John Wall Recruitment

[roywhite]

Thanks for the information. I can't believe that the deadline is so late. Can you imagine finding out on June 30th that your scholarship won;t be renewed and trying to scramble to cover tuition costs or find another school that can offer you a scholarship with only 2 months notice before school starts? I really figured the deadline would be closer to the end of the school year.

About to be a real world situation for 2 to 4 players at Kentucky.

[Franzez]

I don't know if I can name a single pro for Miami outside of "beach/weather." There certainly aren't any pros when it comes to basketball (over Duke and UK), unless "minimal pressure to win" or "general apathy from fanbase" are important.


Duke pros:

1. Coach K - between the record, 3 national championships, and Olympic experience coaching NBA All-Stars to a gold medal, this is a pretty big one. Calipari is not Coach K. He has zero national championships. Haith is in the bottom half of ACC coaches, in my opinion. I think it would be nice for John Wall to be able to say, "I played for one of the greatest college coaches of all-time."
2. Minutes - Duke has zero true point guards and 3 guards on the team total. This is not even close to the case at UK, especially with top 5 PG Eric Bledsoe. Even Miami has more depth than Duke at guard.
3. ESPN/National TV every single game. UK is not on national TV as much as Duke. Miami is not even close. National exposure is huge.
4. Reputation - Duke has a reputation for putting out quality individuals that play great team basketball and don't get in trouble off the court.
5. Academics - This might not be important for John Wall (1 year and gone), but Duke is a top 10 school.
6. Style of play - Every Duke player except Zoubek is perfect for a fast-break running offense. Kentucky has multiple lumbering centers that will have to have to be constantly fed in the post.
7. Proximity to home - He has said this is important to him.
8. Chance at a national championship - Duke would have a very good shot at a national title. The same can be said for UK. Miami might have a shot at 3rd in the ACC.
9. Conference - Both Duke and Miami are in the ACC, the best basketball conference in the country (along with the Big East). Basketball is the 2nd most important sport in the SEC.


I'm sure there are multiple others that I am missing. UK has some pros as well, but I don't think the list is comparable to Duke's.

Somebody has no clue what top recruits think anymore.

What lumbering C's are at Kentucky?
Cousins is an athletic specimen.

[roywhite]

Somebody has no clue what top recruits think anymore.

What lumbering C's are at Kentucky?
Cousins is an athletic specimen.

Calipari will earn some of his big salary if he can get Cousins to:

get in great shape
play defense consistently
play hard consistently

I'd be surprised if Cousins has the type impact as a freshman that Patrick Patterson had...or that Mason Plumlee will have, just for the sake of discussion

[TemporaryInsanity]

Below is the roster.

First person to talk about is Donald Williams. Donald was going to walk-on last year to Marquette. UK had an open scholarship and offered Donald the ride for 1 year only. He was told that he would have to walk on after this year. He will not be back on scholarship.

That leaves 3 over the limit if Meeks comes back ( which is likely ) , Wall commits (who knows) , AND Bledsoe qualifies ( another who knows). All 3 could happen or not happen. If UK stops recruiting John Wall because of scholarship limitations, and Meeks goes pro and Bledsoe does not qualify... who gets the blame? The man making 4 mill a year... so put yourself in his situation and tell me if you would recruit John Wall?

Also, with a coaching change you get roster turnover for one reason or another. The roster log jam will work itself out and not necessarily in the negative manner a few posters on this board are portraying. Whether it's style change, academics, or players facing reduced minutes... a few players will leave.

Seniors
Kevin Galloway
Perry Stevenson
Ramon Harris

Juniors
Patrick Patterson
AJ Stewart
Josh Harrellson
Matt Pilgrim

Soph
Deandre Liggins
Darius Miller
Donald Williams


New Guys
Eric Bledsoe
Demarcus Cousins
Darnell Dodson
Daniel Orton
Jon Hood

NBA?
Jodie Meeks- JR

another recruit?
John Wall?

