Carolina early entry vigil

[RelativeWays]

This shouldn't be a surprise at all.

[throatybeard]

Damn.

Well, I prefer 3 years of Clever Hans to five of Ivory Latta.

[duke98]

Damn.

Well, I prefer 3 years of Clever Hans to five of Ivory Latta.

I couldn't agree with you more on this. My only reason for disliking Hansborough is that he's a good player. With Latta...not so much.

[CMS2478]

I just got on Inside Carolina to get their reactions and I don't think they even know yet. If they do they haven't posted anything.

[freedevil]

If Lawson and Wright go, I am not concerned by this news.

[dukeENG2003]

I'll agree with the sentiment that there are some UNC players who I just dislike because of the Jersey they wear (Jerry Stackhouse, Donald Williams, Antawn Jamison to name a few), but Tyler Hansborough is NOT in that category. He is, quite simply, a punk. I'm all for intensity, but at some point, you have to show some control as well (he didn't get the nickname "psycho" by accident). Also, his signature move is simply smashing himself into whoever is guarding him in an effort to draw a foul. His reaction to the G-Henderson incident didn't help my perception of him either (the fact that he was all but ready to try and throw down).

[JasonEvans]

If Lawson and Wright go, I am not concerned by this news.

Wright is considered a sure-thing. Lawson is the only real debate. Hansbrough was assumed to be back (though I think he could have left as his draft stock is about as high as it can be).

Thad Young is leaving Tech too. They would have been scary good if he came back. If Crittendon returns they are still fine, but if they lose him the Tech takes a real step backwards.

-Jason "there is usually one 'what?!?!?' declaration each year-- like Shav 2 years ago and Josh Powell before that -- who will it be this year?" Evans

[dukelion]

If Lawson and Wright go, I am not concerned by this news.

If Lawson goes then they'll struggle to stay in the top 25.

Withhout Lawson they lose a lot of their up tempo pace and become a halfcourt team without much depth....and if they had one weakness this year it was their half court offesne.

Frasor, Ginyard, Green, and Q. Thomas are not gifted scorers. Ellington will be their only reliable outside threat.

And Lawson would be nuts not to declare...he's listed as a top 15 pick on just about every mock site.

Next year he would have to compete with other PG's such as Mayo, D. Rose, and Gordon. Add to that Crittendon, DJ Agustin, Mario Chalmers, Scottie Reynolds, Sherron Collins, and maybe Mike Connoly Jr.

Next year's draft will be loaded with PG's....lawson would be crazy to wait until next year.

[Wander]

If Lawson goes then they'll struggle to stay in the top 25.

A team with a top 6 of Hansbrough, Green, Ginyard, Ellington, Frasor, and Thompson with Roy Williams as the coach is not going to "struggle to stay in the top 25. " However, Lawson is probably the difference between UNC being a serious title contender and a Top 25 team.

[dukelifer]

If Lawson goes then they'll struggle to stay in the top 25.

Withhout Lawson they lose a lot of their up tempo pace and become a halfcourt team without much depth....and if they had one weakness this year it was their half court offesne.

Frasor, Ginyard, Green, and Q. Thomas are not gifted scorers. Ellington will be their only reliable outside threat.

And Lawson would be nuts not to declare...he's listed as a top 15 pick on just about every mock site.

Next year he would have to compete with other PG's such as Mayo, D. Rose, and Gordon. Add to that Crittendon, DJ Agustin, Mario Chalmers, Scottie Reynolds, Sherron Collins, and maybe Mike Connoly Jr.

Next year's draft will be loaded with PG's....lawson would be crazy to wait until next year.

Lawson should go and will likely do so if he will be drafted high enough. But no way are they not a top 25 team. They will be strong with or without Lawson. Just not as fast.

[greybeard]

Hansbrough, as a college player, is terrific. He has much, much more than one move; has great, as in a-one footwork and hands; tremendous imagination; and can deliver the ball from many different angles in many different ways from where the defender(s) are not. You guys are killing me.

If Wright and Lawson leave, UNC will be just as good as if they stayed. Yeap, your ears are seeing right. Just as good, but not as dominant against lesser teams. Without Lawson and Wright, I think that they might well have a better shot at the prize. Hansbrough will score the ball more, and have many more touches. The half court offense, which will run through him, will be much more effective. They will still run, but not play true Roy ball, which is entertaining but flawed; playing a more normal (for lack of a better term) style, I like their chances to make a real run at it all better. Or not. Just schmoozing.

[vmurray]

I'll agree with the sentiment that there are some UNC players who I just dislike because of the Jersey they wear (Jerry Stackhouse, Donald Williams, Antawn Jamison to name a few), but Tyler Hansborough is NOT in that category. He is, quite simply, a punk. I'm all for intensity, but at some point, you have to show some control as well (he didn't get the nickname "psycho" by accident). Also, his signature move is simply smashing himself into whoever is guarding him in an effort to draw a foul. His reaction to the G-Henderson incident didn't help my perception of him either (the fact that he was all but ready to try and throw down).

