John Wall Recruitment

[SupaDave]

Gotham - you're right, I suppose that would be way too much to ask of them. My point was mainly that we really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes... as evidenced by that link.

I swear, Memphis shouldn't be eligible for the NCAA tournament next year, as they really in no way resemble a true college basketball program. It reminds me of one of those shady little HS "prep academies" whose roster changes throughout the year and happens to have an AAU coach for a principal - just somewhere to coast through for a year and promote yourself until you move to the next level. I suppose it's a smart career move for some kids within the current system, but man...

Don't be mad at the kids - be mad at the system.

[quickgtp]

Who we? What time has the coaching staff invested? Perhaps you have wasted time posting about "this kid." You could stop.

What information do you have that the staff is in any way altering its pursuit of Bledsoe due to Wall?

I enjoy the prospect of John coming to Duke. I also enjoy the prospect of Eric coming.

I recommend you sit back and enjoy. Unless you want to be one that gets to say: "I told you we shouldn't have wasted our time." I think posters like that are often ignored.

Any time that the coaching staff has invested on Wall is time that they could be using on another prospect such as Bledsoe. Perhaps you have wasted time reading AND responding to my post.

If you didn't notice I was asking a question, yet you come back to me with one. Nice.

I don't know how you are enjoying the "prospect" of John Wall coming to Duke because there hasn't been much of anything hinting that he is even considering it.

I recommend you sit back and stop being so critical of other people's posts. If I was so ignored why did you respond then?

[-jk]

Folks, let's lay off the personal stuff and stick to the topic at hand.

Please.

-jk

[SupaDave]

Annnnnnd back to Wall.

I have to admit - Memphis is VERY attractive. One of my best friends is a chiropractor in Memphis and when he says that Memphis is the biggest show in town - he means it. Why? He's a Univ. of Tenn. grad.

Don't forget that while Duke has a history of excellence, Memphis has a different kind of history and offers a recruit something totally different.

You can play in the house that Penny built in the city where he himself was not only shot and robbed but also at the school where academic setbacks didn't keep Hardaway away from the league - or endorsements (It's me Lil' Penny!).

BUT if Tyreke Evans and his LACK of a jump shot decide to stay at Memphis for one more year - everything changes. Evans has reason to stay as well - they'll be loaded next year and I'm not so sure that Evans is ready for the next level. It's something to watch.

Supa 'I just thought of making Lil' Penny my avatar' Dave

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Memphis does indeed offer "$omething" different.

I've been extremely enthusiastic about Wall coming to Duke, because I assumed that decision would indicate a desire to be part of a team and to spend at least a year working to become a grown man, rather than a gifted adolescent. A decision to go to Memphis would say something very different about his character.

Duke (and UNC, and many other programs) are like vitamins, while Memphis is candy. I haven't given up on Wall making a grown-up decision to surround himself with coaches, teachers, and an environment that will help him grow. But if he decides on the empty calories so be it.

[SupaDave]

Memphis does indeed offer "$omething" different.

I've been extremely enthusiastic about Wall coming to Duke, because I assumed that decision would indicate a desire to be part of a team and to spend at least a year working to become a grown man, rather than a gifted adolescent. A decision to go to Memphis would say something very different about his character.

Duke (and UNC, and many other programs) are like vitamins, while Memphis is candy. I haven't given up on Wall making a grown-up decision to surround himself with coaches, teachers, and an environment that will help him grow. But if he decides on the empty calories so be it.

Derrick Rose pretty much negates this whole comment.

Rose chose Memphis because the fact that the school's director of student-athlete development Rod Strickland had 17 years of experience in the NBA and could mentor him. Rose switched to #23, unable to wear his customary #25 because that number was retired in honor of Penny Hardaway.

[Kedsy]

Memphis does indeed offer "$omething" different.

I've been extremely enthusiastic about Wall coming to Duke, because I assumed that decision would indicate a desire to be part of a team and to spend at least a year working to become a grown man, rather than a gifted adolescent. A decision to go to Memphis would say something very different about his character.

Duke (and UNC, and many other programs) are like vitamins, while Memphis is candy. I haven't given up on Wall making a grown-up decision to surround himself with coaches, teachers, and an environment that will help him grow. But if he decides on the empty calories so be it.

