Fringe discussion

[jimsumner]

Intriguing so far.

We'll see how it goes.

I do see a lot of similarities with X-files. Not so much plot lines as the sense of doom and dread, the feeling that nothing is as it should be, that no one can be trusted.

[JasonEvans]

Has anybody else noticed that the networks seem to do that? A couple years ago it was the conspiracy theory shows. The next year it was aliens and they had the show with the glowing sting-ray looking things in the water that ate people and replaced their bodies as well as the show with the kid who adopted the dinosaur-like creature he found in the ocean. Does anyone remember those shows, or am I totally nuts here? How does that happen? Does one network come up with it first and then others copy them? Or does a popular movie give people ideas of what audiences will watch? Maybe our insider Jason can fill us in on that process. Jason?

There is certainly a sense of "it worked once, lets make it work again" in Hollywood when it comes to themes for TV series. Sure, there are some formats that are always hanging around -- medical dramas, legal/cop/crime stories, comedies about families/parenting -- but whenever something vaguely new or unusual comes along and strikes a chord with viewers it almost always get replicated by all the networks.

Most folks trace the current sci-fi craze to Lost. There is little question that interest in that genre is part of what made NBC take the plunge with Heroes. It also helps that almost all of the biggest movies of recent years have been at least somewhat in the sci-fi realm.

Really, the TV networks trying to duplicate the success of one show is no different from what happens in the movie business. Iron Man, Batman, and other current superhero movies got their big-budget go-aheads from studios that saw the monster success that was Spiderman a few years ago.

All these things come in waves. We are currently in a big sci-fi wave. It will fade at some point. Sci-fi won't go away but something else will be on top for a little while and you'll see a lot less sci-fi/comic book stuff on TV and in theaters. Then, whatever the new fad is will fade and sci-fi will come back. It is hardly rocket science to see how this stuff works.

Want more examples? The current reality TV/game show craze on TV is largely a product of the huge success of Survivor (summer 2000) and Who Wants To Be a Millionaire (fall 1999-spring 2000). It is just how the entertainment biz works.

-Jason

One thing that

[bjornolf]

well, yeah, but a LOT of times the shows all seem to come out at the same time, like Threshold, Invasion (the one about the glowing rays in the water that eat people and replace them), and the other one I mentioned that I couldn't remember the name with the sea monsters the kid takes home (I just found it, it was called Surface). There was also a stream of paranormal type shows that came out together, back around the time of Freaky Links (which I loved). I understand how when something's successful, people will try to copy it. What I don't get is how two or three networks come out with shows that are VERY similar at the same time. That's what I don't get. How does that work?

[JasonEvans]

This kind of thing simply does not happen.

If you think the plot-lines on Fringe are unlikely, wait until you hear about the ratings for the show.

After a good-but-not-nearly-as-good-as-had-been-hoped debut week for Fringe, there was a fair amount of hand-wringing over the future of this stylish show. Traditionally, shows tend to drop off a bit from debut to 2nd week -- unless there is just so much buzz and excitement over the debut that the show can build. With a fair amount of hype going into its debut, I thought this would be difficult for Fringe. Basically, I figured that everyone who would watch the show already knew about it.

Well, I have no idea why but I was wrong, wrong, wrong! Fringe is a hit -- a big hit!

Helped out by a strong lead-in from Bones, Fringe's audience surged in week #2. The show attracted 13.3 million viewers, almost 50% more than it had in its debut week. That is just not done. Fox says no drama has done that in at least 5 years -- and perhaps ever.

Having one of Fox's biggest shows as its lead-in was probably a major reason for the bump, but that does not explain all of it. It is worth noting that Fringe attracted more males and more 18-34 year olds than Bones did, meaning Fringe's impressive number was not just about holding onto folks who were already watching Bones.

It is still not nearly a Lost-sized hit, but unless something drastic happens, it now appears Fringe will be here for a while.

--Jason "I have still not watched Ep 2 -- my TIVO awaits" Evans

[DukeDude]

Helped out by a strong lead-in from Bones, Fringe's audience surged in week #2. The show attracted 13.3 million viewers, almost 50% more than it had in its debut week. That is just not done. Fox says no drama has done that in at least 5 years -- and perhaps ever.

Having one of Fox's biggest shows as its lead-in was probably a major reason for the bump, but that does not explain all of it. It is worth noting that Fringe attracted more males and more 18-34 year olds than Bones did, meaning Fringe's impressive number was not just about holding onto folks who were already watching Bones.

It was actually preceded by the House season premiere. What sort of numbers did House receive?

