John Wall Recruitment

[NYDukie]

Raleigh - Lexington = 475 miles

Raleigh - Memphis = 752 miles

Raleigh - Coral Gables = 806 miles

Raleigh - Duke = 25 miles

Ane that makes it 2,300 posts in this thread!

Thanks for the info. Just makes matters a bit more confusing as why if it seemed Memphis was the Wall lean w/ Calipari there, how come a UK lean has been dragged out. I know the quick answers will be that Duke came hard after him and has many things to offers, but it just makes this recruitment just that more confusing and a "must read" event...LOL

[UrinalCake]

7. And to me most importantly, why as a one and done player would he want to weigh himself down with academic responsibilities?

I agree; at UK or Miami he could take just six credit hours in the fall to maintain eligibility, then not take any classes in the spring. At Duke he technically could still do this, but I doubt the program would allow him to. Not trying to discount his academic integrity or anything, but I think this has to be a strong factor in his decision.

Regarding UK's title chances, they will have a ton of talent but also will be adapting to a new coach, integrating several blue-chip freshmen, and probably learning an entirely new offensive system. Also they will be jettisoning between two and four current scholarship players. Duke will have a more stable, veteran lineup.

[Kedsy]

I don't know if I can name a single pro for Miami outside of "beach/weather." There certainly aren't any pros when it comes to basketball (over Duke and UK), unless "minimal pressure to win" or "general apathy from fanbase" are important.

Duke pros:

1. Coach K - between the record, 3 national championships, and Olympic experience coaching NBA All-Stars to a gold medal, this is a pretty big one. Calipari is not Coach K. He has zero national championships. Haith is in the bottom half of ACC coaches, in my opinion. I think it would be nice for John Wall to be able to say, "I played for one of the greatest college coaches of all-time."
2. Minutes - Duke has zero true point guards and 3 guards on the team total. This is not even close to the case at UK, especially with top 5 PG Eric Bledsoe. Even Miami has more depth than Duke at guard.
3. ESPN/National TV every single game. UK is not on national TV as much as Duke. Miami is not even close. National exposure is huge.
4. Reputation - Duke has a reputation for putting out quality individuals that play great team basketball and don't get in trouble off the court.
5. Academics - This might not be important for John Wall (1 year and gone), but Duke is a top 10 school.
6. Style of play - Every Duke player except Zoubek is perfect for a fast-break running offense. Kentucky has multiple lumbering centers that will have to have to be constantly fed in the post.
7. Proximity to home - He has said this is important to him.
8. Chance at a national championship - Duke would have a very good shot at a national title. The same can be said for UK. Miami might have a shot at 3rd in the ACC.
9. Conference - Both Duke and Miami are in the ACC, the best basketball conference in the country (along with the Big East). Basketball is the 2nd most important sport in the SEC.


I'm sure there are multiple others that I am missing. UK has some pros as well, but I don't think the list is comparable to Duke's.

Look, I hope he comes to Duke, and unlike others I don't think anyone outside his inner circle has any feel for where he's leaning or what he's thinking.

That said, lists like the above are factors that you consider important and I can easily see a 19-year old kid thinking quite differently. Considering he was once publicly leaning toward Memphis, it seems clear that none of the above are critical factors, except maybe #2 (but don't kid yourself, he'll get all the minutes he wants wherever he goes -- he doesn't have to worry about Eric Bledsoe; Eric Bledsoe has to worry about him).

I'm not trying to argue that your points aren't valid. On the contrary, if I were a highly recruited point guard I would agree with most of them. But to say the list of pros and cons favors Duke so much it would be "borderline ridiculous" to pick anybody else is, frankly, borderline ridiculous (and I realize it wasn't FireOgilvie who originally said this). I think if you look at it objectively, you'd say that Duke and Kentucky are roughly equal in desirability, with Duke's biggest asset being proximity to his mother, and Kentucky's biggest asset the feeling of being the cool, hip, young guns with Wall and Cousins and the other newcomers.

