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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    I find it distasteful but certainly not illegal. I don't see how the NCAA could legislate against this.

    One thing does intrigue me about this whole thing. Let's assume Wall goes NBA after one season. Let's assume--for the sake of argument only--that Clifton is over his head and is dismissed after that one season. Does "got fired after one year" look that great on your resume? Isn't there a risk for him? Or is getting your foot in the door so significant that one quit their job, move half way across the country, and subject themselves to this kind of negative scrutiny on a national level?

    I don't really know the answer to this question. But I agree coach/player package deals can be credible.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I find it distasteful but certainly not illegal. I don't see how the NCAA could legislate against this.

    One thing does intrigue me about this whole thing. Let's assume Wall goes NBA after one season. Let's assume--for the sake of argument only--that Clifton is over his head and is dismissed after that one season. Does "got fired after one year" look that great on your resume? Isn't there a risk for him? Or is getting your foot in the door so significant that one quit their job, move half way across the country, and subject themselves to this kind of negative scrutiny on a national level?

    I don't really know the answer to this question. But I agree coach/player package deals can be credible.
    What happened to Ed Manning at Kansas? I do not recall his long term career status.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Larry Brown left Kansas after the 1988 season for the NBA and took Ed Manning with him.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Question Moral hazard

    Lets see.... HS players are compelled by the NBA to go to college (or somewhere) for at least one year. Moreover, some of the super talents need and take the time physical development and further refinement. Yet these are multi-million dollar talents. And the colleges bid for their services by offering educational incentives and good coaching and lots of publicity. These things, rather than competitive pay. Moreover, the real talents are worth millions to the successful recruiting insititution and to the recruiting coaches (who are allowed to keep their jobs if successful and may even get more money... or a better job). This is a huge "moral hazard" for the whole recruiting process.

    Small wonder that there is money changing hands behind the scenes to influence the outcome. Or, in the Baylor-John wall, case the money is changing hands in public view (through hiring his travel coach), and no one can do anything about it.

    I am surprised there isn't more of this. Maybe there is, and it is hidden from view.

    I don't have a solution. Paying the kids a few hundred bucks a month for living expenses, etc. would eliminate the petty graft, and I am all for doing so. But it wouldn't change the John Wall/OJ Mayo type problem. Anyhow, I wouldn't want the job as director of enforcement for the NCAA (unless I had subpoena power ... and a bodyguard).

    sagegrouse

    'The real problem the NCAA can fix is its ridiculous limits on off-season contacts between the coaches and the players. This is truly asinine. These are gonna be professional athletes to age 30, and if the U. is successful, "well-educated" professional athletes. Yet the coaches are allowed to work with the athletes only six months a year in basketball. (The off-season workouts are personal drills with the coaches and very limited in time and activity.) Isn't this like telling Juilliard that you can provide instruction and classes for your budding virtuosi only a couple of hours a week uness piano or violin is in season?'

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville

    This has been going on forever.

    So what's the big surprise? Do the names Press and Pete Maravich ring a bell? Jim certainly remembers that one, don't you Jim?

    ricks

  6. #26

    John Wall Recruitment

    Since Kenny Boynton commited to Florida last night there has been word spreading around that Duke is now interested in John Wall out of Word of God in Raliegh. I think Duke would that almost have a miracle to land Wall but Kelly picked Duke and they barely recruited him until a month and a half until he signed with Duke. Kelly also plays with Wall on his AAU team. This could get interesting with Duke holding that extra scholarship for 2009 and give it to Wall. Also I think that Brandon Knight is not interested in Duke anymore. Hopefully if Duke could land Wall they would have 3 in state recruits with Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly.
    GO DUKE

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by Bsim412 View Post
    Also I think that Brandon Knight is not interested in Duke anymore. Hopefully if Duke could land Wall they would have 3 in state recruits with Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly.
    GO DUKE
    Where did you get this info on Knight?

  8. #28
    According to Jerry Meyer of Rivals.com, Duke has contacted Wall and begun the recruiting process.

    http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.c...asp?CID=870447

  9. #29

    One and Done???

    What are your thoughts on Wall being another one and done?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte
    Wall has openly said that he hopes to be a one and done, so personally I'd rather have someone whose willing to stick around and do what is best for the team, as opposed to showcasing one's skills...although one and dones have helped teams make great runs in the recent past.

