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  1. #1861
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY

    I wipe my hands of you John Wall, you and your stupid thread. I'll be back when you make a decision.
    I assume this was tongue in cheek. Surely Wall isn't posting here regularly.

    There are so many possibilities for his delay that our frustration says more about us than about him.

    As for our goals for the future: It would be nice to be the overwhelming #1 team in the country (though even I got a little bored watching Brand and Co destroy solid teams throughout the regular season), but how about being top 10 every year with guys who are enthusiastic about being at Duke. If one or two of our McD's A-A's ends up being a POY candidate in a particular year, them we increase our shot at being in the final four, which is a nice bonus, but even that is no guarantee (see JJ and Shelden as an example).

    As for whether our guys are athletic and tough: I have seen very few of our players who weren't athletic and none whom I'd label soft.

    As for K's "magic": the list of players over the past 25 years who have gone elsewhere after putting us in the final 2 or 3 would make one heck of a team. We get a hugely disproportionate percentage of upper-middle-class high school All Americans (which is likely a small number), but we still don't get them all. As for inner city players, there is something to be said about going to a big state university where there might be more academic flexibility and (perhaps more importantly) more of a comfortable social scene. We still do better than most schools, but if a great player picks a school very different from Duke, I don't hold it against them. When a great player picks Georgetown, Stanford, Vandy, Northwestern, etc, I do wonder a bit more about why they wouldn't come to Duke, but it's fairly rare for us to lose a great player to anybody from this cluster of schools. If they pick Carolina, I just assume they've had their souls stolen...

  2. #1862
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Triangle
    While I understand what Brett Friedlander was implying in the front page link, his research was lacking in many ways. UNC? Anyhow, I have seen it stated that fans in the Triangle are fed up. In my opinion, there are two reasons for the angst. For Duke fans, it's the waiting game(s) But for NCSU and UNC fans, well, they are not exactly in the running like Duke is supposed to be. Of course, anything can happen in recruiting. Lots and lost of rumors surrounding this one and lots and lots of opinions

  3. #1863
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Southern California

    End in Sight

    From the link on the home page, it says that from talking to Wall, he seems like he is very close to deciding where he will go to college. That is good news as it seemed like he would never choose and keep adding schools to his list.

  4. #1864
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke #33 View Post
    From the link on the home page, it says that from talking to Wall, he seems like he is very close to deciding where he will go to college. That is good news as it seemed like he would never choose and keep adding schools to his list.
    Please, for the love of God, not before post #2000!

  5. #1865
    Quote Originally Posted by fogey View Post
    Please, for the love of God, not before post #2000!
    Hey, it could be a lot worse. Take the Lance Stephenson article link on the homepage. At least Wall seems not to be the prima donna Stephenson and is wanted, while some teams are distancing themselves from Stephenson a bit as if you read in between the lines that St. John's may be glad he cut them from the list and Calipari of all people doesn't want him. And Stephenson is a top 10 recruit to boot.

  6. #1866
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by NYDukie View Post
    Hey, it could be a lot worse. Take the Lance Stephenson article link on the homepage. At least Wall seems not to be the prima donna Stephenson and is wanted, while some teams are distancing themselves from Stephenson a bit as if you read in between the lines that St. John's may be glad he cut them from the list and Calipari of all people doesn't want him. And Stephenson is a top 10 recruit to boot.
    Stephenson is not the only top 10 recruit who will be a challenge to coach. Just watching Ricardo Sidney and Cousins play can be frustrating; while they have ability, they don't seem to play hard, are not in great shape, and lack in some fundamentals. I don't include John Wall on this list at all.

    I'm wondering whether the prima donna effect is a symptom of the times, or just a notable feature of the 2009 class.

  7. #1867
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Red Lion, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by kramerbr View Post
    Exactly the reason why premium sites are very very nice...
    Kramer, I am a member of 2 premium sites so your comment here is, IMO, pointless. My argument is valid until we land a PG, and at this point it hasn't happened. While I value what those sites say, it means nothing until the recruit actually commits (see Patterson, Monroe, Boynton, etc.)

  8. #1868
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Red Lion, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    I don't know. I actually have read the whole thread, but if someone were to want to get on board now, it would be pretty time consuming to go back and read the whole thing from start to finish.



    We could debate all day about athleticism, I suppose. I think Nolan, and for his size, Singler, are very athletic. I'm really less concerned with getting smacked around, and more concerned with being incredibly dull. If Nolan can't become a mean point guard for us and we miss on Wall, I have a bad image of us really grinding it out next year: Jon bringing the ball into the half court, Singler and Kelly bombing threes all day long. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather play like Wisconsin and win than play like old school Loyola-Mrymt. and lose (I guess), but we might have problems looking like the Duke team that likes to "push it", as was described in a recently linked Blue Planet video without an improved Nolan or Wall.