Oh, come on. Putting aside your suggestion of a payoff, a decision to go to Memphis says almost nothing about his character. He's not planning to stay at school for more than a year, so the decision would presumably be based solely on basketball and getting along with the coaches and players.

If he chooses to go to Memphis it means: (a) he likes Coach Calipari and believes Calipari can help his game get ready for the League (and don't say this means he has poor character or judgment; Coach K is amazing, but he's not the only coach in America that can help a player's game improve -- personally I don't think Calipari's a particularly good coach, but he has players in the NBA who seem to be doing reasonably well); (b) he thinks he'll be comfortable playing with other athletic freshmen and sophomores like himself; and (c) he thinks that Memphis with Henry and Cousins and maybe Evans has the best chance among the teams he is considering to win the national title.

I love Duke, but the suggestion that a kid is a bad person just because he decides to go somewhere else makes me a little bit ill.

[SupaDave]

Oh, come on. Putting aside your suggestion of a payoff, a decision to go to Memphis says almost nothing about his character. He's not planning to stay at school for more than a year, so the decision would presumably be based solely on basketball and getting along with the coaches and players.

If he chooses to go to Memphis it means: (a) he likes Coach Calipari and believes Calipari can help his game get ready for the League (and don't say this means he has poor character or judgment; Coach K is amazing, but he's not the only coach in America that can help a player's game improve -- personally I don't think Calipari's a particularly good coach, but he has players in the NBA who seem to be doing reasonably well); (b) he thinks he'll be comfortable playing with other athletic freshmen and sophomores like himself; and (c) he thinks that Memphis with Henry and Cousins and maybe Evans has the best chance among the teams he is considering to win the national title.

I love Duke, but the suggestion that a kid is a bad person just because he decides to go somewhere else makes me a little bit ill.

Well said...

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Not saying he's a bad person at all, I've never met him and wouldn't presume to judge. Just saying that choosing to go to a basketball factory indicates that he's only interested in basketball, not buying in to any type of long-term "family" of the type that K, Roy, etc. work to develop.

There's no shame in saying "I don't care about school, just CTC" (as 'Sheed was fond of saying). Some kids just want to go to the NBA ASAP because they need the money and/or being part of something larger than themselves just isn't that important to them. That doesn't make them bad people, just bad fits for Duke. Choosing a factory like Memphis would be a clear indicator that what Duke has to offer isn't what he's looking for. Bad fit, not bad person.

[Reddevil]

Don't be mad at the kids - be mad at the system.

Like it or not, Coach Cal is taking advantage of the current system brilliantly. Memphis is in a conference that they will dominate every year. He has created a program tailored to the one and done kids. This will attract many top 10 prospects each year. As long as the rules stay as they are, Memphis will be a powerful fixture in the polls, and NCAA tournament. Young men who decide to go this route are not flawed at all. It is seen as a reasonable means to a desired end with national exposure to boot.

Unfortunately, success breeds imitation, so this strategy will crop up in other programs. As stated many times before, the NCAA, NBA, and the Union really need to get together and make a new plan. It is in everyone’s best interest to let kids go pro out of high school, but if they commit to a University, it should be for at least two years. Rules can be adapted for those who declare for the NBA, but don’t get drafted, or 18 year olds can be treated like the adults that they are legally supposed to be and just deal with the consequences.

Until/unless this happens, the spirit of collegiate athletics will be tarnished. A major factor in being a fan of a place like Duke, and many other fine programs, is the underlying belief that there is yet some “purity” left in competition. I am not naïve. I am just saying that collegiate sports may be the last bastion capable of taking the high road. Cooperation is needed from the Association though, and didn’t Stern and most of the player reps get degrees? Come on guys – make it happen! Meanwhile, check out Duke Mr. Wall, you just may fall in love with the place.

[SupaDave]

Not saying he's a bad person at all, I've never met him and wouldn't presume to judge. Just saying that choosing to go to a basketball factory indicates that he's only interested in basketball, not buying in to any type of long-term "family" of the type that K, Roy, etc. work to develop.

There's no shame in saying "I don't care about school, just CTC" (as 'Sheed was fond of saying). Some kids just want to go to the NBA ASAP because they need the money and/or being part of something larger than themselves just isn't that important to them. That doesn't make them bad people, just bad fits for Duke. Choosing a factory like Memphis would be a clear indicator that what Duke has to offer isn't what he's looking for. Bad fit, not bad person.