Also, if you haven't guessed, I'm a Kentucky fan. One thing I ask is to NOT pay attention to Rupp Rafter's message board. Good message boards, like this one, only exist because of good moderators. Rupp Rafters is too big for the moderators to keep up with... therefore it's useless. The better UK posters have abandoned that site a long time ago.

[roywhite]

That leaves 3 over the limit if Meeks comes back ( which is likely ) , Wall commits (who knows) , AND Bledsoe qualifies ( another who knows). All 3 could happen or not happen. If UK stops recruiting John Wall because of scholarship limitations, and Meeks goes pro and Bledsoe does not qualify... who gets the blame? The man making 4 mill a year... so put yourself in his situation and tell me if you would recruit John Wall? Also, with a coaching change you get roster turnover for one reason or another. The roster log jam will work itself out and not necessarily in the negative manner a few posters on this board are portraying. Whether it's style change, academics, or players facing reduced minutes... a few players will leave.


Also, if you haven't guessed, I'm a Kentucky fan. One thing I ask is to NOT pay attention to Rupp Rafter's message board. Good message boards, like this one, only exist because of good moderators. Rupp Rafters is too big for the moderators to keep up with... therefore it's useless. The better UK posters have abandoned that site a long time ago.

Welcome to the board, and look forward to hearing from you. It's true that Kentucky fans are often stereo-typed and that's not really fair.

However, in answer to your inquiry about squeezing under the scholarship limit by over-recruiting and then losing a few by attrition or by "persuasion"...no, I don't like that process. It is IMO unethical. Duke under Coach K does not do it.

You may indicate that Duke is not a good example...getting the cream of the student/athlete crop, but I'm hard pressed to think of any other basketball program in recent years which has approached the end of the school year with possibly 3 "extra" players on scholarship (and still looking for another recruit.)

[FireOgilvie]

Somebody has no clue what top recruits think anymore.

What lumbering C's are at Kentucky?
Cousins is an athletic specimen.

I hope you're being sarcastic... those are all valid issues. If you disagree, feel free to actually add something to the board and explain the issues that are important to recruits.

Also, DeMarcus Cousins is athletic, but he doesn't run the floor like the Plumlees, Ryan Kelly, Singler, or Lance Thomas. Orton certainly doesn't either. Also, like I said, Cousins and Orton constantly would need to the ball fed to them in the post. Duke's players don't have the same back-to-the-basket game.

[Franzez]

I hope you're being sarcastic... those are all valid issues. If you disagree, feel free to actually add something to the board and explain the issues that are important to recruits.

I'm sorry but thats fine and dandy for recruits but the most important issues facing recruits like John Wall with an eye already towards the NBA is playing time,the system & exposure along with other little perks such as paid internships and/or money from boosters.Tradition,Conference,etc among other things rarely matter with a 1 & Done recruit.

Wall is a Worldwide Wes player and thats why hes been connected to Caliparri for so long, Wes has been basically delivering recruits to Caliparri and has done so for about 6 or 7 years now.

Also, DeMarcus Cousins is athletic, but he doesn't run the floor like the Plumlees, Ryan Kelly, Singler, or Lance Thomas. Orton certainly doesn't either. Also, like I said, Cousins and Orton constantly would need to the ball fed to them in the post. Duke's players don't have the same back-to-the-basket game.

In the DDM the PG rarely has to feed players in the post, the big men usually clear the lane for the PG to attack the basket and collapse in for putbacks and offensive rebounds.Cousins knows his role will be that of an Alley Oop recipient and to go up for putbacks or offensive rebounds, the offense isnt intended for big men to post up and score.

[Franzez]

Calipari will earn some of his big salary if he can get Cousins to:

get in great shape
play defense consistently
play hard consistently

I'd be surprised if Cousins has the type impact as a freshman that Patrick Patterson had...or that Mason Plumlee will have, just for the sake of discussion

Cousins definetly needs to get in better shape but that issue relates to conditioning.

I think everything else will be fine due to his role on the team, if you are expecting or projecting him to score more than about 11 PPG this season you probably dont understand his intended role in the DDM.