I can understand your distain of Latta among other players who had an on court persona that was less than appealing. It is a little harder to understand your strong statements about Hansbrough. Judging from the 2003 in your moniker you may not remember how adept Ferry was at drawing at fouls that had most non Duke fans screeching. It worked for him and it works for Hansbrough. I thought he handled the Henderson stuff as well as could be expected. Yeah he got up po'd. But don't think for a minute if he had wanted to go after Henderson that Dewey Burke could have stopped him. He was pretty gracious in the press conferences and the press wouldn't shut up about it. He gives a lot on the court every time he goes out and without a "rub it in your face" attitude. Nobody works harder than Tyler Hansbrough. I am very proud to call him a Tar Heel.
VMurray

[McGrupp]

I've tried to hate Hansbrough but I can't. He plays hard all the time and is a reliable free throw shooter. He doesn't showboat or thump his own chest. Did I mention he plays hard all the time? I can't hate guys like that.

I agree he gets away with a certain amount of rough play, but on the other hand he is constantly clobbered down low. I think it cuts both ways enough to be a wash.

[Patrick Yates]

If Lawson goes then they'll struggle to stay in the top 25.

Withhout Lawson they lose a lot of their up tempo pace and become a halfcourt team without much depth....and if they had one weakness this year it was their half court offesne.

Frasor, Ginyard, Green, and Q. Thomas are not gifted scorers. Ellington will be their only reliable outside threat.

And Lawson would be nuts not to declare...he's listed as a top 15 pick on just about every mock site.

Next year he would have to compete with other PG's such as Mayo, D. Rose, and Gordon. Add to that Crittendon, DJ Agustin, Mario Chalmers, Scottie Reynolds, Sherron Collins, and maybe Mike Connoly Jr.

Next year's draft will be loaded with PG's....lawson would be crazy to wait until next year.

Tonight can change many things. Conley is supposed to stay, right now, but a strong NC win could change that. And he goes ahead of Lawson, no doubt about it. That could push Lawson down. Same with Crittendon, who would not surprise me if he left. Basically, I think Ty has already filled out his papers to declare, but he will wait until he sees who else is going. Because, if he doesn't go this year, he might have to wait until his Jr year to go out. But, he doesn't want to declare this year , only to be seen as dropping as higher rated players at the PG also declare, and then return to school with his tail between his legs, (cause the crazies, NCSU, and UMD will let him hear about that, no doubt), with the rest of the team and Roy secure in the knowledge that Ty would rather not still be at UNC. Ty must play chicken with the other PGs this year. It is a game of brinksmanship that should be very interesting over the next few months.

Ty's season left a bad taste. Frankly, as enjoyable as UNC's collapse was vs G-Town, it hurt Duke in the long run. I think OSU beats UNC in the FF by doing what G-Town did, turning UNC into an outside shooting team, and whipping them. A FF run by UNC would have sealed the deal as far as Wright and Lawson, and probably Hans going pro. Now, there is doubt as to Lawson and Hans, and Wright is probably at about 90% likely to go, whereas a FF run would have resulted in talk that he had already told Ol Roy that he was gonzo.

Regarding Hans, this sounds like info from a UNC homer, who wants it to be true. We have seen similiar occurrances. Deng was comming back, Dunleavy too, no way were Corey and Will Avery going pro, etc.

Let's face it, being the man on the UNC team is sweet. Plenty of adulation, etc. But all that ends once you declare for the pros. Look at what we did to McBob once he declared, and you can bet he is not recieving as much adulation around campus, if he's still there. Heck, I was in Shane's class at Duke, and when Elton declared, with the full support and encouragement of Coach K, it was obvious that he was not as beloved as before.

It was not that anyone was mean or disparaging, but dissappointed (selfish I know, but there it is). We wished him the best, but we wanted him to come back for the team, which every undergrad half considers him or herself to be a part of (6th man etc.). Our dissappointment was reflected. At the bus stop, around campus, at parties, there was a lot less hero worship, while the returning players and graduating seniors were as beloved as ever. (Don't blame the undergrads, you have to distance yourself so that the healing can begin)

If I was "the man" on a campus like Hans is, I would wait to announce until after school ended, when I was safely away from a bunch of kids who are apt to feel scorned. Also, it would be nice to be safely away from the local sports radio, newspaper columns, restaraunts, etc. (also, who wants to be out with your friends while some snotty yankee wearing a Duke T-shirt yells "thank you Tyler" at the mall? Nobody wants that)

Maybe these kids don't care about any of this, but maybe they do. Also, once their home, and away from the beautiful campus and smiling coeds, the money of the pros looks a little bit better.

I won't believe Hans is coming back until the early entry date has passed. Same for any other player in collge ball. I have seen too much to beleive any report, even if it is a televised interview with the player in question.

