The new bathrooms can wait . . .

[allenmurray]

So can the concession stand improvements.
So can the luxury boxes.
So can lowering the field.
So can removing the track.
So can fixing the parking situation.

There is something else that must come first. Improve the EMS services.

Midway through the second quarter an elderly man two rows in front of me slumped over and passed out. Fans sprung into action, getting him laid out on a bleacher, getting his clothes loosened. Getting some water and ice. A doctor seated near by came to help. People called for the EMS service. Three minutes later two police officers arrived. Another two minutes later two more police officers arrived. After NINE minutes two EMS folks arrived, but they had neither a defibrillator nor oxygen. After another three minutes two more EMS workers arrived with a defib and oxygen.

Fortunately it was a case of heat stroke. Had it been a heart attack the man would have been dead. There is no excuse for the lack of decent EMS services at any event where 25,000 people are gathered. I wasn't seated in some far outpost, but at the fifty yard line 23 rows up from the field. We could have gotten a couple of strong guys and carried the guy to the hospital in the time it took EMS to get there (well, that might be an exageration, but we could have gotten him to the stadium gate and to an ambulance). Of course, there were four EMS workers on the field, not fifty yards in front of us, but they never came. Instead, two workers, apparantly summoned from a galaxy far, far away, were called instead. It was frightening, and could have ended a lot worse than it did.

[doctorhook]

Allenmurray,

I certainly understand your point, however, I think the sheer number of incidents like you described overwhelmed the number of EMS units at the game. While walking to the bathroom I saw four separate teams working on four patients. I realize the heat was expected, but not the number of vasovagal/heat induced events.

[killerleft]

The EMS vehicle lights were flashing from the 2nd quarter on, it looked like. I can't really speak to their efficiency, but they were busy.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Allenmurray,

I certainly understand your point, however, I think the sheer number of incidents like you described overwhelmed the number of EMS units at the game. While walking to the bathroom I saw four separate teams working on four patients. I realize the heat was expected, but not the number of vasovagal/heat induced events.

The frequency and severity of the heat related incidents today went beyond any previous game in memory (30+ years). The aluminum benches throughout seem to reflect the hot sunlight and make the stadium seem even hotter than it was years ago with the original wooden ones. (The wooden ones hid their own peril. The splinters were exceptional.)

I vote for more night games.... at least until the end of daylight savings time!!

[allenmurray]

Allenmurray,

I certainly understand your point, however, I think the sheer number of incidents like you described overwhelmed the number of EMS units at the game. While walking to the bathroom I saw four separate teams working on four patients. I realize the heat was expected, but not the number of vasovagal/heat induced events.

You make a very fair point, from what I have since heard folks were dropping left and right. OTOH, given the weather forecast, that fact that anyone who has ever been to WW knows there is NO shade at noon, and the fact that the place is a large concrete bowl, perhaps having a few more units on hand, (or even some Red Cross volunteers if no more paid EMS units were available) would have been wise.

Also, this is a great reason to stop having noon games in mid-September at WW. Mid-September in Durham rivals mid-July many palces in the US. ESPNU coverge is fun, but not at the expense of serious injury or death.

[throatybeard]

Also, this is a great reason to stop having noon games in mid-September at WW. Mid-September in Durham rivals mid-July many places in the US. ESPNU coverage is fun, but not at the expense of serious injury or death.

You're right, Allen. This is indicative of a disease that most of the American people have--the inability to understand the risks of heat exposure. Heat kills more people than any other natural disaster. Particularly in the South, we've got people who think the world is ending when it's 60 degrees, but will willingly go out into heat like that and risk death. It's insane.

[doctorhook]

Cathy,

How do you know that all the EMS teams were not occupied at the time of this unfortunate gentleman's incident? If nine teams are taking caring of nine patients, do you expect them to leave their patient for this man? Of course not. I suggest you spend the day with one of these dedicated EMS teams in a situation like this, and you may not be so critical of their performance. As for the Durham PD, because of litigation fear, if they are not qualified/cerified EMS, they are instructed not to attend to these paients until EMS shows up.

[CathyCA]

Cathy,

How do you know that all the EMS teams were not occupied at the time of this unfortunate gentleman's incident? If nine teams are taking caring of nine patients, do you expect them to leave their patient for this man? Of course not. I suggest you spend the day with one of these dedicated EMS teams in a situation like this, and you may not be so critical of their performance. As for the Durham PD, because of litigation fear, if they are not qualified/cerified EMS, they are instructed not to attend to these paients until EMS shows up.

I don't know whether the EMS teams were occupied or not when this gentleman needed them.

What I do know is that the weather forecasts predicted high temperatures for a noon start in Wally Wade. Duke University also knew how many people to expect, based on advance ticket sales. A little advance planning could have gotten more EMS teams in place at Wally Wade.

I do not doubt for one second the dedication of the EMS teams.

I do question their preparedness today, and I question the failure of the
university to adequately plan for such a situation.

And for a crowd of 25,000 people on a day as hot as today, I think that 9 teams of EMS workers is not enough.

Could they not call in EMS teams from other jurisdictions beforehand? Other colleges/universities call in law enforcement and EMS from other jurisdictions on their game days. It might not be a bad idea for Duke to consider this.

[doctorhook]

Cathy,

I used 9 simply as a random number. Even if you have 15 teams, if there are 16 events, you will not be able to attend to everyone in a prompt manner. Planning for medical incidents is not an easy task, and there are times when the system just gets overwhelmed. You were not critical of the EMS, but you were critical of the PD without knowing policy and procedure. I do not claim that the system is/was good and certainly not perfect, but predicting medical events is not an easy task. I certainly did not see EMS crews sitting around eating pizza.