[gumbomoop]

One last point, putting our disdain for UK aside, to think a lineup of Wall, Meeks (if he comes back or not), PP, Orton and Cousins with some good players off the bench won't be a national factor is being ignorant on our part. We criticize others for their dislike of Duke and not being objective in analyzing the Duke teams and if we wish not to be "stereotyped" as "we(fans) are better than everyone else" that many Duke fans are, we should be a bit more objective in our opinions of other teams. Now if you truly feel that way about UK's team next year, then fine, but my gut tells me that many just don't like UK and as result, feel they will not be good no matter who they have next year.

I strongly agree with this, and would go even much further: with Wall and Meeks, UK will be preseason #2. With Wall, but w/o Meeks, they'll be top 5.

[Kedsy]

I don't know if I can name a single pro for Miami outside of "beach/weather." There certainly aren't any pros when it comes to basketball (over Duke and UK), unless "minimal pressure to win" or "general apathy from fanbase" are important.

The allure of Miami (besides the weather and the women) might be the idea of being the program savior. The guy who puts the school on the map.

He'd get that at Baylor and probably NC State, too, but nobody's been talking about those schools lately.

I think we tend to minimize positives like the above or like the attraction of being part of the latest "best recruiting class of all time" (which he could get at Kentucky) because they don't apply to Duke. But they're still powerful to the neutral observer.

[JasonEvans]

I agree; at UK or Miami he could take just six credit hours in the fall to maintain eligibility, then not take any classes in the spring. At Duke he technically could still do this, but I doubt the program would allow him to. Not trying to discount his academic integrity or anything, but I think this has to be a strong factor in his decision.

It is worth noting that if John Wall did this there could be repercussions down the line for Kentucky as the NCAA would deem that Wall was not making academic progress and it could cost Kentucky scholarships in the future -- similar to what happened to Ga Tech this year.

That said, if taking an easy academic load and just staying eligible is something Wall is interested in, then Kentucky will make that much easier for him than Duke or Miami (which I believe is actually a fairly decent school).

--Jason "I bet the Miami fans are gaga over the fact that they are in the final 3" Evans

[Kedsy]

--Jason "I bet the Miami fans are gaga over the fact that they are in the final 3" Evans

Especially since Zagoria keeps telling them they're in the final 2...

[Wander]

--Jason "I bet the Miami fans are gaga over the fact that they are in the final 3" Evans

Yup, I've talked to both of them, and they're pretty happy.

[NYDukie]

I agree; at UK or Miami he could take just six credit hours in the fall to maintain eligibility, then not take any classes in the spring. At Duke he technically could still do this, but I doubt the program would allow him to. Not trying to discount his academic integrity or anything, but I think this has to be a strong factor in his decision.

Regarding UK's title chances, they will have a ton of talent but also will be adapting to a new coach, integrating several blue-chip freshmen, and probably learning an entirely new offensive system. Also they will be jettisoning between two and four current scholarship players. Duke will have a more stable, veteran lineup.

As one poster said a few down, Miami is underrated academically as does have one of the better universities. I think the South Beach idea dumbs them down a bit unfairly.

I understandthat Duke will have the more stable team but even given many of the variables UK faces, they have the potential to be real good. This was a team that went 22-14 and lets say that the addition of Cal, and potentiallyWall and Co. are worth a improvement of 5-7 games, which I believe is a fair assessment, that would put them in the range of 24-8 entering the tourney which gets thems a #3 or #4 seed. I think they will be better but I think the above is reasonable. Wall makes a huge impact wherever he lands.

[JasonEvans]

Here is an article quoting Rivals.com recruiting analyst Jerry Meyer saying Wall likely will wait until after the May 20th "deadline" to announce his decision.

Sweet!! At least another week of this stuff. Lets see if we can get to 3000 posts in this thread before Wall names a school!! We can do it!!