    Also, from what I read, it seems that Duke has not recruited him hard at all...just general mailings, not even from a specific coach. Wall likes to play an up tempo style which would seem to fit Duke, but again he has said he doesn't know much about Duke's style, which I thought interesting. To me, it seems like he wants to be recruited by Duke but we havn't yet shown the interest...here's to hoping that will change in the near future.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by SushiChef View Post
    What are your thoughts on Wall being another one and done?
    First of all, I have my doubts about this, both whether Duke will really press hard on Wall and whether Wall will take it particularly seriously. I don't know anything, of course, but it feels like an odd match.

    That said, there is some synergy in recruiting a one-and-done point guard for next year, since we have a point guard graduating after this year and have a good one arriving in 2010. So if Nolan is comfortable playing more of a combo guard, as well as sort of a tutor to a series (well, two at least) of talented but inexperienced lead guards, it could work out very well.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    I am skeptical of reports that say we are really "recruiting" him. My suspicion is that K is thinking the following.

    1) He is close by

    2) We lose Greg after this year and don't have another point coming in till 2010 so we can bridge the gap with a one-and-done impact guard (see-Kenny Boynton)

    3) He is the #1 PG in the class, but he appears to have lots of baggage (attitude, handlers, etc..)

    4) We should at least jump in here to see A) how can he explain these concerns I have, B) if he is even interested.

    ...I have no information, but my GUESS is that these are the things that are going on when people say that Duke is trying to jump in to the recruitment.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA
    Let the coaching staff determine that. If they are recruiting him as a Duke alum and lifetime fan I am ok with Wall's recruitment.

  14. #34
    I don't have a problem with this either, he's a world class talent, if we could land him, we would surely be equiped to make a big run next year. I agree that he seems to have some attitude problems, but its nothing Coach K couldn't handle. They say he is as good as Rose but with a better jumpshot. I've seen some videos of him and he's crazy fast. Anyways, i think that getting Wall would result in a lot more positives than negatives for the program.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Let's go over some general stuff first.

    There seems to be a fair amount of cirumstantial evidence that John Wall, at present, is inclined to spend one year in college before leaving for the NBA.

    Mike Krzyzewski discussed his thoughts on recruiting potential one-and-dones on several occasions earlier this year.

    He indicated that he is open to recruiting players from that pool if those players are willing to "unpack their bags."

    What does that mean? A couple of things.

    First, he wants players who will be fully invested in Duke for as long as they are at Duke. Take academics seriously. Be a part of the team. Be a part of the community. Be here.

    Second. Put the NBA on the back-burner until the end of the year. The NBA is not going anywhere and they don't hold the draft in February. The end of the season is the proper time to gather information on one's NBA status and the time to make any decision based on that information.

    Now Wall goes to a high school that doesn't exactly turn out a lot of Duke-caliber students. That doesn't preclude the possibility that Wall is a Duke-caliber student. The Duke staff takes this stuff seriously and this will be the first hoop to be jumped through.

    Let's assume that Wall passes that test. The next part will be the unpacking-the-bags-part. This works both ways. Duke would have to be convinced that Wall would do the things they want and Wall would have to be convinced that going to Duke is in his best interests.

    This assumes, of course, that the mutual interest is there. No one doubts that Wall is a superb basketball player. Are he and Duke a good fit? TBD.

    All of this stuff, btw, applies to a lot of other top-five prepsters.

    A couple of additional things. There is some indication that Wall is not interested in making a decision until spring. So this wouldn't have to be a quickie courtship. Plenty of time for the principals to get to know each other and evaluate each other.

    Finally, Wall and Kelly have been AAU teammates and by all indications, have a high regard for each other. At the very least, an additional source of information for both sides. Maybe more, maybe not.

    I've been skeptical of any serious Duke-Wall interest for some time but I may well have been wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. So, I'll wait and see what, if anything develops. Along with lots of other people.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    considering we got to the national championship game with our last two one and done's (Maggette,Deng) I'm find with it. If Gerald and Kyler come back and we can get Wall we will be ready for another banner in Cameron.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Technically Duke didn't get to the title game with Deng.

    The big difference between Maggette and Deng and Wall is that neither of the first two was viewed as likely to go to the NBA after one year. And that's a considerable understatement.

  18. #38
    Do we really have a good chance at Wall or is this just hope?

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by RainingThrees View Post
    Do we really have a good chance at Wall or is this just hope?
    From what I read, Baylor is still the heavy favorite. But beyond that I doubt anybody really knows. My guess is Duke's a longshot.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Inman, SC & Melbourne Beach, FL
    Do we really want him, or is this just grasping at straws? I'm not persuaded that we need to get an 09 point guard.

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