Plumlee Playing Time

[Kedsy]

This year, Duke doesn't have nearly as much of a problem getting its best players on the court together.

Unless Nolan Smith and/or Elliot Williams step up to the point where they can't be relegated to backup status.

[Jumbo]

Since regular practices have not started yet, and the three freshman are still awaiting their first full practice, aren't we being a little premature in forecasting minutes and rotation? Or at least not certain yet?

What are such judgments based on? Pick-up games, heresay, and summer league games? Didn't we already hear that such things are hugely unreliable?

Why do you think the team hasn't been practicing? Nice attempt at sarcasm, though.

[dkbaseball]

Why do you think the team hasn't been practicing? Nice attempt at sarcasm, though.

Uh, because the NCAA doesn't permit it? I missed the sarcasm completely. Roy, we may in fact be hopelessly naive outsiders.

[BlueintheFace]

Oh boy Jumbo... I really hope we aren't holding regular practices. Let's just keep it to the NCAA restricted two hours per week. Since you are close to the program can you please tell Coach K to stop violating NCAA rules (now THAT is sarcasm).

[jimsumner]

"Frankly, I think the reports you're getting are the sound of the established pecking order circling the wagons against the possibility that somebody who wasn't supposed to be a featured player quite possibly will be."

Can you clarify this statement for me? You seem to be suggesting that there are people who don't want to see Czyz succeed or that the coaches have already decided on a rotation that they will stick with regardless. Or am I misreading this? I hope so.

Who would "circle the wagons" in the hope that a player wouldn't be better than advertised?

We all know how highly you have touted Czyz and I hope you're right. I trust that everyone associated with the Duke program hopes you're right. But a lot of people who are in a position to know think that Czyz has a pretty big learning curve ahead of him before he gets meaningful PT and I'm pretty sure none of them have any ulterior motive other than offering their best judgment.

[Turtleboy]

Uh, because the NCAA doesn't permit it? I missed the sarcasm completely.

The NCAA doesn't allow the coach to hold a practice or to observe players who are practicing. AFAIK, there is nothing wrong with the captains running the team through drills, scrimmages, etc.

[bdh21]

Uh, because the NCAA doesn't permit it? I missed the sarcasm completely. Roy, we may in fact be hopelessly naive outsiders.

The NCAA doesn't permit practice time with coaching staffs before this coming Friday. The team can practice to their hearts' content as long as it's directed by members of the team. How else will the freshman know the drill during the open practice and b/w scrimmage?

In actuality, the team has been practicing for some time (not just playing pickup, but practicing). Every practice is recorded and broken down. They have a decent idea right now of what they're going to get from players at this level. So if any word of that actually leaks out through reliable sources, and I'm not making judgments on who here is reliable, chances are it has weight behind it.

[Jumbo]

Uh, because the NCAA doesn't permit it? I missed the sarcasm completely. Roy, we may in fact be hopelessly naive outsiders.

Nah, you just might to familiarize yourself with the rules instead. This might help. And that doesn't even include captain-led practices.

[Jumbo]

"Frankly, I think the reports you're getting are the sound of the established pecking order circling the wagons against the possibility that somebody who wasn't supposed to be a featured player quite possibly will be."

Can you clarify this statement for me? You seem to be suggesting that there are people who don't want to see Czyz succeed or that the coaches have already decided on a rotation that they will stick with regardless. Or am I misreading this? I hope so.

Who would "circle the wagons" in the hope that a player wouldn't be better than advertised?

We all know how highly you have touted Czyz and I hope you're right. I trust that everyone associated with the Duke program hopes you're right. But a lot of people who are in a position to know think that Czyz has a pretty big learning curve ahead of him before he gets meaningful PT and I'm pretty sure none of them have any ulterior motive other than offering their best judgment.

Jim, you're wrong. The coaching staff recruited Czyz specifically so they could hold him back. Also, Coach K hates Polish people.

[devildeac]

Jim, you're wrong. The coaching staff recruited Czyz specifically so they could hold him back. Also, Coach K hates Polish people.

I did not realize Coach K hates Polish people. I think we are on to something here. AFAIK, Lithuania is fairly close to Poland. Maybe that's why...oh, never mind.

[BlueintheFace]

Jim, you're wrong. The coaching staff recruited Czyz specifically so they could hold him back. Also, Coach K hates Polish people.

