Duke Hatred Tsunami - 2008-09 collector thread

[pfrduke]

Despite crowing from The Chronicle about Duke Blue Planet lessening the hate, the Duke gets all the calls meme is getting more play in the blogosphere today (e.g., The Big Lead and Deadspin) on account of this video. Has it been altered?

Mods: Apologies if this has already been posted. Move as appropriate.

No, not altered. I noticed that play during the game last night, and thought he was lucky to get away with pre-dribble shuffling.

Of course, one non-called travel does not a "Duke gets all the calls" argument make.

edit: watching it again, it may have been slightly altered. But he does have a tendency to shuffle his feet a touch when he gets the ball. That was the only time I thought it maybe should have been called a travel, but he needs to settle that stuff down a touch.

[loran16]

FTR, i get all worked up about this. Every non-major college bball site it seems (so Rush the court or storming the floor, or deadspin/the big lead) has Duke hate brimming in its posts.

And it pisses me off since there's so little freaking reason for it. Ironically, on the 850 website that had a posting of this youtube video, a guy listed as "TarHeel Fan" mentioned that this sort of thing probably happens and gets missed all the time throughout college bball. I couldn't have said it better...but of course, the haters find something to single out about Duke and start to whine.

[Matches]

Clearly any player who travels with the ball should immediately be ejected and a technical foul should be called on Daniel Ewing.

The youtube video is making its way around my office now. I'm all up for some good-natured Duke ribbing, but this is pretty weak.

[FireOgilvie]

No, not altered. I noticed that play during the game last night, and thought he was lucky to get away with pre-dribble shuffling.

Of course, one non-called travel does not a "Duke gets all the calls" argument make.

edit: watching it again, it may have been slightly altered. But he does have a tendency to shuffle his feet a touch when he gets the ball. That was the only time I thought it maybe should have been called a travel, but he needs to settle that stuff down a touch.

Haha it wasn't "altered." You were right the first time. I noticed the same play live, and it really was that obvious. Williams does shuffle his feet on occasion, including on the finish from the full-court pass from Lance against St. John's.

Traveling no-calls always even out. Hansbrough travels literally almost every time he touches the ball. Look at his popular youtube videos... he travels on the dunk over Kenny George (the announcer even points it out) and he travels on his layup to pass Phil Ford for all-time scoring leader at UNC.

[sivartrenrag]

The thing I hate most about this stuff is that no matter how illogical it is to extrapolate one missed call to the argument that 'Duke gets all the calls' or that 'this only seems to happen for Duke' or etc. is that UNC fans (and other fans) never seem to realize how illogical it really is. You can tell them things like "this happens to every team, it's just that nobody cares enough to make Youtube videos of it because it is common mistake" but they never listen.

[alteran]

The thing I hate most about this stuff is that no matter how illogical it is to extrapolate one missed call to the argument that 'Duke gets all the calls' or that 'this only seems to happen for Duke' or etc. is that UNC fans (and other fans) never seem to realize how illogical it really is. You can tell them things like "this happens to every team, it's just that nobody cares enough to make Youtube videos of it because it is common mistake" but they never listen.

Yeah, their were A LOT of lessons a sane person could have learned from that game about officiating. Duke getting all the calls was not one of them.

[rsvman]

I noticed the play in real time, too, and couldn't believe he didn't get called for travelling.


But how is this an argument for "Duke gets all the calls" when, in fact, no call was made at all?





By the way, if you counted all the steps EWill has taken in all the games he has played at Duke and compared that total with all the steps Hansbrough has taken at UNC, it would be like the salary of a part-time McDonald's employee versus all the money in the Madoff Ponzi scheme. I'm jus' sayin.'

[yancem]

I don't know, that was a pretty terrible miss call. I'm not sure he took 12 steps like the video post claims but 7-8 wouldn't surprise me, he drifted about 2 feet during the process. I actually notice a couple of other times last night when Williams shuffled his feet (not nearly as bad) and if he doesn't figure out how to keep his feet "calm" the refs will start picking up on it.

Of course along the "these kind of calls are missed all the time" line, I thought Johnson had a pretty obvious double dribble right before he banked his 3pt shot. This was also obviously missed. Also, for all of the hand checking the refs called on Smith, they seemed to be blind to the pushing off on drives by Teague.

[Skitzle]

I don't know, that was a pretty terrible miss call. I'm not sure he took 12 steps like the video post claims but 7-8 wouldn't surprise me, he drifted about 2 feet during the process. I actually notice a couple of other times last night when Williams shuffled his feet (not nearly as bad) and if he doesn't figure out how to keep his feet "calm" the refs will start picking up on it.