I'm just saying...

Today, the University of Memphis is one of Tennessee's three comprehensive doctoral-extensive institutions of higher learning. Situated in a park-like setting in east Memphis, it is the flagship university of the Tennessee Board of Regents system. The university awards more than 3,000 degrees annually.

With an enrollment of approximately 21,000 students, the University of Memphis has 25 Chairs of Excellence and five state-approved Centers of Excellence.

The university maintains the Journalism and Public Relations department, Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI), Cecil C. Humphreys School of Law, Loewenberg School of Nursing, FedEx Institute of Technology and the Institute of Egyptian Art and Archaeology. Its mathematics department has more Erdos number 1 mathematicians than any other research institution in the world.

[SupaDave]

Like it or not, Coach Cal is taking advantage of the current system brilliantly. Memphis is in a conference that they will dominate every year. He has created a program tailored to the one and done kids. This will attract many top 10 prospects each year. As long as the rules stay as they are, Memphis will be a powerful fixture in the polls, and NCAA tournament. Young men who decide to go this route are not flawed at all. It is seen as a reasonable means to a desired end with national exposure to boot.

Unfortunately, success breeds imitation, so this strategy will crop up in other programs. As stated many times before, the NCAA, NBA, and the Union really need to get together and make a new plan. It is in everyone’s best interest to let kids go pro out of high school, but if they commit to a University, it should be for at least two years. Rules can be adapted for those who declare for the NBA, but don’t get drafted, or 18 year olds can be treated like the adults that they are legally supposed to be and just deal with the consequences.

Until/unless this happens, the spirit of collegiate athletics will be tarnished. A major factor in being a fan of a place like Duke, and many other fine programs, is the underlying belief that there is yet some “purity” left in competition. I am not naïve. I am just saying that collegiate sports may be the last bastion capable of taking the high road. Cooperation is needed from the Association though, and didn’t Stern and most of the player reps get degrees? Come on guys – make it happen! Meanwhile, check out Duke Mr. Wall, you just may fall in love with the place.

Don't know how long you've been around college basketball but things have been pretty sleezy for a VERY long time. Go do some research on UNLV, Michigan, and the words "Point shaving"...

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I'm just saying...

Today, the University of Memphis is one of Tennessee's three comprehensive doctoral-extensive institutions of higher learning. Situated in a park-like setting in east Memphis, it is the flagship university of the Tennessee Board of Regents system. The university awards more than 3,000 degrees annually.

With an enrollment of approximately 21,000 students, the University of Memphis has 25 Chairs of Excellence and five state-approved Centers of Excellence.

The university maintains the Journalism and Public Relations department, Center for Earthquake Research and Information (CERI), Cecil C. Humphreys School of Law, Loewenberg School of Nursing, FedEx Institute of Technology and the Institute of Egyptian Art and Archaeology. Its mathematics department has more Erdos number 1 mathematicians than any other research institution in the world.

Memphis is a fine school. The basketball program has, IMO, an extremely tenuous relationship with that fine school. Cal has basically declared his program as the place to go if you don't want to engage with a university and you don't want to stay for a nanosecond longer than necessary.

Think about Michigan in the Fab 5 era. Michigan is a "Public Ivy" and a really, really good school, but CWebb (although he was and is very smart and from an upper-class background) didn't go there for pre-med. It doesn't make Michigan a bad school or CWebb a bad guy. But some folks want to join a program with long-term relationships (JWill, Elton, Luol) even if they jump to the NBA they buy in for the time that they are there. Other folks are in college because of the 1-year rule and have no desire to do anything but put their head down and get to the NBA.

Both approaches are fine, but they are very different. Cal is building his program around one school of thought and K is building around the other. Since both have been very public about what they expect, choosing one or the other makes a statement about what experience is desired. A guy that wants one probably wouldn't be happy in the other and probably wouldn't be a good fit for the program either.

[ice-9]

Isn't Michigan a private school?

[Indoor66]

Isn't Michigan a private school?

No. It is a public university as opposed to the University of Pennsylvania.

[brsett]

I have no love for Coach Calipari, but he has only done good for Memphis graduation rates. He actually makes the players go to class, which is more than many coaches require -- particularly at the much loved mid-majors. Again, I'm no fan of Calipari, but there is this . . .