I heard that K immediately extended an offer to Olek when he heard that there was actually a Polish top 100 recruit. Unfortunately, Olek showed up at Duke for an unofficial visit after accepting and Coach K was informed that Olek's last name did not end in "ski". At this point K became disenchanted with the enormously talented superstar. From then on, both K and Wojo have been ruthlessly abusing the phenom verbally and physically.

K was overheard the other day in K-ville saying, "Czyz you aren't even Polish Light. You're not fit to hold Taymon Domzalski's jockstrap. I hope you enjoy your season at the end of the bench poser."

Poor Olek... so much potential... possibly the next Lebron... and yet the entire coaching staff is against him. Its a tragic story.

[mgtr]

If some newby reads this thread, they will think we are all absolutely nuts! Of course, we really are nuts.

[dkbaseball]

"Frankly, I think the reports you're getting are the sound of the established pecking order circling the wagons against the possibility that somebody who wasn't supposed to be a featured player quite possibly will be."

Can you clarify this statement for me? You seem to be suggesting that there are people who don't want to see Czyz succeed or that the coaches have already decided on a rotation that they will stick with regardless. Or am I misreading this? I hope so.

Who would "circle the wagons" in the hope that a player wouldn't be better than advertised?

We all know how highly you have touted Czyz and I hope you're right. I trust that everyone associated with the Duke program hopes you're right. But a lot of people who are in a position to know think that Czyz has a pretty big learning curve ahead of him before he gets meaningful PT and I'm pretty sure none of them have any ulterior motive other than offering their best judgment.

Here's what I mean. I'm quite certain that there has never been a gathering of young American males in an environment of athletic competition that hasn't turned into a dog-eat-dog effort to form a status hierarchy. It's ALL about the pecking order when they don't have adult supervision, and that's one of the things that makes it challenging to make a team out of Americans. I expect this is true even notwithstanding the selflessness ethos of the Duke basketball program. When they are self-supervising, these sorts of elements are going to come into play.

So enter the coaching staff. If K looks at Czyz's tools for a month or two and decides he doesn't want him playing meaningful minutes this year then I will happily admit I was wrong. Well, not quite so happily, because when I look at Jumbo's rotation I see that last year's toughest player and best shooter have been replaced by two beanpole freshmen. I get very worried that they're going to come up puny and run-down again in March. I'm wondering who's going to match the burst of a Joe Alexander in March, when the team's man-child is buried on the bench.

[Wander]

Well, not quite so happily, because when I look at Jumbo's rotation I see that last year's toughest player and best shooter have been replaced by two beanpole freshmen.

Huh? Toughest is subjective to the point where it's not worth arguing about and reasonable people can disagree there, but our best shooter is going to start and get plenty of minutes.

[Wander]

I'm pretty certain that the 5-spot will be a committee of Zoubek, Plumlee and Thomas (none of those guys will get 20 mpg in that spot), with Thomas also backing up Singler at the 4. Smith/Paulus split time at the point, maybe play a little together, and E-Will backs up Scheyer and Henderson at the wing spots.

Good, encouraging to hear. With the usual disclaimers that it's very early and I'll be more than happy if Czyz or Pocius ends up better than I thought and gets meaningful minutes, that's exactly the rotation I want to see.

[SilkyJ]

Idiotic thread. Completely counterproductive. It leads to criticism of Duke players and uneducated speculation.

How does this "discussion" contribute to the Duke Basketball community?

I agree, and tried to say as much in my 1st response to the original poster, but tried to be nicer b/c of the "Civility" rules. Perhaps I should have used your angle...

What I find most disheartening about his whole thread is that I tried to quash it from the get-go and now its 3 pages long (hence, why I think maybe I should have tried your angle). The mods do a terrific job in general, but this is a situation where I hope a mod has PMed the original poster and at least guided him to see why his original post was absolutely ridiculous. Once the season gets going I hope we can eliminate or nip these threads in the bud, otherwise the signal-to-noise is going to continue to get worse...

[dkbaseball]

Huh? Toughest is subjective to the point where it's not worth arguing about and reasonable people can disagree there, but our best shooter is going to start and get plenty of minutes.