    Singler and Jon have excellent vision, but it would be nice to run sometimes. I think it leads to easy points, which is always nice, plus I'm sure that it helps recruiting.

    Edouble, you are right, we could debate athleticism all day. Smith is somewhat athletic, but when I compare him to the other top 20 teams from last year I would say he is average athletically, IMO. Singler? Let's just say I disagree with you believing he is athletic, again IMO. I do not see him playing the 3 on the defensive end. I hope we keep him at the 4.

  9. #1869
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Red Lion, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by NSDukeFan View Post
    http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.c...asp?CID=886970 and then add Seth Curry, with the potential for other(s)

    I am not at all worried about Duke basketball next year, even if we don't have any additions to the team. Yes, yes, yes, it would be great to have a great point guard and Kareem, Wilt, or Russell (probably even now for Russell and Kareem) at center. However, one of the things that makes basketball such a fun sport to watch, is that there are many ways to have a successful team and I look forward to seeing how K uses the many talented parts he has in place for next year, even if we don't get John Stockton, Isaiah Thomas or John Wall to come to Duke.


    I wouldn't say I don't like your post, just that I don't at all agree with it. The ultimate goal in college b-ball was and is to win the national championship, which one team does each year. The ultimate goal for a university's basketball program such as Duke may not necessarily be to do whatever it takes to try to win this title, without worrying about the integrity and ethics of the university.
    Your recruiting thinking speaks of "potential for other(s)." That's exactly my point. Sure there is potential, but we have missed out the past few years, and if we miss out on a PG for next year, IMO we are in trouble. Will we have a good year? Sure, K is a darn good coach (sorry for the Roy-type talk) but his options will be limited in certain key areas, more so than the other top 10 teams or so. I know that only one team cuts the nets down, but we should at least be competitive and considered one of the top 4 or 8. We have not been the last 3 years and next year will be the same until we sure up the weak spots. I know I sound negative, but this is just realism. Will I support Duke basketball either way? Of course I will! It's just frustrating going through this recruiting period.

  10. #1870
    Can someone please clear this up for me?

    How can Kentucky have room for Beldsoe and Wall?
    How can Miami have room for Wall?

    Kentucky has 14 scholarship players coming back. That is not including Patterson or Meeks. And Jodie Meeks probably will return because he is a second round pick.

    Miami has 12 scholarship players coming back at the moment but Dwayne Collins is also likely to return which would make it 13 scholarships.

    How can Miami and Kentucky recruit Wall if they can't guarantee a spot on the roster? Are they just hoping one of their players transfers?

  11. #1871
    Quote Originally Posted by DDB4208 View Post
    Can someone please clear this up for me?

    How can Kentucky have room for Beldsoe and Wall?
    How can Miami have room for Wall?

    Kentucky has 14 scholarship players coming back. That is not including Patterson or Meeks. And Jodie Meeks probably will return because he is a second round pick.

    Miami has 12 scholarship players coming back at the moment but Dwayne Collins is also likely to return which would make it 13 scholarships.

    How can Miami and Kentucky recruit Wall if they can't guarantee a spot on the roster? Are they just hoping one of their players transfers?
    This has been explained ad nauseam on this thread. Scholarships are only promised on a year-to-year basis and are renewed every year, but the school is not required to renew them. Kentucky or Miami can simply not renew the scholarship of one (or more) of the other players on the team.

  12. #1872

    Wall not Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by NYDukie View Post
    Hey, it could be a lot worse. Take the Lance Stephenson article link on the homepage. At least Wall seems not to be the prima donna Stephenson and is wanted, while some teams are distancing themselves from Stephenson a bit as if you read in between the lines that St. John's may be glad he cut them from the list and Calipari of all people doesn't want him. And Stephenson is a top 10 recruit to boot.
    Having made, in a recent post, a contrast between the on-court demeanor of Wall and Stephenson, I second NYDukie's point [and roywhite's, too]. I've referred to the Wall saga as near-hilarious, which is rather kinder than a few references from other posters.

    Yet the Tim Stevens profile of Wall should bring all of us up just a bit short: how could one not be at least slightly charmed by Wall's "I'm just a kid"? Or his befuddled -not at all big-headed- responses to various ill-informed rumors?

    With Stephenson, one finds numerous "read-between-the-lines" red flags; with Wall, I haven't seen 'em. And what I saw in all-star games, limited to be sure, was Wall-positive, Stephenson.... uh, not so much.

    John Wall doesn't appear to be leading people on. Rather, he appears to be agonizing over a complicated decision, one not fairly described as "C'mon Wall, cut the crap." I trust we'll be unanimous in welcoming him if and when he decides to enroll at Duke, and nearly so in wishing him a wonderful time elsewhere, except if and when he's on the court as an opponent.