[FireOgilvie]

I'm sorry but thats fine and dandy for recruits but the most important issues facing recruits like John Wall with an eye already towards the NBA is playing time,the system & exposure along with other little perks such as paid internships and/or money from boosters.Tradition,Conference,etc among other things rarely matter with a 1 & Done recruit.

Wall is a Worldwide Wes player and thats why hes been connected to Caliparri for so long, Wes has been basically delivering recruits to Caliparri and has done so for about 6 or 7 years now.



In the DDM the PG rarely has to feed players in the post, the big men usually clear the lane for the PG to attack the basket and collapse in for putbacks and offensive rebounds.Cousins knows his role will be that of an Alley Oop recipient and to go up for putbacks or offensive rebounds, the offense isnt intended for big men to post up and score.

I mentioned playing time under "minutes." I mentioned exposure. Seriously, there's no program that gets more national exposure than Duke. Kentucky is not even close. It's also been discussed multiple times that both Duke's system and Kentucky's system would utilize Wall in an important way, so I didn't put it as a "pro." Also, I think you're out of line by assuming that "money from boosters" and paid internships (which has no effect on a 1 and done player) are important to John Wall. Oh, and Wall said when asked about Miami that one of the good things about it was "it's in the ACC." So clearly that's important.

[NYDukie]

Let me preface this by saying that I respect that everyone is trying to be as objective as possible (which is why I really like this board). However, I think we might be going a little too far in the other direction here. For example, the only actual pros for UK over Duke on that list were 1) Easier classes, 2) Possibly more NBA prospects, and 3) having the coach he originally wanted to play for, and I would argue that only that last point is very important.

My original point was that, on paper, the situation at Duke appears to be far superior. For the sake of arguement, let's assume that coaching/tradition is a wash, although Cal's pedigree is nowhere close to K's. So you've got School A and School B, very similar, with 3 major differences:

1. School A is 20 miles from his mother, school B is 500
2. School A returns a veteran, experienced team with a better chance at a NC than School B (that's a quote from Clifton on Monday, not my glasses talking...). School B is a program in transition, with Wall arriving amid a clusterpluck of freshman and stars looking to boost their NBA prospects with a few remaing role players that didn't transfer after the coaching change.
3. School A has 3 scholarship guards and 0 PGs on the roster. School B just offered and landed the other top-5 unsigned PG in your class, who was no doubt promised PT.

There's also the fact that most of School A's big men are fast, mobile big men (Plumlee 1 & 2, Thomas, Singler) rather than big, back-to-the-basket players (Orton, Patterson, Cousins), plus the fact that being at School A would improve Wall's slightly shady perceived image, give him more TV exposure, etc, but that gets into more debatable points.

My point with all of this is not at all that there is something wrong with Mr. Wall for not immediately choosing Duke, but that certain subjective factors must be much more important to John than we realize... otherwise "School A" clearly looks like the better option. Now hopefully he continues to warm to the subjective positives of Duke...

It was never my intention to call anyone out. I would only call someone out if they replied to a thought of mine with disrespect or total disregard to the topic at hand. I've been a reader of the board for a couple of years now and have posted more consistently the past couple of months and appreciate the views of most. There are a few who look to shake things up just to start controversy or the like who I can see myself getting into it with if my NYC side comes out...LOL..but you are not one of them at all. I definately appreciate your opininion, whether I agree or not. In this case, there are points I agree with and a few I don't. What I think we both agree on in summary is the fact that both programs offer many pros to Wall, hence, the long decision making process here and the tension that this recruitment has brought to the fan base. When will it all end...LOLLLLL

[mgtr]

I thought that John Wall was a guy who lived in a velly in Colorado and espoused free markets ...., or was that another John?

[speedevil2001]

...at some point Wall has to just want it to be over right? Even the most self-absorbed, most famous of celebrities get sick of it eventually. I mean, he gets it ALL DAY...EVERYDAY. I believe we will know by May 20th.

he will announce after the may 20 deadline. He's John Wall, he can do that. As long as he picks duke, im going to root for him.