Well, if you asked for 20 subjective opinions about who Duke's physically toughest player was last year, the guy who was most ready to mix it up when things got down and dirty, you would get about 19 votes for Markie, or you would be polling a group of people who know nothing about Duke basketball. IMO King was the best pure shooter on the team last year.

[Jumbo]

Here's what I mean. I'm quite certain that there has never been a gathering of young American males in an environment of athletic competition that hasn't turned into a dog-eat-dog effort to form a status hierarchy. It's ALL about the pecking order when they don't have adult supervision, and that's one of the things that makes it challenging to make a team out of Americans. I expect this is true even notwithstanding the selflessness ethos of the Duke basketball program. When they are self-supervising, these sorts of elements are going to come into play.

So enter the coaching staff. If K looks at Czyz's tools for a month or two and decides he doesn't want him playing meaningful minutes this year then I will happily admit I was wrong. Well, not quite so happily, because when I look at Jumbo's rotation I see that last year's toughest player and best shooter have been replaced by two beanpole freshmen. I get very worried that they're going to come up puny and run-down again in March. I'm wondering who's going to match the burst of a Joe Alexander in March, when the team's man-child is buried on the bench.

Got it. So, all the returning players are banding together and saying Czyz isn't good because he's a freshman ... while simultaneously saying Plumlee has a chance to start and that Elliot Williams has been quite good so far. Got it. That makes a lot of sense. I guess that's why they weren't raving about Singler last year, since they all wanted to keep their jobs. Oh, wait, they were raving.

Oh, and on another note, Joe Alexander was the least of Duke's problems in the Tourney. He shot 7-for-22. Duke lost that game on offense, and then eventually wore down and started giving up offensive boards to a 6'1" guard. WVA went small -- there's no reason why Singler couldn't match up with a Joe Alexander-type this year. Or Thomas. Or McClure (who did a darn good job on Alexander until Duke had to take him out because we simply couldn't score).

But, again, this is all part of a clear Hold-Czyz-Down Conspiracy.

[dkbaseball]

Got it. So, all the returning players are banding together and saying Czyz isn't good because he's a freshman ... while simultaneously saying Plumlee has a chance to start and that Elliot Williams has been quite good so far. Got it. That makes a lot of sense. I guess that's why they weren't raving about Singler last year, since they all wanted to keep their jobs. Oh, wait, they were raving.

Oh, and on another note, Joe Alexander was the least of Duke's problems in the Tourney. He shot 7-for-22. Duke lost that game on offense, and then eventually wore down and started giving up offensive boards to a 6'1" guard. WVA went small -- there's no reason why Singler couldn't match up with a Joe Alexander-type this year. Or Thomas. Or McClure (who did a darn good job on Alexander until Duke had to take him out because we simply couldn't score).

But, again, this is all part of a clear Hold-Czyz-Down Conspiracy.

I'm merely speculating. Czyz, IMO, is going to be a star. He is joining a veteran team expected to make a long run without him, and the playing time has already been allocated in the minds of people like you, and no doubt the returning players as well. If you want to be naive about human nature go ahead. Of course, I don't have the slightest idea whom I might be speculating about, since you don't reveal your sources, but simply ask everyone to accept that you are some sort of plugged-in insider. But anyone who says the strongest, most explosive player on the team has little chance to get time has some sort of agenda. BTW, have you ever seen him play?

I'm sorry, but I must have been watching a different game in March if you think that Singler or any of the other dead-legged Duke players could even begin to match up with Alexander physically. This really is a case of looking without being able to see.

[Kedsy]

I agree, and tried to say as much in my 1st response to the original poster, but tried to be nicer b/c of the "Civility" rules. Perhaps I should have used your angle...

What I find most disheartening about his whole thread is that I tried to quash it from the get-go and now its 3 pages long (hence, why I think maybe I should have tried your angle). The mods do a terrific job in general, but this is a situation where I hope a mod has PMed the original poster and at least guided him to see why his original post was absolutely ridiculous. Once the season gets going I hope we can eliminate or nip these threads in the bud, otherwise the signal-to-noise is going to continue to get worse...

True, the original post had kind of an off-the-wall premise, but the thread evolved into a "who's going to be in this year's rotation" conversation, so what's wrong with that? Frankly, it's one of the few recent threads that have had anything at all to do with the current basketball season (which I assume is why it has gone on for 3 pages). If this is the "noise," what's the "signal"?