John Wall Recruitment

[Ian]

We are looking good the next couple of years with or without Wall and G, though I would love to have either or both, G especially.

Honestly from reading this thread I get the feeling that if put up a poll asking people they can have either G back for his senior year or get John Wall for a year, but not both, about 80% would rather get Wall for a year.

I think that's kind of sad.

[bass-piscator]

"Christian Laettner with his 2 titles and 4 Final Fours says hi"

Great response.

Sometimes I think this board is like a wine forum. Never satisfied with a truly excellent bottle. Always wanting more. The master of the vineyard doesn't select the best grapes. The winemaster doesn't take those fruits and blend them to make the finest wine. And like pompous arses we raise our glasses and discuss what could have been instead of enjoying the moment. The vineyard down the road made our wine taste like vinegar. Alas!

Great year. Looking forward to next. Go Duke! Go Siena!

BTW, the fans at IC couldn't even spell Siena correctly... repeatedly.

[Kedsy]

I still think what BD was saying is that we are at a critical time in the history of the K era. That's what makes this such an important recruiting battle. It's not that he's going to be better than Danny or Grant or Bobby or Jason, etc. The point is we needed Johnny as that first elite recruit to get the ball rolling. Then after we were down again we got Elton, who was a different type player than the kind we had been getting previously (a back to the basket monster). Now we've seen another let down (by Duke standards) and this kid can really turn things around for the program. So he's very important in this sense of the timing of things for the program overall.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree to an extent. There is a perception that Duke is down and can no longer bring in the great point guards or back-to-the-basket centers. To the extent that any recruit refutes that myth and leads other recruits to consider Duke that may not have considered us otherwise, that recruit is obviously important.

My differences with you in this particular discussion are twofold: first, even with the above explanation, I think we've had a lot more than three recruits who were more important than a known one-and-done; and second I'm not sure if the perception is more in our fans' minds than it is in the recruits' minds. If it's the former (which is what I suspect), then that lessens Wall's importance.

Obviously I don't have personal information about this, but it doesn't seem all that credible to me that top wing guards and face-the-basket big men think Duke is "cool" but point guards and back-to-the-basket centers don't think so. And even if it were true, how much will getting one guy change so many minds? Anyway, that's why I said I disagreed, not because I didn't understand your point or thought your basic premise was flawed.

In any event, I totally agree with you that getting John Wall would be a fabulous coup for the program.

[Boston Dukie]

I still think what BD was saying is that we are at a critical time in the history of the K era. That's what makes this such an important recruiting battle. It's not that he's going to be better than Danny or Grant or Bobby or Jason, etc. The point is we needed Johnny as that first elite recruit to get the ball rolling. Then after we were down again we got Elton, who was a different type player than the kind we had been getting previously (a back to the basket monster). Now we've seen another let down (by Duke standards) and this kid can really turn things around for the program. So he's very important in this sense of the timing of things for the program overall.

Yes Gary, this is exactly what I meant. Getting the #1 prospect after joining the party late, when everyone was saying Duke is down, K can't get the top guys anymore, etc. all while dramatically increasing Duke's chances to win an NC and increase its coolness factor would create huge momentum for Duke and shut up all the pundits instantly.

Whether Wall would have the on court impact of Ferry, Hill, Laettner, or Jwill is crazy to think, but there is a lot more at stake here. The flood gates would re-open and things would 180 in an instance.

Things are fine if Duke doesn't get Wall, but getting him would be huge for the next 5-7 years (creating the third coach K phase of glory).

Btw, someone mentioned that it was Battier who recruited Brand (sorry if I had that backward), if so than I think Brand/Battier as a pair would be the 2nd most important recruit(s).

[geraldsneighbor]

Yes Gary, this is exactly what I meant. Getting the #1 prospect after joining the party late, when everyone was saying Duke is down, K can't get the top guys anymore, etc. all while dramatically increasing Duke's chances to win an NC and increase its coolness factor would create huge momentum for Duke and shut up all the pundits instantly.

Whether Wall would have the on court impact of Ferry, Hill, Laettner, or Jwill is crazy to think, but there is a lot more at stake here. The flood gates would re-open and things would 180 in an instance.

Things are fine if Duke doesn't get Wall, but getting him would be huge for the next 5-7 years (creating the third coach K phase of glory).

Btw, someone mentioned that it was Battier who recruited Brand (sorry if I had that backward), if so than I think Brand/Battier as a pair would be the 2nd most important recruit(s).

I agree. We need a PG though. Wall is a PG and is very talented. I think as fans we saw the importance of having a dominant PG who the position comes naturally to. While Jon performed well, he is a 2-guard and we need him there. Landing a PG would help immensely for this team.

I want G over Wall but that is just me. I love G obviously and want him back because we need him to be successful. Hopefully a PG comes with him back to Durham.