[Duke #33]

he will announce after the may 20 deadline. He's John Wall, he can do that. As long as he picks duke, im going to root for him.

If he can choose after the deadline, what is the point of the deadline?

[TemporaryInsanity]

Welcome to the board, and look forward to hearing from you. It's true that Kentucky fans are often stereo-typed and that's not really fair.

However, in answer to your inquiry about squeezing under the scholarship limit by over-recruiting and then losing a few by attrition or by "persuasion"...no, I don't like that process. It is IMO unethical. Duke under Coach K does not do it.

You may indicate that Duke is not a good example...getting the cream of the student/athlete crop, but I'm hard pressed to think of any other basketball program in recent years which has approached the end of the school year with possibly 3 "extra" players on scholarship (and still looking for another recruit.)

Those are valid points. I'm not a fan of it either, especially if you're running off kids.

I have a buddy that is close to the program (in a media way) There were a few kids that made up their mind to transfer if Gillespie stayed. 1 has let his grades slip, and the other exerted minimal effort in Calipari's practices (because he has already decided to transfer).

UK staff had the roster situation figured out a long time ago. Then... Patterson decided to stay. That was not expected.

So, we are down to 1 now. That's if Meeks stays, Wall commits ( and qualifies ) ... and Bledsoe qualifies. Meeks staying is probably the strongest of the three.

One thing I want to bring up is over-recruiting... I'm not an advocate, but on the other side with early NBA defections and players testing the waters...it's putting programs in tough situations. Especially elite programs that have tons of pressure to win. The formala to win a National Championship is changing... it used to be a Jr, Sr team... then Syracuse won and everyone thought they needed a One and Done player.. then Florida gets an extra national championship because their players decided to stay... then UNC and Kansas win one apiece by having multiple late first to second round NBA talent. UNC and Kansas got lucky that their players were almost good enough to be first round locks... but they weren't... so they stayed and dominated.

Now I'm ranting... but I don't think the age limit for the NBA draft is the answer. With the NBA draft getting watered down and basically becoming guesswork with terms like potential and upside, something needs to change. This year's draft is a perfect example, projected #4 pick Jordan Hill... #6 Demar Derozan... if I was a GM and had to guarantee these players 10 mill over the next 3 years I would be UPSET. They didn't even dominate on the college level.

I know the players association would never go for this.. but the NBA rookie salary structure should change. I think the money should fall dramatically after the top 3 picks. Then, fall again after the 11th pick. Something needs to be done to improve the draft... and keep kids in school to work on their game and get an education. The only thing that motivates the kids is $$$... and it's tough to blame them.

That comes from the idea that more kids are leaving early since they instituted the rookie salary structure... it used to be like the NFL where the top picks got paid like all-stars... so it really paid to stay in school and work your way to a top pick... now, it's not a huge difference between the #6 and #16... so why not go?

[hedgehog]

If he can choose after the deadline, what is the point of the deadline?

A normal recruit may wish to sign a letter of intent to lock in his scholarship offer. While it has been pointed out that scholarship offers can be rescinded, any program is going to lose a lot of face by rescinding an offer to a recruit who has signed a LOI. There may be other rules surrounding LOIs of which I am not aware. I believe the thinking for John Wall is that school will still offer him a scholly even if he never signs a LOI.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I know the players association would never go for this.. but the NBA rookie salary structure should change. I think the money should fall dramatically after the top 3 picks. Then, fall again after the 11th pick. Something needs to be done to improve the draft... and keep kids in school to work on their game and get an education. The only thing that motivates the kids is $$$... and it's tough to blame them.

That comes from the idea that more kids are leaving early since they instituted the rookie salary structure... it used to be like the NFL where the top picks got paid like all-stars... so it really paid to stay in school and work your way to a top pick... now, it's not a huge difference between the #6 and #16... so why not go?

On the face, your idea for the salary structure looks good and makes sense, and in a year like this year it would be beneficial to both the NBA and NCAA. But in a strong year, there will be some players who are incredibly talented and will be starting for their teams that go in as 5 through 15, and will get shafted. It's a dilemma that I see no real solution for.
You've only posted twice, but I've enjoyed reading both. It's nice to see perspectives from the outside that are well thought out.

