic or absent, Duke basketball loses an important weapon and becomes less than what it was.

    Finally, in almost every endeavor, if someone tries to coast and then turn it on when it's important, they're never as good as they would be if they'd given maximum effort the entire time. This is something I've learned from gaining experience and perspective over time. Lots of college arenas "rock" but there's no place like Cameron. All we want is for it to stay that way.
    Last edited by Kedsy; 11-06-2008 at 01:44 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Goldsboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeCO2009 View Post
    I think I speak for most students when I say that I'm a bit peeved by the yearly early season whining about attendence. I understand your concern, and to a level I empathize with you--I remember coming to games as a kid and feeling like I had been cheated when the student section wasn't 100% full. I thought that the students should show up to entertain me, and I feel like most alums--or whoever else sits up top--feel the same way. Bottom line, though, is that this discussion happens every November, and the "problem" is inevitably solved, at the latest, by the time conference play gets going. The reason fewer students show up to the early games--exhibitions, preseason games, crappy OOC games--is because it's just not great baskebtall.

    That's not to say that we want close games, because we don't; it should be obvious, though, that the incentive to trek to West from East or Central, for instance, is much less when the only suspense surrounding the game is whether or not we'll hit 100. We also, believe it or not, have academic obligations. Would I stay up an extra two or three hours studying so I could see us play State, Wake, or even someone like Princeton? Sure--but a game against a DII school that counts for nothing? Not so much. That doesn't mean we don't support the team, it doesn't mean we're getting complacent, and it doesn't mean we don't relish the opportunity to get free tickets to the best arena on the planet. All it means is that being a Duke student forces you to prioritize.

    I hate to be so blunt, alums/boosters/etc., but we attend games neither for your amusement nor with intent of enhancing your overall Cameron experience. While a select few might show up just to get on TV, the overwhelming majority of us come because we want to watch a basketball game. Some basketball games have more entertainment potential than others, and that's why the stands aren't quite as full during the first few weeks of the season as they are come winter. If you're disappointed by the student turnout, why not try making some noise yourselves to pick up the slack? It's usually like a ghost town up there. I apologize if I seem curt--I'm just trying to give it to you straight. Moral of the story? Take a deep breath and simmer down a bit--I guarantee you that we'll have the place rockin' in due time.

    Go Duke
    Got to agree with him here, I was at the game last night and sat up at the top and it is frustrating to look around and I was the only standing, clapping, cheering, etc. But it is even more discouraging when those sitting around you act annoyed or act as though you are blocking their view bc you are standing. They also act like my cheering is ruining their experience. We are constantly calling out the students, let's call the upper level out occasionally.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    If that's the prevailing student attitude DukeCO2009, I feel sorry for the team.

    I don't care if the students are there or not, I just want someone in there making noise and supporting the team. There are a lot of reasons to see the early games, as I originally posted, and the lack of a line means the overall time commitment is much less.

    If I hadn't gone to see Duke vs. the (fake) Russian squad in an exhibition I never would've seen Quinn make that incredible drive from the top of the key for that dunk over the 7 footers they had. (I added "fake Russian team" to denote it wasn't even the real Olympic squad but more of a mix of lesser players.) That's one of the greatest memories I have from Cameron and it was in an exhibition game.

    I'm sure others here can give some more great memories from these "meaningless" games.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CMS2478 View Post
    But it is even more discouraging when those sitting around you act annoyed or act as though you are blocking their view bc you are standing.
    As though? How can you not block the view of someone when you stand in front of them?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Goldsboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleboy View Post
    As though? How can you not block the view of someone when you stand in front of them?
    My point is that I am there to stand and cheer Duke basketball. If I am blocking you stand up and cheer a little yourself and you can see just fine. If it is an elder person who is unable to stand I would be more considerate, but the complaint I got was from a guy younger than I who was checking his Facebook account on his I-phone the entire game.

  10. #10

    My experience

    I went to the first exhibition during Parents' Weekend, and the student section was full, with both students and parents in attendance. I was delighted to find out that I could jump up and down the entire game when Duke was on defense, which I think surprised my daughter.

    I saw a lot of empty seats, but those were up by the rafters. Does Duke have some sort of system that allows season ticket holders to return tickets if they don't intend to use them? They could be resold, with proceeds going to sports, the Emily K Center, scholarships, etc.