-Jason "this has the Patrick Patterson recruiting wait of 2007 beat by a mile!!" Evans

[moonpie23]

i am now facing reality. I'm revising my over/under for this thread to

5000/50000 or 12 months whichever comes first..


arrrgghhh...

[Devil07]

Here is an article quoting Rivals.com recruiting analyst Jerry Meyer saying Wall likely will wait until after the May 20th "deadline" to announce his decision.

Not all that surprising, especially since he can't get his SAT scores until May 21st. If he really does need those scores to qualify then there's really no way he can make a decision without knowing what options he actually has available to him. Let's just hope he does well...

[yancem]

Does anyone know what the deadline is for colleges making the decision to renew scholarships? It seems to me that is scholarships are considered 1 year renewable agreements, then there must be a time frame in which the schools have to decide to renew or not renew the scholarship. Otherwise a kid could show up for school in the fall only to find out that the college had taken away his scholarship.

I ask because I would think that the deadline would be coming up soon which could force Kentucky to make decisions with regard to their scholarship situation possibly before Wall chooses a school.

[SilkyJ]

Yup, I've talked to both of them, and they're pretty happy.

HAHA. Can't believe no one else picked up on this. POTD! (maybe post of the thread?!)

Not all that surprising, especially since he can't get his SAT scores until May 21st. If he really does need those scores to qualify then there's really no way he can make a decision without knowing what options he actually has available to him. Let's just hope he does well...

A point I made to my father this morning when we were discussing this saga. What won't surprise me, is if A) his short list changes from UK/Duke/UM over the next 2 weeks and B) in the end he doesn't go to any of the 3 schools. There is much more to come mefears.

[Greg_Newton]

Borderline ridiculous? Only if you're wearing Duke Blue colored glasses (although it'd be really hard to tell those apart from Ky Blue colored glasses, if you were just looking at them, wouldn't it?). Without knowing the kid, I don't know how you could make such a sweeping statement.

...But to say the list of pros and cons favors Duke so much it would be "borderline ridiculous" to pick anybody else is, frankly, borderline ridiculous (and I realize it wasn't FireOgilvie who originally said this). I think if you look at it objectively, you'd say that Duke and Kentucky are roughly equal in desirability, with Duke's biggest asset being proximity to his mother, and Kentucky's biggest asset the feeling of being the cool, hip, young guns with Wall and Cousins and the other newcomers.

I think you're reading too much into my "borderline ridiculous" statement... it was intended to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, and I never meant to imply that Wall would be "ridiculous" were he to choose somewhere else. My point was that if you were to compare the tangible pros and cons of the situations Duke and at UK, as an objective outside observer, Duke would clearly come out better. See below for my reasoning.

However, Duke does not appear to be the clear leader to Wall, which led me to believe the certain factors must be much more important in the decision than what we are assuming... maybe it's very important to Wall to play with young, athletic players, maybe he's developed a very strong bond with Cal that he hasn't with K, maybe the "fun"/co-ed aspect of school is more important to him than most of us assume (i.e. South Beach), who knows. It was not my intention to imply that any of those were ridiculous factors, just making an observation.

As for the pros and cons of Duke verse UK, I will say that I personally believe that Duke offers more. However, if I am in Wall's shoes and not blinded by my Duke sunglasses, UK does offer many pros for a "one and done" prospect.

1...

Let me preface this by saying that I respect that everyone is trying to be as objective as possible (which is why I really like this board). However, I think we might be going a little too far in the other direction here. For example, the only actual pros for UK over Duke on that list were 1) Easier classes, 2) Possibly more NBA prospects, and 3) having the coach he originally wanted to play for, and I would argue that only that last point is very important.

My original point was that, on paper, the situation at Duke appears to be far superior. For the sake of arguement, let's assume that coaching/tradition is a wash, although Cal's pedigree is nowhere close to K's. So you've got School A and School B, very similar, with 3 major differences:

1. School A is 20 miles from his mother, school B is 500
2. School A returns a veteran, experienced team with a better chance at a NC than School B (that's a quote from Clifton on Monday, not my glasses talking...). School B is a program in transition, with Wall arriving amid a clusterpluck of freshman and stars looking to boost their NBA prospects with a few remaing role players that didn't transfer after the coaching change.
3. School A has 3 scholarship guards and 0 PGs on the roster. School B just offered and landed the other top-5 unsigned PG in your class, who was no doubt promised PT.