Of course along the "these kind of calls are missed all the time" line, I thought Johnson had a pretty obvious double dribble right before he banked his 3pt shot. This was also obviously missed. Also, for all of the hand checking the refs called on Smith, they seemed to be blind to the pushing off on drives by Teague.

There was also a play in the first half where, IIRC, LD Williams got trapped/doubled in the post. He definitely shuffled his feet/took some steps before jumping and bouncing the ball of Thomas and out of bounds... I was pretty heated during that play, but I guess it just goes to show it goes both ways.

[DukieInKansas]

I'm glad to know I wasn't imagining things. I thought he traveled when watching the game and when it wasn't called, I thought I just didn't see his dribble.

I think the announcers during the game pointed out the double dribble that wasn't called.

Did anyone notice when Kyle set a screen in the first half and the Wake player ran into him and then just pushed him down with his forearm? No call on that one either. I think these things usually end up even over the course of the game - if you take of your colored glasses.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

and it turns out that many players have taken more than 2 steps without a whistle over the years.

Like Larry Drew

and some NBA guys

and even gritty ol' Tyler Hansbrough

Who knew?

[unwrinkled ear]

I'm not sure if you guys noticed this in Harper's, but in the March 2009 issue they have an excerpt from a leaked casting call memo from ad agency Anomaly, contracted by ESPN for a college basketball commercial. For the Duke rep, this what they wanted:
Male. He is smart, young, and white. He's handsome. He's from money. He is, in short, the kind of guy everyone can't stand, the kind of guy everyone wants to be.

For comparison, the UNC rep:
Female counterpoint to Duke. She's a Southern belle. She's sharp, pretty, and charming. Not a dingbat. Evryone wants to be around her.

(Also, just for reference as to how bad this memo was, for Tennesse they want "A slutty girl who would hang out at the Cowgirl Hall of Fame." 5 other schools were in the published excerpt.)

Now, obviously this is all disgusting. But it concretizes the way the media shapes the view of Duke basketball, and other programs around the country; the ad agency simply condensed and amplified the stereotypes. But a recent conversation I had at a superbowl party also shows how successful these misleading characterizations are, and how firmly rooted in the media, not reality, these characterizations are.

I ran into the typical "I hate duke" guy. I asked him if he had any reasons or if he had simply been brainwashed by the media. These were his reasons: Duke doesn't produce pros (when i asked if he knew that duke had more pros in the NBA right now than any other team, he responded with "they only have white guys" etc.) Clearly unenlightened about reality, but completely reflective of the portrait the media draws (despite the incredibly diverse look of the crowd/ students at cameron during games.)

Amazing just how successfully integrated into our sports culture the mischaracterizations about Duke bball have become.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I looked this up, and the campaign has been yanked, due to obviously poor taste. Here is a follow up to it.
http://deadspin.com/5087516/ and
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2008-...terstitialskip

[hurleyfor3]

Male. He is smart, young, and white. He's handsome. He's from money. He is, in short, the kind of guy everyone can't stand, the kind of guy everyone wants to be.

I fail to take umbrage at this stereotype.

[BlueintheFace]

I fail to take umbrage at this stereotype.

Why argue with the truth

[SilkyJ]

I ran into the typical "I hate duke" guy. I asked him if he had any reasons or if he had simply been brainwashed by the media. These were his reasons: Duke doesn't produce pros (when i asked if he knew that duke had more pros in the NBA right now than any other team, he responded with "they only have white guys" etc.)

why does Duke not producing pros make you "hate" them? Its become really difficult for me to understand all this hatred. It used to be the "arrogant/smart" thing, now there is just no reasonable rationale.

Incidentally, EarlJam's observation about ESPN not replaying questionable calls where Duke got the short end of the stick has been in full effect as of late. The goaltend @ Clemson jumps to mind. There were a couple last night where we discussing how they wouldn't show a replay, though I can't remember which ones specifically off-hand. I'll rewatch that game this weekend and see if I can't spot them. What a game!

[Mal]

Silky - I think the argument, such as it is, in the Dukehater mind, goes: "Duke doesn't produce good professional players, ergo Duke's players simply aren't that good, ergo Duke must get all the calls to win so many games and remain on TV constantly to be incessantly overhyped by Dukie Vitale, which makes me hate them. And it's all because their incredibly foul-mouthed coach swears at the refs and they cower before him because they, too, are brainwashed to love Duke and Coach K by the ESPN publicity machine. And possibly even paid better or offered higher exposure games if they swallow the whistle when Elliott Williams travels on the most important play ever." Or something like that. It's all interconnected, see?