    While these early games may not be competitive, it gives your the chance to see the team and the new players, so it's a great opportunity. For example, I was impressed with Miles Plumlee, even against smaller competition, so that was a pleasant surprise.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeCO2009 View Post
    I think I speak for most students when I say that I'm a bit peeved by the yearly early season whining about attendence. I understand your concern, and to a level I empathize with you--I remember coming to games as a kid and feeling like I had been cheated when the student section wasn't 100% full. I thought that the students should show up to entertain me, and I feel like most alums--or whoever else sits up top--feel the same way. Bottom line, though, is that this discussion happens every November, and the "problem" is inevitably solved, at the latest, by the time conference play gets going. The reason fewer students show up to the early games--exhibitions, preseason games, crappy OOC games--is because it's just not great baskebtall.

    That's not to say that we want close games, because we don't; it should be obvious, though, that the incentive to trek to West from East or Central, for instance, is much less when the only suspense surrounding the game is whether or not we'll hit 100. We also, believe it or not, have academic obligations. Would I stay up an extra two or three hours studying so I could see us play State, Wake, or even someone like Princeton? Sure--but a game against a DII school that counts for nothing? Not so much. That doesn't mean we don't support the team, it doesn't mean we're getting complacent, and it doesn't mean we don't relish the opportunity to get free tickets to the best arena on the planet. All it means is that being a Duke student forces you to prioritize.

    I hate to be so blunt, alums/boosters/etc., but we attend games neither for your amusement nor with intent of enhancing your overall Cameron experience. While a select few might show up just to get on TV, the overwhelming majority of us come because we want to watch a basketball game. Some basketball games have more entertainment potential than others, and that's why the stands aren't quite as full during the first few weeks of the season as they are come winter. If you're disappointed by the student turnout, why not try making some noise yourselves to pick up the slack? It's usually like a ghost town up there. I apologize if I seem curt--I'm just trying to give it to you straight. Moral of the story? Take a deep breath and simmer down a bit--I guarantee you that we'll have the place rockin' in due time.

    Go Duke
    It's a two hour game. Skip watching "The Hills", or go out partying at 9 instead of 7 on Saturday.

    When I was at Duke, students were generally basketball crazy. Watching the development of the team from November to April (hopefully) is part of the experience and part of the fun. It is a rare privledge to be part of the 6th man, and maybe it's not for you. I just wish that the excitement and gratitude for the opportunity to watch Duke basketball for free in the best seats in the house was still a part of the Duke culture. "Work hard, play hard" was the culture when I was there, and the ball games were definitely part of the "play". There were many basketball "nuts" when I was there. The school is clearly different now, and while I can't rightfully tell people how to spend their four years at Duke, I am definitely saddened that a great part of the Duke experience, as I knew it, seems to be waning. The thing that separates Duke from Colombia, Princeton, Emory, UVA, etc... is that we have a perrenial Top 5 basketball program, and that's special.

    It's not up to the upper bowl to make noise. The "Cameron Crazies" are the 6th man, and they sit in the lower bowl. The students get the good seats, and they get the regonition of and the responsibility for being the best student section in the country.

    If you're only going to go for a game against a Big 4 or top 10 team, it seems like a lop-sided commitment to the team. Just as you would not have alums and boosters using you for entertainment value, it seems like that's how you are treating the team when you choose to participate when it's exciting and convenient to you.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by willywoody View Post
    I'm sure others here can give some more great memories from these "meaningless" games.
    A great point. The "Red Light Special" and "You shot the Sheriff" chants, the latter which caused the player to laught too hard to attempt a decent free throw, against the "fake Australian team" with K-Mart jerseys, are still the examples I pull out when people ask me to tell them stories about the Duke student section.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Houston
    Quote Originally Posted by willywoody View Post
    If that's the prevailing student attitude DukeCO2009, I feel sorry for the team.

    I don't care if the students are there or not, I just want someone in there making noise and supporting the team. There are a lot of reasons to see the early games, as I originally posted, and the lack of a line means the overall time commitment is much less.

    If I hadn't gone to see Duke vs. the (fake) Russian squad in an exhibition I never would've seen Quinn make that incredible drive from the top of the key for that dunk over the 7 footers they had. (I added "fake Russian team" to denote it wasn't even the real Olympic squad but more of a mix of lesser players.) That's one of the greatest memories I have from Cameron and it was in an exhibition game.