    Let's hope John Wall celebrates a sweet Mother's Day a week from now. Hard to believe, perhaps, but right now that's a more important day for him than.... other things.

  13. #1873
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    With Stephenson, one finds numerous "read-between-the-lines" red flags; with Wall, I haven't seen 'em. And what I saw in all-star games, limited to be sure, was Wall-positive, Stephenson.... uh, not so much.
    If you recall, I believe last summer, there were tryouts for one of the junior national teams that Kelly was on and coached by McKillop in which Stephson was cut from b/c of his "there is not I in team" approach. Here you had a team with players of similar ability and he was trying to put himself ahead of the team. This was not an all-star game but a respected tourney to maintain or improve the U.S's rep. You can take another step further and read up on some of articles up here in the NYC area where I live and you get the feeling the Stephenson situation is very similar to that of Marbury and Telfair as they all grew up in the same Coney Island neighborhood, played for the same H.S., not sure if they all played for the same coach but all appeared to be treated in a "god" like manner in which the enabled them to feel entitled to certain basketball related matters. I know the NYC player reputation has lost a bit of its luster, but the way the above noted players carried themselves and contributed to the prima donna persona has done nothing to help such NYC area products the past few years as Levance Fields, Kemba Walker and Sylvan Landesberg (product of my H.S. alma mater) and others. Not to diverge too much more from the Wall thread, but it seems again that Wall appears to not be the extreme head ache that Stephenson may be, or that like Cousins and Sidney. I'm not saying he is "innocent" in all matters but I don't think he's such a problem that he isn't worth the recruiting "effort" that some seem he is. I just think many are a bit jaded by the Monroe and Patterson events that transpired in which we were "possibly" led to believe Duke was the leader coming down the end for a while and then left at the alter and are taking out that frustration on the Wall situation which is pretty much very different.
    Last edited by -jk; 05-03-2009 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Fix quote tag

  14. #1874
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Hats off to Mr. Wall. This is a major decission in his young life and he wants to make sure he chooses what's best for him. I hope it's Duke. I hope he believes he is capable of handling the rigors of a top ten basketball and ACADEMIC institution. So often coaches will do almost anything to get the best recruits, never thinking of what's best for the player. The coaches' income is dependent on the recruits ability on the court or the field. Many colleges will go after a kid hard telling them how much they love him until they get someone ranked higher on their board. Seems like Mr. Wall is not falling for the bait. I believe Coach K may be the only coach to tell him the straight out truth. Let's hope playing for the best coach at the best school is enough for him.

  15. #1875
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia

    We're both crossing our fingers for Wall, Barnes, Knight, Irving?

    Quote Originally Posted by quickgtp View Post
    Your recruiting thinking speaks of "potential for other(s)." That's exactly my point. Sure there is potential, but we have missed out the past few years, and if we miss out on a PG for next year, IMO we are in trouble. Will we have a good year? Sure, K is a darn good coach (sorry for the Roy-type talk) but his options will be limited in certain key areas, more so than the other top 10 teams or so. I know that only one team cuts the nets down, but we should at least be competitive and considered one of the top 4 or 8. We have not been the last 3 years and next year will be the same until we sure up the weak spots. I know I sound negative, but this is just realism. Will I support Duke basketball either way? Of course I will! It's just frustrating going through this recruiting period.
    I agree that it is frustrating going through this recruiting period, but think that even without the potential, we have a very good class already signed up for 2010, so I just thought your comment that "K is losing his recruiting touch/magic/drive...whatever you want to call it" was a bit harsh.

    You are right that we have not been considered one of the top 4 or 8 teams at the end of each of the last 3 years, but we have been at some point each of those years and have been pretty close, with some disappointments in the tournament. Unlike some posters, I don't feel the NCAA tournament is the be-all and end-all for a season's success, though do agree it is very important. I don't think I disagree much with you, just that you seem a bit prone to exaggeration on the pessimistic side and maybe I am a bit on the optimistic side.

  16. #1876
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    This has been explained ad nauseam on this thread. Scholarships are only promised on a year-to-year basis and are renewed every year, but the school is not required to renew them. Kentucky or Miami can simply not renew the scholarship of one (or more) of the other players on the team.
    But that's only the technical answer. The real issue underlying DDB4's question is an ethical one. If a player is offered a scholarship, there's always been an implied promise that so long as the player does what he's supposed to, i.e., not get into trouble with the law or the school, go to class, take the required courses, get the required GPA, show up for practices, work as hard as he can on the court, that he is there for the full ride.