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Agree with others that it's okay, not great so far. Very derivative of X-Files, Eureka, etc. with a Monk/Silence of the Lambs zany Dr tossed in. (The only similarity I saw with Twin Peaks was the Kyle McLaughlin lookalike twins in the Pilot). Also found the writing really terrible at times. Leaving aside the plot issues mentioned above, the dialogue was really, really bad. "Terrible terror" was the low point, but tons of motivation presented via statement ("I want to drive a tank into the building"), hackneyed "action" lines, etc. Believe it or not, there are better way to establish that a female character is fighting in a "man's world" than to have everyone call her "honey" a lot and be dismissive.

Still, a lot of shows start off rough and get better, so I think it's due a few more weeks to see if they start developing characters beyond "the hard-a__" boss, the "brilliant eccentric", and "Pacey but whinier." X-Files worked because of Mulder and Scully and I've seen nobody with anything approaching the complexity and chemistry of those characters presented in the X-Files pilot. Abrams normally gives us such strong characters so I'll be cautiously interested to see what he brings as the season progresses.

[JasonEvans]

It was actually preceded by the House season premiere. What sort of numbers did House receive?

Duuuuh-- I knew that. I am an idiot. I don't know why I wrote Bones. Those two shows are not in the same ballpark in terms of ratings.

House did ok in its debut, but not up to its usual very high standards. It pulled in 14.7 million viewers, tops of any show on Tuesday night. But, that is a sharp decline from a year ago when house debuted with more than 18 million viewers. It is not a decline to be alarmed about-- House remains one of the biggest dramas on TV-- but it is a drop off from last season.

--Jason "if House and Fringe continue to do these exact same numbers, Fox will be very pleased" Evans

[freshmanjs]

Seems to me that Fox would have been better off premiering Fringe right after the premiere of House. That would have gotten a much larger audience for the 1st episode (much stronger ep than #2). Anyway, the show is enjoyable enough that I'm glad it has an audience.

[JasonEvans]

Seems to me that Fox would have been better off premiering Fringe right after the premiere of House. That would have gotten a much larger audience for the 1st episode (much stronger ep than #2). Anyway, the show is enjoyable enough that I'm glad it has an audience.

The problem was that the Fringe debut episode was 90 mins long (with limited commercial interruptions, 2 hours with regular commercials). Putting it on the same night as House was impossible.

As an aside, Fox has been big time long enough that it should start programming until 11pm anyway. Think of all they are giving away by not putting anything on after the 2-hour editions of American Idol!

--Jason "how did ABC let JJ pitch Fringe to Fox?!?!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Fringe Ratings Report- Week #3

This was not a good week. After the big boost from House, Fringe fell back down again this week, to 9.6 million viewers. It was 3rd in its time slot, well behind the debut of he Mentalist on CBS (15.5 million viewers) and Dancing With the Stars on ABC (17+ million). However, that only tells part of the story.

Fringe may have been clobbered by those two shows in total viewers, but it did quite well when you only look at the very desirable younger demographics. It actually won the 9pm hour among 18-34 year olds and it came in a very close second to Dancing in the 18-49 year old demo. The takeaway from this is the The Mentalist is skewing very, very old (like many CBS shows) and that Fringe, despite some less than stellar overall ratings, is still a hit among younger viewers. Fringe will live for a while, it seems.

--Jason "I have a feeling that JJ and the folks behind Fringe have some stuff planned out that will make this seem smarter than just an X-Files rip-off... I hope" Evans

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

I have to disagree with some of the comments.

I've watched a helluva lot of X-files, I don't think the show is meant to immitate it in any way shape or form.

If you've been really into Lost, actively playing the Arg game, looking into the Wiki-files, you'll see there is a lot of "fringe" science in the world of lost.

JJ's Cloverfield had an extremely realistic sci-fi feel to it as well which is what I think makes him so talented among others.

I think Fringe is a channel for some other of JJ's ideas. It seems to me like he wants us as an audience to really delve into what could be possible.
It doesn't mean its going to be as complete as LOST, but it may take your mind on a rollercoaster through a lot of different futuristic possibilities. A lot of things we use on a day to day basis - if you'd go back 400 years - no one would ever even think of believing it was possible.

more later.

[CLT Devil]

Okay - After last night's 'The Arrival' episode I think I'm done with Fringe. Too many unbelievable events...bald guy who can read minds, bad guy came back to life after being killed in first episode, some dude with a crazy ray gun, wacky scientist subdues agent and wants a root beer. Thought it could have been a decent show but last night was pretty bad.

[JasonEvans]

Okay - After last night's 'The Arrival' episode I think I'm done with Fringe. Too many unbelievable events...bald guy who can read minds, bad guy came back to life after being killed in first episode, some dude with a crazy ray gun, wacky scientist subdues agent and wants a root beer. Thought it could have been a decent show but last night was pretty bad.

I have to admit, "The Observer" troubles me. I think they were on a fairly cool theme up until this point where they were trying to explain everything with some form of science. I am at a loss for how you explain "The Observer" other than making him someone from the future or from outer space or something dorky like that. He is a cool mystery but takes the show in a direction that I do not like and that is not consistent with where they have gone so far.