Patrick Yates

[Wander]

If Wright and Lawson leave, UNC will be just as good as if they stayed. Yeap, your ears are seeing right. Just as good, but not as dominant against lesser teams. Without Lawson and Wright, I think that they might well have a better shot at the prize.

Sorry, but you could not be more wrong. There is absolutely no way that UNC is as good/better with Frasor and Thompson playing in place of Lawson and Wright. Carolina will be good regardless of who leaves, but no matter what their roster looks like, it's better with Lawson and Wright in there.

[ikiru36]

Hansbrough, as a college player, is terrific. He has much, much more than one move; has great, as in a-one footwork and hands; tremendous imagination; and can deliver the ball from many different angles in many different ways from where the defender(s) are not. You guys are killing me.

If Wright and Lawson leave, UNC will be just as good as if they stayed. Yeap, your ears are seeing right. Just as good, but not as dominant against lesser teams. Without Lawson and Wright, I think that they might well have a better shot at the prize. Hansbrough will score the ball more, and have many more touches. The half court offense, which will run through him, will be much more effective. They will still run, but not play true Roy ball, which is entertaining but flawed; playing a more normal (for lack of a better term) style, I like their chances to make a real run at it all better. Or not. Just schmoozing.

GB, you make some valid points, but definitely overstate your case re: UNC's caliber w/o Wright or Lawson. I agree that some others are (perhaps vastly) understating the special skills of Hansbrough, but Wright was a matchup nightmare who unquestionably kept teams from being able to focus on Hansbrough, defensively. And Lawson's ability to penetrate and dish helped Hansbrough get the ball in excellent position much of the time (which for him is HUGE).

As you astutely point out, Roy has a favored style and Lawson/Wright fit that style far more than next year's squad would without them. Not that Roy can't/won't adjust to his personnel, but if Dean were still coaching, I'd agree with you more.

Finally, many seem to forget that in addition to whichever early entry guys they lose, Terry and Miller are not insignificant losses as well.

[whereinthehellami]

per draft express.com...

That sucks but is not unexpected. Count me as someone who doesn't want to like Hans but can't seem to muster up any real disdain for him. Despite his goofy moves and looks, he is very effective and I find myself constantly saying "How did he convert that?". He will be a horse next year and I fear for whoever goes up against him, though they won't be in for long, as they will be in foul trouble on the bench watching the Hanny parade at the foul line.

[Olympic Fan]

Put me in the camp of those who things Lawson's decision is vital for UNC next year.

They will still be good without him (and Wright), but if those two go, I don't see thing as real contenders. Lawson's erratic play may have been annoying at times, but he brings a dimension that Fraser lacks. A healthy Fraser will be better than the hobbled Fraser we saw this year (just as Paulus will be better if he's healthy next year), but at his best, he's not as dynamic a playmaker as Lawson's average game.

If Lawson and Wright stay, I see UNC as preseason No. 1 (unless all the Florida juniors and/or the Ohio State freshmen all return). If just Wright leaves, then I still think UNC is in the mix -- top 5, easy. If Wright AND Lawson leave, I think they are a second-10 kind of team. Only if Wright, Lawson AND Hansbrough leave do I worry about them being a top 25 team.

I have to take issue with Jason about Georgia Tech taking a step back without Young. He's a great talent and they lose the potential he won't be able to display, but measured by what he actually provided, I think they'll replace that easily and improve overall -- provided Crittenton stays.

The reason is that Hewitt will replace Young with a very talented guy in Gani Lawal, who is actually a better fit up front than Young. They also return Clinch, who provides an upgrade in outside shooting from what Young gave them last year.

I think a starting five of Crittendon, Clinch, Lawal, Smith and Dickey is better than what they had this year. They won't be as quite as good as they would have been with Young staying, but I think they're quite a bit better than they were with him this past season.

[greybeard]

Sorry, but you could not be more wrong. There is absolutely no way that UNC is as good/better with Frasor and Thompson playing in place of Lawson and Wright. Carolina will be good regardless of who leaves, but no matter what their roster looks like, it's better with Lawson and Wright in there.

You might well be right, I mean both are terrific, terrific players, especially Wright, but consider this.

1. A player occupying the ball as much as Lawson does costs something.

2. A team that runs on every possession costs something.

3. The first two are very entertaining; heck, that California team with Gathers and what's his name were terrific to watch; much better to watch than UNC.

4. A guess at the cost: there is something about players really "getting" the offensive game in the half court that I find compelling. Getting it on the offensive side of the ball in the half court leads, imo, to getting it defensively, especially as regards to players, as a team, being able to make key stops. When one guy occupies the ball as much as Lawson, or when a team runs out as much as UNC does this year, there is this "getting it" as a team that is, imo, absent.

How do we measure better? If it is a championship you are after, give me a team, a very, very talented team, that gets it, over this year's UNC team. Give me a Florida over an Ohio State, which clearly has the two best players on the court tonight.

So, while you may be right, I prefer my take even if I'm wrong. Huh?

[Rip]

He's an experienced choker.

He needs to stay.