[devildeac]

why does Duke not producing pros make you "hate" them? Its become really difficult for me to understand all this hatred. It used to be the "arrogant/smart" thing, now there is just no reasonable rationale.

Incidentally, EarlJam's observation about ESPN not replaying questionable calls where Duke got the short end of the stick has been in full effect as of late. The goaltend @ Clemson jumps to mind. There were a couple last night where we discussing how they wouldn't show a replay, though I can't remember which ones specifically off-hand. I'll rewatch that game this weekend and see if I can't spot them. What a game!

Who's EarlJam?

Seriously. Did the replay of the bogus goaltend against us get replayed last PM? You know, the one where the ball was below the rim and had zero chance of going in...

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Do we not have PR people? Does our AD (heck, our President) not have any connections? Does not having a J-School hurt us this much? Tonight:

-Kyle Singler was knocked to the floor by a blatantly intentional elbow. No foul.

-Gerald Henderson was whistled for a phantom T after absorbing 2-3 clear fouls on a drive

-Jon Scheyer was mauled repeatedly while driving to the basket. No call.

-Tyler Hansbrough broke the all-time record for most FT's given to a player.

But what led ESPN's coverage? Jon Scheyer sliding his feet while he's being held, bumped, clawed and shoved by two VTech players with announcers carping about "missed calls" that "gave" Duke the win (never mind that we were up 3 at the time).

I hate making officiating an issue and even though I spent the entire game screaming about the thug-fest VTech sent out tonight, I'm deeply uninterested in talking about what I thought was a horrendously officiated game.

Unfortunately, now this is the story. The media, the fans, and the coaches have another "data point" and we're another step closer to the 2006 fiasco where officials were suspended if Duke got a close call. We're another step closer to 2002 and 2004 where the "Duke gets all the calls" meme cost us 2 legit shots at a title. We're back to spending every game defending how we are officiated even (especially) when we've had the short end of the stick.

Duke needs to do something about our media coverage or there will simply be a ceiling on how well we can do before Swofford goes back to stacking the deck and ESPN goes back to airing "special reports" on every close call that goes our way. This is unfair to our players. It's unfair to the staff. And it's very, very bad for college basketball. Something needs to be done.

[_Gary]

Do we not have PR people? Does our AD (heck, our President) not have any connections? Does not having a J-School hurt us this much? Tonight:

-Kyle Singler was knocked to the floor by a blatantly intentional elbow. No foul.

-Gerald Henderson was whistled for a phantom T after absorbing 2-3 clear fouls on a drive

-Jon Scheyer was mauled repeatedly while driving to the basket. No call.

-Tyler Hansbrough broke the all-time record for most FT's given to a player.

But what led ESPN's coverage? Jon Scheyer sliding his feet while he's being held, bumped, clawed and shoved by two VTech players with announcers carping about "missed calls" that "gave" Duke the win (never mind that we were up 3 at the time).

I hate making officiating an issue and even though I spent the entire game screaming about the thug-fest VTech sent out tonight, I'm deeply uninterested in talking about what I thought was a horrendously officiated game.

Unfortunately, now this is the story. The media, the fans, and the coaches have another "data point" and we're another step closer to the 2006 fiasco where officials were suspended if Duke got a close call. We're another step closer to 2002 and 2004 where the "Duke gets all the calls" meme cost us 2 legit shots at a title. We're back to spending every game defending how we are officiated even (especially) when we've had the short end of the stick.

Duke needs to do something about our media coverage or there will simply be a ceiling on how well we can do before Swofford goes back to stacking the deck and ESPN goes back to airing "special reports" on every close call that goes our way. This is unfair to our players. It's unfair to the staff. And it's very, very bad for college basketball. Something needs to be done.

AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN!!! It's the same old song and dance. I really thought we had gotten past this crap since we've flamed out several years in a row in the NCAA's. But no. Guess not. I swear I don't think this is ever going to end. I still say ESPN is generally anti-Duke in the booth, and even when we have guys in positions to take a stand for us it doesn't happen. For goodness sake, can't someone stand up and make this a point of emphasis in one of their takes or analysis (Jay, Coach Knight, someone)?!!! Please!!! It's so one-sided I just can't stand it anymore.

Real simple question. Why can't Jay or Coach Knight or someone take footage from the VT game and show a national audience on SC all the spots were Duke did NOT get the call and then ask the question: "Why is the one non-call on Scheyer the only one my colleagues here at ESPN decided to focus on? Seems very one-sided to me."

Something like that would certainly bring in ratings and hopefully shake up things a bit. Anything is better than silence. That has not worked! We've tried it for years now and it's doing us no good. We need an advocate to speak out nationally and pull the mask off this anti-Duke bias once and for all.