I was also bothered that no one commented on the weapon the bad guy was using in this past episode. Joshua Jackson said, "careful, he's got a gun!" at one point but then the bad dude fired his weapon and it caused an explosion much bigger than any gun and no one bothered to even mention it. What's more, the bad guy used his weapon to kill lots of FBI folks but no one talked about the mystery of how they died. I am guessing there were no bullet holes. That should have been a major part of what they were investigating. At the end, the bad guy is dead and the gun is lying on the ground, but the hot female FBI agent does not even give it a second glance. Poor storytelling.

Still, I am sorta digging the show and am willing to give it more time.

-Jason "my wife is not a fan, which is a bad sign as she fell for Lost and XFiles pretty quickly" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Fox has picked up Fringe for the entire season. It is the leading show among 18-49 year old viewers, which is a very key demographic.

Additionally, the ratings held firm this week. It won its time slot among 18-49 year olds and is keeping about 80% of the strong leadin from House.

I hope that the security of good ratings and a full season pickup will allow the writers and producers to build some important plot points to really allow this show to live up to its potential.

-Jason "I skipped Heroes this week... I am so proud of myself" Evans

[bigj4194]

I too am still enjoying this show. I think this show is one that yu need a little bit of imagination on and one that will continue to be interesting.

A side thought about the observer...I hope they explain him more in future episodes.

[Cavlaw]

I had House on while making dinner, and left the TV tuned to Fox when Fringe came on. I lasted about 15-20 minutes of having it on in the background before I just had to find something more interesting.

[CLT Devil]

I'm with you. The first few episodes were good, but this latest one I had to break out the cpu and do some work while I had it on in the background.

Jason - your points were right on the money. The bald 'observer' guy seemed to not be a human, maybe outer space? Why didn't the agent immediately grab the digging thing if she knew it could dig a hole by itself and disappear? The gun is a whole 'nother story...it took out multiple agents who wore heavy armor, yet in the woods he couldnt hit someone because they hid behind a slender tree? Maybe Im being too picky, but these little things are what I liked about the X-Files, and it seems like it's too early to have so many mysteries with no explanation...maybe if they had introduced them at a slower rate.

Interest is waning...Ill give it one more episode.

[elvis14]

I finally watched this weeks Fringe last night (after the VP debate). I have to agree with what others have said, it was a weak episode that was too over the top. In one episode, we have the following which are not in anyway explained or sometimes not even openly wondered about:

• The ray gun (nobody mentioned it, tried to keep it etc)
• The bad guy with the ray gun, no background no information about who he was working for, etc
• The bald guy (at least Pacey was wondering why this guy could read his mind) really what's up with that guy
• The mind reading machine the bad guy used...what happened to that?
• The dead boyfriend showing up
• The big silver suppository that humms

Then there's the whole thing where we get hints that "Massive Dynamics" is really the evil empire. Then we see them working with the FBI? Yet what we don't see is anyone really trying to investigate MD to figure out what's up. We keep hearing references to "the pattern" but we don't see anyone trying to put the pieces together to figure it out.

This show has so much potential, I hope future episodes are better than last night and don't require not just suspension of disbelief but also suspension of common sense!

[JasonEvans]

My wife says she is getting a little bit tired of the "mad doctor" always instantly knowing the answer for everything. It seems every single little project he worked upon 20 years ago is now part of "the pattern." Ok, I am fine with that because the pattern is probably being created by Massive Dynamics and the mad doc's old lab partner. But are we supposed to think that the folks at Massive D have not come up with any other new stuff in the past 20 years?

So far, the show is reeking of "X Files" episodes that are not about the overall story but are just random stuff. I guess last night was ok, but it didn't do all that much for me. I suspect that the bad guy doctor who did the experiments will certainly play a role down the road, but if that is the case then I think we needed to get to know him better in this episode. The show is doing some decent ongoing stuff with Mark Valley's dead character but it is so much of a side thought that it is not hooking me.

I want something to make me wonder what is going on but give me clues at the same time. I want something to make me want to come back -- something more than blind faith that the shows knows where it is going adn that it is going to some cool places.

Sure, having the bald "observer" walk out of the elevator before it crashes to the ground was sorta fun but the show needs to do more than just have the bald guy show up every episode in my opinion.

Oh, and when are they going to do something -- anything -- with Joshua Jackson's character? He is supposed to be some genius but his role so far mostly consists of one-liners about how crazy his father is. Yawn.

--Jason "everyone noticed the bald observer, right?" Evans

[BluDevilGal]

--Jason "everyone noticed the bald observer, right?" Evans

Nope, totally missed that. But I'm hopeless at noticing anything whether on tv or in real life.

Thanks for pointing it out!