    I'm sure others here can give some more great memories from these "meaningless" games.
    Reread my post: I'm not at all saying that there's no reason to come to early season games. Hell, I've seen plenty of entertaining games that meant jack squat in the overall scheme of the season. One of my favorite Duke memories was seeing us hold Army to 12 (mayeb it was 14) first half points about 10 years ago sometime in late November--I'll never forget that defensive performance as long as I live. All I'm trying to get across is that our lives don't revolve around basketball--we don't sit in our dorm rooms trying to think up clever ideas for signs and chants in our spare time. As I said, if you think the students aren't doing a good job, give us a helping hand up there.

  14. #14
    As a senior, I understand the attendance gripe. My sophomore year was terrible (The year after JJ&Shelden left, the 06-07 Season) with regards to attendance.

    Last year was much better, and I expect this year to be better than that.

    You all are being way too quick to judge. For starters this was the 2nd exhibition game. Second it was during a wednesday on november.

    I myself didn't go, I had a job that I had to be at Wednesday night. Yes, I could've probably gotten off, but then I wouldn't be able to get off when we actually have regular season games. I'll prioritize in this case.

    I believe the fans will support the team in Cameron during the regular season. But a 2nd exhibition game, 1 and a half weeks after the last one in the middle of a week? Uhhhh obviously attendance was going to suck.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeCO2009 View Post
    I think I speak for most students when I say that I'm a bit peeved by the yearly early season whining about attendence. I understand your concern, and to a level I empathize with you--I remember coming to games as a kid and feeling like I had been cheated when the student section wasn't 100% full. I thought that the students should show up to entertain me, and I feel like most alums--or whoever else sits up top--feel the same way. Bottom line, though, is that this discussion happens every November, and the "problem" is inevitably solved, at the latest, by the time conference play gets going. The reason fewer students show up to the early games--exhibitions, preseason games, crappy OOC games--is because it's just not great baskebtall.

    That's not to say that we want close games, because we don't; it should be obvious, though, that the incentive to trek to West from East or Central, for instance, is much less when the only suspense surrounding the game is whether or not we'll hit 100. We also, believe it or not, have academic obligations. Would I stay up an extra two or three hours studying so I could see us play State, Wake, or even someone like Princeton? Sure--but a game against a DII school that counts for nothing? Not so much. That doesn't mean we don't support the team, it doesn't mean we're getting complacent, and it doesn't mean we don't relish the opportunity to get free tickets to the best arena on the planet. All it means is that being a Duke student forces you to prioritize.

    I hate to be so blunt, alums/boosters/etc., but we attend games neither for your amusement nor with intent of enhancing your overall Cameron experience. While a select few might show up just to get on TV, the overwhelming majority of us come because we want to watch a basketball game. Some basketball games have more entertainment potential than others, and that's why the stands aren't quite as full during the first few weeks of the season as they are come winter. If you're disappointed by the student turnout, why not try making some noise yourselves to pick up the slack? It's usually like a ghost town up there. I apologize if I seem curt--I'm just trying to give it to you straight. Moral of the story? Take a deep breath and simmer down a bit--I guarantee you that we'll have the place rockin' in due time.

    Go Duke
    If the students don't want to or can't turn out for ALL games then Duke needs a policy to allow people that would love to be there the ability to get into a game. I guarantee you there are plenty of people that would be more than happy to take up those empty seats. Maybe Duke needs a standyby plan where if the student section isn't filled 5 minutes before tip-off, folks can purchase the right to come in and take those spots in the bleachers. It's a shame that one of the top sporting venues in the country can have empty seats for any game regardless if it is an ACC or exhibition contest. I'm not complaining about cheers or how loud the students get, but Cameron is way too hard to get into to allow empty seats in the bleachers or upstairs. Should never happen.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeCO2009 View Post
    All I'm trying to get across is that our lives don't revolve around basketball--we don't sit in our dorm rooms trying to think up clever ideas for signs and chants in our spare time.
    Ah, but many of ours did and many of us did. That's the disconnect.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Houston
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    It's a two hour game. Skip watching "The Hills", or go out partying at 9 instead of 7 on Saturday.