From http://gotigersgo.cstv.com/sports/m-...i_john00.html:
But, the rise of Tiger basketball is more than wins and losses in the Calipari era. The program's bounce back is also evident in the graduation of its student-athletes, the improvement of facilities and the flocking of fans to support their Tigers.

Much like he did at UMass when his players graduated at nearly 80 percent, Calipari is doing the same at Memphis. Fifteen of the last 18 seniors that have come through the Tiger program have earned their bachelor's degrees. All three 2008-09 seniors -- Antonio Anderson, Robert Dozier and Chance McGrady -- are on schedule to graduate, and junior Shawn Taggart could graduate following the 2009 spring semester. Those graduates under Calipari have their cap-and-gown photographs hanging in the men's basketball office.

Furthermore, Calipari -- with the help of the university administration -- is reaching out to former Tigers to come back to campus and finish their degrees. Andre Turner, affectionately known to Tiger Nation as "The Little General," went through graduation ceremonies in August 2008. Chris Garner and Cedric Henderson also took advantage of Calipari's offer to return and received their degrees in 2008.

Memphis is a fine school. The basketball program has, IMO, an extremely tenuous relationship with that fine school. Cal has basically declared his program as the place to go if you don't want to engage with a university and you don't want to stay for a nanosecond longer than necessary.

Think about Michigan in the Fab 5 era. Michigan is a "Public Ivy" and a really, really good school, but CWebb (although he was and is very smart and from an upper-class background) didn't go there for pre-med. It doesn't make Michigan a bad school or CWebb a bad guy. But some folks want to join a program with long-term relationships (JWill, Elton, Luol) even if they jump to the NBA they buy in for the time that they are there. Other folks are in college because of the 1-year rule and have no desire to do anything but put their head down and get to the NBA.

Both approaches are fine, but they are very different. Cal is building his program around one school of thought and K is building around the other. Since both have been very public about what they expect, choosing one or the other makes a statement about what experience is desired. A guy that wants one probably wouldn't be happy in the other and probably wouldn't be a good fit for the program either.

[SupaDave]

Memphis is a fine school. The basketball program has, IMO, an extremely tenuous relationship with that fine school. Cal has basically declared his program as the place to go if you don't want to engage with a university and you don't want to stay for a nanosecond longer than necessary.

Think about Michigan in the Fab 5 era. Michigan is a "Public Ivy" and a really, really good school, but CWebb (although he was and is very smart and from an upper-class background) didn't go there for pre-med. It doesn't make Michigan a bad school or CWebb a bad guy. But some folks want to join a program with long-term relationships (JWill, Elton, Luol) even if they jump to the NBA they buy in for the time that they are there. Other folks are in college because of the 1-year rule and have no desire to do anything but put their head down and get to the NBA.

Both approaches are fine, but they are very different. Cal is building his program around one school of thought and K is building around the other. Since both have been very public about what they expect, choosing one or the other makes a statement about what experience is desired. A guy that wants one probably wouldn't be happy in the other and probably wouldn't be a good fit for the program either.

What's funny about this is that Memphis has only had TWO players under Coach Cal be "one and done" - Shawne Williams (who had some issues) and Derrick Rose. And only THREE All-Americans (Carney, Rose, Roberts) - two of them 3 year+ players. Sounds like a regular factory to me!

[JDev]

What's funny about this is that Memphis has only had TWO players under Coach Cal be "one and done" - Shawne Williams (who had some issues) and Derrick Rose. And only THREE All-Americans (Carney, Rose, Roberts) - two of them 3 year+ players. Sounds like a regular factory to me!

Dajuan Wagner was a one-and-done there as I recall, not that that changes your point.

[FireOgilvie]

What's funny about this is that Memphis has only had TWO players under Coach Cal be "one and done" - Shawne Williams (who had some issues) and Derrick Rose. And only THREE All-Americans (Carney, Rose, Roberts) - two of them 3 year+ players. Sounds like a regular factory to me!

True, but he's about to have 4 more (if Wall goes there and Evans leaves as expected). Keep in mind that the rule about not being drafted from HS is only 4 years old.

[SupaDave]

True, but he's about to have 4 more (if Wall goes there and Evans leaves as expected). Keep in mind that the rule about not being drafted from HS is only 4 years old.

Well you keep in mind that Duke ALREADY has THAT number of one and dones. So your point is?