There's also the fact that most of School A's big men are fast, mobile big men (Plumlee 1 & 2, Thomas, Singler) rather than big, back-to-the-basket players (Orton, Patterson, Cousins), plus the fact that being at School A would improve Wall's slightly shady perceived image, give him more TV exposure, etc, but that gets into more debatable points.

My point with all of this is not at all that there is something wrong with Mr. Wall for not immediately choosing Duke, but that certain subjective factors must be much more important to John than we realize... otherwise "School A" clearly looks like the better option. Now hopefully he continues to warm to the subjective positives of Duke...

[SupaDave]

Does anyone know what the deadline is for colleges making the decision to renew scholarships? It seems to me that is scholarships are considered 1 year renewable agreements, then there must be a time frame in which the schools have to decide to renew or not renew the scholarship. Otherwise a kid could show up for school in the fall only to find out that the college had taken away his scholarship.

I ask because I would think that the deadline would be coming up soon which could force Kentucky to make decisions with regard to their scholarship situation possibly before Wall chooses a school.

Good question. I would assume that financial aid doesn't kick in until the school year. However that # of scholarships is very important b/c it lets you know who may have to turn into a practice player...

[grad_devil]

Does anyone know what the deadline is for colleges making the decision to renew scholarships?

Good question. I would assume that financial aid doesn't kick in until the school year. However that # of scholarships is very important b/c it lets you know who may have to turn into a practice player...

Well, since I'm in Atlanta at the NCAA Regional Rules Seminar, let me help you out

From Bylaw 15.3.5.1:

15.3.5.1 Institutional Obligation.The renewal of institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability shall be made before July 1 prior to the academic year in which it is to be effective. ...

This would mean that if UK were to not renew scholarships to certain players, they'd have to notify them by July 1. Of course, if you look at bylaw 15.3.5.2:

15.5.3.2 Reconsideration of Nonrenewal.It is permissible for an institution that has notified a student-athlete that he or she will not be provided institutional financial aid for the next academic year subsequently to award financial aid to that student-athlete

They can turn around and re-award the scholarship, if Wall were to wait past July 1st and then choose a different school.

Surely this trainwreck won't proceed to that point!

--grad_devil

[MulletMan]

They can turn around and re-award the scholarship, if Wall were to wait past July 1st and then choose a different school.

Surely this trainwreck won't proceed to that point!

--grad_devil

Won't it? I mean really, at this point who's to say that this gets resolved before July?

[yancem]

Well, since I'm in Atlanta at the NCAA Regional Rules Seminar, let me help you out

From Bylaw 15.3.5.1:


This would mean that if UK were to not renew scholarships to certain players, they'd have to notify them by July 1. Of course, if you look at bylaw 15.3.5.2:


They can turn around and re-award the scholarship, if Wall were to wait past July 1st and then choose a different school.

Surely this trainwreck won't proceed to that point!

--grad_devil

Thanks for the information. I can't believe that the deadline is so late. Can you imagine finding out on June 30th that your scholarship won;t be renewed and trying to scramble to cover tuition costs or find another school that can offer you a scholarship with only 2 months notice before school starts? I really figured the deadline would be closer to the end of the school year.

I certainly hope that Wall makes a decision before July. I would think that it would be in his best interest to make a decision by June so that he can enroll in summer school to lesson his course load during basketball season and maximize his workout time with his new teammates.

[BlueintheFace]

...at some point Wall has to just want it to be over right? Even the most self-absorbed, most famous of celebrities get sick of it eventually. I mean, he gets it ALL DAY...EVERYDAY. I believe we will know by May 20th.