[turnandburn55]

this level of angst has almost EVERYTHING to do with the recent relative success of our ugly blue neighbors.

Standalone, we're doing okay and looking like we'll do even better in the next several years.

Disagree. 2 Final Fours in this decade (and none in the last 5 years) is what's making us feel anxious. 30 win seasons and Sweet 16 appearances are fine, but at some point, we're all getting anxious to returning to being the big dog. UNC's success only underscores that point.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Winning National Championships these days is not about one important recruit...it is about getting a series of excellent recruits and being fortunate enough to have the stars align (pun intended) to keep them together long enough to take advantage...I hope we get Wall, Bledsoe, or one or more of the guys that are potentially floating out there with all the coaching changes and possible sanctions against UCONN. I am sure Coach K and our staff will do their best to get the guy or guys they think we need. (VA Preps is reporting Deshawn Painter is no longer going to Florida by the way.) More importantly, I hope G stays. Lots can happen and things are unpredictable for those of us (like me) who follow college hoops closely but are not in the know. Who would have thought Carolina would stay in tact this time last year? I certainly didn't.

UNC doesn't win this year without all their players coming back...Even if they lost Green (who was probably the least important of the returning players), I am not sure they win the ACC regular season (at least not outright). They had many pieces and as much as it pains me to admit, they earned the title. The proved to be the best this season. A series of excellent recruits, who played well together and stayed together against the odds.

2001 -- Battier, Booz, JWill, Mikie D, Duhon, (Fifth-year) Natedog, etc. We, like Carolina, likely don't win the title without all those pieces...We, like them, are fortunate to have had all these guys around to get this done as many of these guys could have gone and played in the NBA earlier.

1992 Laettner, Hurley, G Money, THill, Parks, Lang, BD, Clark, etc.
1991 Laett, Hurley, G Money, THill, Lang, McCaffrey, BD, Lang, Koubek, etc.

All of these teams were extremely balanced, experienced, and fortunate to have all their players around. Interestingly, they all overcame injuries to key players at various points in the season to win the title.

To me, the biggest losses for Duke were Deng and Livingston and Humphries. I know Mikie D, Avery, and to a lesser extent Maggette were surpise departures as well, but the unexpected nature of the Deng's departure and not getting either Livingston and Humphries cost us a great opportunity or two. Those are the breaks in major college hoops I guess.

I am happy with what Duke is doing (though I am always disappointed when the season ends earlier than we all would hope). We have a lot of great players coming in to add to a talented roster. If G stays, I'll take my chances with our team against anyone. If he leaves, we will still be very good and hopefully will respond like the 2000 team did. Perhaps Singler will respond like Battier did and stay for his senior year (even when there will be a huge pull for him to go to the NBA). For National Championship dreams, this is the type of thing that needs to happen whether or not we get the Carmelo Anthony's or Wall's of the world.

[slower]

Disagree. 2 Final Fours in this decade (and none in the last 5 years) is what's making us feel anxious. 30 win seasons and Sweet 16 appearances are fine, but at some point, we're all getting anxious to returning to being the big dog. UNC's success only underscores that point.

that UNC's current level of success is what has driven the current mood from discontent to near-hysteria. An angst turbocharger, if you will.

[Duke76]

I think we would have won another championship. That one hurt just as much as losing Deng or Cory. Actually i think we would have 2 or 4 more had all those guys not left

[DDB4208]

As many of you know John Wall was contacted by Roy Williams before the Final Four and Brain Clifton (JW's AAU Coach) said to the News and Observer, "I have no desire to talk to, to be involved with, to visit, to contemplate in any shape, form or fashion John Wall going to play for Roy Williams. Zero." John Wall also said "It wasn't anything major, he just called to check in, see how I was doing, what was going on. It's nothing big. North Carolina is not recruiting me right now." But now I have seen on multiple forums and websites that say that John will heavily consider UNC if they do recruit him because it is as he said "my decision". This is bad news for us because we are now no longer have a leg up on every other school in terms of closeness to home. Plus UNC just won a championship, so I would not be surprised at all if John goes to UNC (The last sentence was MY opinion only I have no sources to back it up).

This site has updates on J-Walls recruitment:

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/category/tags/John-Wall

[DDB4208]

Has anyone seen He Got Game with Ray Allen (Great movie)? Because this is starting to seem a lot like it.

[moonpie23]

As many of you know John Wall was contacted by Roy Williams before the Final Four and Brain Clifton (JW's AAU Coach) said to the News and Observer, "I have no desire to talk to, to be involved with, to visit, to contemplate in any shape, form or fashion John Wall going to play for Roy Williams. Zero." John Wall also said "It wasn't anything major, he just called to check in, see how I was doing, what was going on. It's nothing big. North Carolina is not recruiting me right now." But now I have seen on multiple forums and websites that say that John will heavily consider UNC if they do recruit him because it is as he said "my decision". This is bad news for us because we are now no longer have a leg up on every other school in terms of closeness to home. Plus UNC just won a championship, so I would not be surprised at all if John goes to UNC (The last sentence was MY opinion only I have no sources to back it up).