    When I was at Duke, students were generally basketball crazy. Watching the development of the team from November to April (hopefully) is part of the experience and part of the fun. It is a rare privledge to be part of the 6th man, and maybe it's not for you. I just wish that the excitement and gratitude for the opportunity to watch Duke basketball for free in the best seats in the house was still a part of the Duke culture. "Work hard, play hard" was the culture when I was there, and the ball games were definitely part of the "play". There were many basketball "nuts" when I was there. The school is clearly different now, and while I can't rightfully tell people how to spend their four years at Duke, I am definitely saddened that a great part of the Duke experience, as I knew it, seems to be waning. The thing that separates Duke from Colombia, Princeton, Emory, UVA, etc... is that we have a perrenial Top 5 basketball program, and that's special.

    It's not up to the upper bowl to make noise. The "Cameron Crazies" are the 6th man, and they sit in the lower bowl. The students get the good seats, and they get the regonition of and the responsibility for being the best student section in the country.

    If you're only going to go for a game against a Big 4 or top 10 team, it seems like a lop-sided commitment to the team. Just as you would not have alums and boosters using you for entertainment value, it seems like that's how you are treating the team when you choose to participate when it's exciting and convenient to you.
    A bit presumptuous, aren't you? I have law school to prepare for--I don't have time to watch much TV or go out on week nights. I don't only go to the good games by any stretch; in fact, I've probably only missed 6 or 7 games the entire time I've been here. The student population is no less "basketball crazy" now than it was 10, 15, or however many years ago. In fact, I'd venture to say it's the exact opposite. Take a look at how big K-Ville has gotten, and you'll realize your claim is pretty weak. Bottom line, though, is that hopefully very few of us came here just to watch basketball. To get upset when we don't show up in full force for a basketball game is silly, really. I've been coming to a few games a year since I was a kid, a good many of those being early and pre-season games, and I never recall seeing the student section filled to the brim and as loud as it is for conference play. This goes back 15+ years--to when the Crazies were allegedly in their prime. Get a grip; as I said, Cameron will be as loud as ever come winter.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by loran16 View Post
    As a senior, I understand the attendance gripe. My sophomore year was terrible (The year after JJ&Shelden left, the 06-07 Season) with regards to attendance.

    Last year was much better, and I expect this year to be better than that.

    You all are being way too quick to judge. For starters this was the 2nd exhibition game. Second it was during a wednesday on november.

    I myself didn't go, I had a job that I had to be at Wednesday night. Yes, I could've probably gotten off, but then I wouldn't be able to get off when we actually have regular season games. I'll prioritize in this case.

    I believe the fans will support the team in Cameron during the regular season. But a 2nd exhibition game, 1 and a half weeks after the last one in the middle of a week? Uhhhh obviously attendance was going to suck.
    I have to echo these statements. Last night was an exhibition against a school nobody recognized. We are students first. A lot of people have midterms this week or papers or whatever else. The election was the night before, and I dare anyone to say that an exhibition game is more important than waiting for election results. The section was relatively full and loud last night, and it'll get better and better as we start playing better teams. Don't worry, it'll be great next Monday and Tuesday.

    I see a lot of people on this board having such high expectations for the Crazies without realizing that we all have to balance classes with basketball, too. At this part of the season, classes tend to take priority. Once we hit the ACC schedule, not so much. Please, cut us a break, too. At least for men's games... for women's games, go ahead and talk about how we don't show up (because we absolutely do not)

  19. #19

    Books and ball

    Re: Kedsy's comment that "We also, believe it or not, have academic obligations. Would I stay up an extra two or three hours studying so I could see us play State, Wake, or even someone like Princeton? Sure--but a game against a DII school that counts for nothing?"

    There's no doubt that Duke's tough and requires a lot of studying, which is a problem because it takes a lot of time when you have to go over to Cameron, then stand in line way ahead of time to get a good seat, then wait around an hour before the game, etc. So it can take an entire afternoon or evening to see one game.

    But it's good to see a few people studying before the games, so there's no question that you can hit the books and still see the games. Here's one guy who was doing his math homework while the players were doing their pre-game stretching in the background.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    Re: Kedsy's comment that "We also, believe it or not, have academic obligations. Would I stay up an extra two or three hours studying so I could see us play State, Wake, or even someone like Princeton? Sure--but a game against a DII school that counts for nothing?"
    Hey, I didn't say that! I said exactly the opposite. The quote you are attributing came from DukeCO2009.
    Last edited by Kedsy; 11-06-2008 at 02:30 PM.

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