    If in coach ______________'s* scheme of things, this implied promise is also conditioned on something else: say, if a better player is recruited and the scholly is needed to sign that better player, so the scholly for the lesser player is yanked, there is an ethical issue, if not a legal one.

    What kind of college system does this if these players are truly student athletes? If the purpose of the scholarship is to educate the student given it?

    Of course, it never really comes down to this. Strings are pulled, options are given to the lesser player, and all gets smoothed over. The curtain isn't pulled back to reveal the hypocritical machinery and everyone who benefits pretends that's it's all ok, and the NCAA makes it a point to use the phrase "student-athlete" ad nauseum during the tournament, as if by saying the phrase often enough it makes it real.

    Where in the heck is Toto when you need him.


    *fill in the blank

  17. #1877
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by jatotown View Post
    But that's only the technical answer. The real issue underlying DDB4's question is an ethical one. If a player is offered a scholarship, there's always been an implied promise that so long as the player does what he's supposed to, i.e., not get into trouble with the law or the school, go to class, take the required courses, get the required GPA, show up for practices, work as hard as he can on the court, that he is there for the full ride.

    If in coach ______________'s* scheme of things, this implied promise is also conditioned on something else: say, if a better player is recruited and the scholly is needed to sign that better player, so the scholly for the lesser player is yanked, there is an ethical issue, if not a legal one.

    What kind of college system does this if these players are truly student athletes? If the purpose of the scholarship is to educate the student given it?

    Of course, it never really comes down to this. Strings are pulled, options are given to the lesser player, and all gets smoothed over. The curtain isn't pulled back to reveal the hypocritical machinery and everyone who benefits pretends that's it's all ok, and the NCAA makes it a point to use the phrase "student-athlete" ad nauseum during the tournament, as if by saying the phrase often enough it makes it real.

    Where in the heck is Toto when you need him.


    *fill in the blank
    There is also a time issue that needs to be considered. The university has to make a decision about renewing the scholarship at some point. I'm not sure what that date is but I know that there is a deadline for making the decision as to extend the scholarship or to rescind it. They have to give the player enough time to figure out how they are going to cover their tuition.

  18. #1878
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Looks like it will be at least another week before we hear anything further on Mr. Wall according to Rivals. I have nothing against John Wall and this process. I don't think it is anything like the Bryce Brown saga that the NCAA Football world went through a couple months ago. I do find it interesting that it has been such a long process for someone that could possibly only be in school for a year. You would think that someone in his position would just pick a school that seems like a good fit and get it over with. One could argue that this process is a positive because he is not just randomly making a decision without any consideration. This is perceived to be such a negative, mainly because we are in such need of his services. Everyday, Duke fans are looking for updates, but everyday the updates are the same: "Wall to wait until next week to trim list.
    I have not agreed with Coach K and his staff this season with their recruiting approach mainly because they threw all their eggs in one basket even though Coach K publicly admitted, "We need a point." I would've been very happy if we landed a Darius Smith (now with UCONN) or gone after Bledsoe a little more, but they didn't seriously consider either of them. Now, if we land Wall, all will be forgotten and Durham will be rocking once again, however in the event we don't, the consequences could be bigger than everyone thinks. I will always have faith in Coach K, but you have to admit, this move might be a little too risky.

    PS- How sick would it be if Gerald Henderson just decided to go talk to John Wall and say, "Dude, come to Duke and I'll come back for my last year and we'll tear up the ACC and win it all."

    Ah, one can dream.

  19. #1879
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    One additional question I have been wondering. In regards to Kentucky, with Calipari going hard after Wall and Bledsoe, what are the two of them thinking about eachother's decision? Could Bledsoe be waiting to see what Wall does or vice versa? Or could Bledsoe just decide tomorrow, I am going to Kentucky? I believe Calipari has offered, but I could be wrong. It would make sense I guess that Calipari is waiting to see what Wall does before he decides anything with Bledsoe, but with no answer coming soon it seems, it would be hard to imagine Calipari would be so conservative with him cause Bledsoe is a very good player in his own right.

    Also, has Coach K and John Wall met again since that one meeting a month or so ago?

  20. #1880
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Southern California
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoCrazy84 View Post
    One additional question I have been wondering. In regards to Kentucky, with Calipari going hard after Wall and Bledsoe, what are the two of them thinking about eachother's decision? Could Bledsoe be waiting to see what Wall does or vice versa?
    I think that if Bledsoe decides to go to Kentucky, that will not effect Walls decision because Wall is the better player who is more ready to play so even if they are both on the same team, Wall will get the minutes because he is better. Now if Wall decided to go to Kentucky and Bledsoe has not decided, I think that it would be unlikely that Bledsoe would also commit to Kentucky knowing that he will all ready be behind Wall and have to compete for serious minutes.

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