[verga]

Miami has had one very good pro, even if it were 40 years ago, Rick Barry. It really has nothing to do with the current situation but he was a great pro and he played at Miami.

[SupaDave]

Those are valid points. I'm not a fan of it either, especially if you're running off kids.

I have a buddy that is close to the program (in a media way) There were a few kids that made up their mind to transfer if Gillespie stayed. 1 has let his grades slip, and the other exerted minimal effort in Calipari's practices (because he has already decided to transfer).

UK staff had the roster situation figured out a long time ago. Then... Patterson decided to stay. That was not expected.

So, we are down to 1 now. That's if Meeks stays, Wall commits ( and qualifies ) ... and Bledsoe qualifies. Meeks staying is probably the strongest of the three.

One thing I want to bring up is over-recruiting... I'm not an advocate, but on the other side with early NBA defections and players testing the waters...it's putting programs in tough situations. Especially elite programs that have tons of pressure to win. The formala to win a National Championship is changing... it used to be a Jr, Sr team... then Syracuse won and everyone thought they needed a One and Done player.. then Florida gets an extra national championship because their players decided to stay... then UNC and Kansas win one apiece by having multiple late first to second round NBA talent. UNC and Kansas got lucky that their players were almost good enough to be first round locks... but they weren't... so they stayed and dominated.

Now I'm ranting... but I don't think the age limit for the NBA draft is the answer. With the NBA draft getting watered down and basically becoming guesswork with terms like potential and upside, something needs to change. This year's draft is a perfect example, projected #4 pick Jordan Hill... #6 Demar Derozan... if I was a GM and had to guarantee these players 10 mill over the next 3 years I would be UPSET. They didn't even dominate on the college level.

I know the players association would never go for this.. but the NBA rookie salary structure should change. I think the money should fall dramatically after the top 3 picks. Then, fall again after the 11th pick. Something needs to be done to improve the draft... and keep kids in school to work on their game and get an education. The only thing that motivates the kids is $$$... and it's tough to blame them.

That comes from the idea that more kids are leaving early since they instituted the rookie salary structure... it used to be like the NFL where the top picks got paid like all-stars... so it really paid to stay in school and work your way to a top pick... now, it's not a huge difference between the #6 and #16... so why not go?

This is a great post. I remember well how important it was to be junior or senior with a polished game in the draft. That was before teams were willing to let you sit on the bench.

[SupaDave]

...at some point Wall has to just want it to be over right? Even the most self-absorbed, most famous of celebrities get sick of it eventually. I mean, he gets it ALL DAY...EVERYDAY. I believe we will know by May 20th.

He is NOT selling us concert tickets. Quite frankly, I'm sure you give it more thought daily than he does. Give that stuff a rest PLEASE. The kid has a big decision. He's talking to coaches, assistants, reporters, school friends, and oh yeah, probably a doctor every so often so I'm sure he's not looking to milk the situation.

The kid doesn't have a documentary coming (ala Lance Stephenson). He still has the whole test scores thing going on. And Jodie Meeks hasn't figured out what he's gonna do. Besides, JW also has a citation to get rid of.

Knowing what I know now? I'd be at Miami trying my best to flunk out but I was no John Wall. BUT basketball IS business to John Wall - just as it is business to Duke (as evidenced by the suits in Boyton's home visit). I think the kid gets that.

But seriously, his decision right now is like having to pick who to marry between Halle Berry, Jessica Alba, and Scarlett Johansson. Wouldn't you want to spend just a little more time with all of them before you make a decison?

[MonitorMom]

SAT score reporting begins May 21 online. I dont expect to see a decision before later in that week. Having worked to clear high school athletes with the NCAA Clearinghouse (not for Duke) I can share that the organization does not have the sense of urgency we all have-no matter who the recruit is- a very complex process administered by some minimum wage employees who may have no interest in basketball in particular... or athletes in general. Just an opinion.