[CathyCA]

Cathy,

I used 9 simply as a random number. Even if you have 15 teams, if there are 16 events, you will not be able to attend to everyone in a prompt manner. Planning for medical incidents is not an easy task, and there are times when the system just gets overwhelmed. You were not critical of the EMS, but you were critical of the PD without knowing policy and procedure. I do not claim that the system is/was good and certainly not perfect, but predicting medical events is not an easy task. I certainly did not see EMS crews sitting around eating pizza.

Yes, I had an expectation that when the police arrived, they would provide help. Usually that's what happens.

My apologies for not knowing that Durham PD could not respond to a medical emergency.

[devil84]

The same thing happened in my section, too, though this was a young lady (college age) that was having trouble with the heat. Sometime in the first half, the Durham PD came down and looked at her. A few minutes later, an EMS guy came down empty handed, and spent time looking mostly befuddled, looking up towards the concourse. They finally walked her up, with neither the DPD or EMS person helping her.

At the half, my mom was having a bit of trouble. We were going to find some shade, and when she stood up, she got dizzy. We sat her down, had her drink her water (waiting for the crowds to subside), then my son and I helped her up the stairs to a shady area. We had to stop to let a golf cart through -- it was one of those passenger carts that seats 8, filled with six elderly people with ice bags on the backs of their necks.

We got mom to the shade behind the concession stand, where that young lady was still sitting in the shade looking uncomfortable. Mom was really starting to have problems, and the nearby police officer got her a couple of handfuls of ice wrapped in paper towel and offered to get her a chair. We moved her to a nearby bench, and she was able to be moved into a nearby air conditioned building. She was the first one in the building, and within 10 minutes, there were about 20 others in there -- five of those people (including my mom) looked like they could use EMS help. None of the people in that building saw an EMS worker, though there were several DPD officers in there.

Fortunately, the ice and the bottle of water mom had helped cool and rehydrate her enough that we were able to take her home in the middle of the third quarter. She's doing fine now.

Just from the number of people that we had to pass while helping my mom -- I'm not sure that Duke could have anticipated the need.

From here on out, night games through September get my vote!

(And that, Cathy, is the reason why I didn't find you during halftime!)

[throatybeard]

The only day games Duke or any Southern school should ever have are those after Nov 15.

That said, it's hard to turn down the TV money especially when you're us.

I've been to grotesquely hot games even the first weekend in November at Wade. And Carter-Finley. And Davis-Wade in Starkville.

[doctorhook]

When the police arrived, what sort of help did you expect that " usually happens" ? Are you referring to medical attention? Do you want untrained police officers providing medical services?

[gvtucker]

It was hot today, no question. But it was definitely warmer at a game or two last year. I'm not sure why so many more people were being affected by the heat today, but there's no question that people were going down all over the stadium.

I'm not sure that this large a number of people needing help could be anticipated by the university.

[throatybeard]

It was hot today, no question. But it was definitely warmer at a game or two last year. I'm not sure why so many more people were being affected by the heat today, but there's no question that people were going down all over the stadium.

I'm not sure that this large a number of people needing help could be anticipated by the university.

The gross dewpoint in the 70s. That's why.

[watzone]

I covered the game from the stands today and made my way around to a lot of areas. At one point I saw and elderly couple at the very top of the close horsehoe section and they were unhealthy looking hot. The husband had an umbrella and the wife was trying to get under it, but it didn't seem to work. She then went out to get something and returned. At that point I took it upon myself to deliver them some water and she was greatly appreciative. I kept a close eye on them, but at halftime both ended up at the EMS station after walking out to cool off. In all honesty, I saw twenty more people I wanted to buy a water or two for. The bottom line is I saw firsthand and extreme overload on the EMS services and a bunch and I do mean bunch of people being helped in evey way possible. In the third quarter alone, one station had an ambulance come and go six times. I felt concerned and helpless. I am sure the unexpected overload made the EMS feel overwhelmed as well. Everywhere you looked up top, people were suffering from the heat. One last thing, I saw one EMS worker go from person to person to person in the tent and each one needed his attention. I will admit, fans and more space were needed today, but to blame the EMS guys is wrong.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I can agree with everyone here, on both sides. I think the university should have been better prepared, but at the same time I'm not sure anyone could have predicted how bad it would be. I think they were ready for a lot of cases, just not the numbers they saw. Even the Navy QB left the game with heat exhaustion, and as a sports team, they would have been plenty prepared themselves. Duke can't do much about what happened today because it is past, but I sure hope they learn from it. If they schedule a noon game again, they will need to double up the medical services. What they should really do though, is not schedule any noon games until October. Leave all of September for either night or late afternoon. Several people have commented on crowd size being small today, it's not hard to figure out why. Even a couple of us DBR folks who were at the game did not actually go in. They were quite satisfied to listen to the radio and the crowd from outside the stadium in the comfort of a shaded tree.

[Acymetric]

Just out of curiosity, is there any reason ESPNU couldn't schedule a night game? Right now it seems like they're just showing classic games. I guess because its tougher to compete for viewers with the late night games like the USC-OSU game, but why not schedule for an 8:00 tv time?

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Just out of curiosity, is there any reason ESPNU couldn't schedule a night game? Right now it seems like they're just showing classic games. I guess because its tougher to compete for viewers with the late night games like the USC-OSU game, but why not schedule for an 8:00 tv time?

A good question for Dr. White to raise.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Just out of curiosity, is there any reason ESPNU couldn't schedule a night game? Right now it seems like they're just showing classic games. I guess because its tougher to compete for viewers with the late night games like the USC-OSU game, but why not schedule for an 8:00 tv time?

Let's face it: the only fans watching the Duke - Navy game on ESPNU were Duke and Navy fans, who probably would watch that over USC-Ohio State anyway, at least record one of them on their two channel DVR. Yes, this game should have been scheduled at night.