This site has updates on J-Walls recruitment:

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/category/tags/John-Wall

Great...at least we're pretty sure that we've got someone ix-naying the holes on a regular basis with John..


let's all envision this....

introducing John in CIS to a DEAFENING CRESCENDO OF CHEERS on opening night....


(the wine and cheese crowd would be out getting a pinot grigio at the snack bar and would miss it)

[sagegrouse]

I think we would have won another championship. That one hurt just as much as losing Deng or Cory. Actually i think we would have 2 or 4 more had all those guys not left

WRT to Ed McCaffrey's little brother Billy (Ed has Duke connections through his marriage to the daughter of Duke Olympian and world record holder Dave Sime), you are saying that with Billy McCaffrey still in Duke blue, we would have won the 1993 tournament (where we lost in the 2nd round to Cal). Since we won the 1992 tournament without Billy, I am hard-pressed to see how he would have helped us that much in 1993.

WRT losing Deng or Maggette, I tend to think that if Luol had stayed at least three years, we would have returned to the FF and perhaps won a championship. But that's the world we live in. Top players were leaving from the competitors as well (Okafor, e.g.) plus the trio (Big, Little and Crazy) that brought the championship to the Heels in 2005. Thus, I don't think "other things equal" (ceteris paribus) is a realistic assumption.

sagegrouse
'The "of" in the message title should be "or"'

[gep]

I agree. We need a PG though. Wall is a PG and is very talented. I think as fans we saw the importance of having a dominant PG who the position comes naturally to. While Jon performed well, he is a 2-guard and we need him there. Landing a PG would help immensely for this team.

I don't know anything about Wall except for what I read here on DBR. First, it appears very likely that Wall is a one-and-done player. Totally speculating here... maybe, as a one-and-done, he's not the "typical" Duke student-athlete, especially if his "performance" with Duke is more important personally than the team. Then, if he *is* the PG that Duke *really* needs and leads Duke to the FF or NC, what happens the next year when he leaves? Is Duke back in the "need a really good PG to go far" situation again? Or is the successful recruitment of Wall the "feather in the cap" of Duke, which by perception, is more important than building for the future... just 1/2 cent thoughts...

[ice-9]

I strongly disagree with the idea that Wall could be the third most important recruit in Duke history. In fact, I think it's kinda rubbish. One recruit does not make Duke basketball.

Even if Wall turns us down, what if we get Brandon Knight? Or Harrison Barnes? Eric Bledsoe? Irving? Not to mention the 5-star recruits we already have on board.

The PG position is the toughest to adjust to going from one level to the next. While Wall is an undeniable talent, it's just not that clear what his impact to Duke will be should he enroll.

Even if Wall ends up at UNC, it's hardly the end of the universe. Remember that just a few years ago we had UNC's momentum; all it took was a few players who did not meet expectations (Hansbrough and Lawson to exceed; McRoberts, Paulus, Livingston to fall short) to reverse that momentum.

Recruiting is such an inexact science, you just never know when that pendulum will swing again. To say that Wall will definitively be that turning point is...it's just too much.

[hokieDEVIL83]

http://prepinsiders.blogspot.com/200...all-chase.html

Basically the article is arguing that Memphis is still in the mix due to the new coach's "friendship" with Wall's mentor/handler. He was also the "point person" when Calapari was recruiting Wall at Memphis.

The article goes on to mention Wall's Duke visit and a "very good" meeting with Coach K. It also mentions the Roy Williams call and states that Wall himself said Williams just called to see how he was doing and that UNC is not recruiting him.


Sorry if this info was already mentioned in previous post (I only read the last 30 or so

[Franzez]

http://prepinsiders.blogspot.com/200...all-chase.html

Basically the article is arguing that Memphis is still in the mix due to the new coach's "friendship" with Wall's mentor/handler. He was also the "point person" when Calapari was recruiting Wall at Memphis.

The article goes on to mention Wall's Duke visit and a "very good" meeting with Coach K. It also mentions the Roy Williams call and states that Wall himself said Williams just called to see how he was doing and that UNC is not recruiting him.


Sorry if this info was already mentioned in previous post (I only read the last 30 or so

No problem.

[RockyMtDevil]

Just got a text message from an UK basketball insider saying they are "very confidant" wall is following Calipari to Kentucky.

too bad.

[SupaDave]

At this point, due to this board, many of us are ready for him to decide so that we can close this thread.

[freshmanjs]

Just got a text message from an UK basketball insider saying they are "very confidant" wall is following Calipari to Kentucky.

too bad.

at this point that is a decent outcome for us.