Fringe discussion

[Lord Ash]

Back from the dead!

Has anyone been keeping up on this show? The last few episodes of the season were fantastic, and the season finale was GREAT... some REALLY daring story telling, and a chance to fundamentally alter the show next season in a way that is both very natural and very intriguing as far as the potential...

Anyone still watching it?

[JasonEvans]

I saw it and LOVED the finale. The moment after the grenade went off when Olivia and Dr. Bell went into the theater, I said to my wife, "that's the other Olivia."

Very cool ending!

This is better plotting and storylines than The X-Files but without quite as good acting or as miuch chemistry as DD and Gillian Anderson had. Still, I am loving this show right now!

I am sad to see William Bell/Leonard Nimoy leave. He played a small role, but it added immensely to the show's cool-factor. Nimoy has 100% retired from acting and says he will not appear on Fringe ever again. Pity, there is a lot more they could have done with that character.

Fox has picked up season 3, it was touch and go for a little while, but the show seems to be on solid footing right now.

--Jason "eager to see hwo they resolve Olivia's cliffhanger - and eager to see how Walter deals with all the wrongs he has done to the alt-universe" Evans

[Lord Ash]

Ah! Jason, I am glad you've been watching!

I too love the ending... I mean, we knew that Olivia was the AltOlivia, but still...

I think they have a very interesting possibility here... to effectively replace a main character with the same person. I sort of hope they spend a LONG time with the AltOlivia in place... let her work cases as she fits in, and let her grow and change a bit... meet her sister, meet the niece she never had... it is still, sort of, the same character, yet at the same time with a whole new element. Of course, she doesn't know Peter (in fact, she assumes they are a couple) and it will be very strange because their relationship will begin with the WRONG Olivia in place!

And then, to top it off, our REAL Olivia is clearly going to be driven crazy in the Alt world, so when she DOES get back into the show regularly, she will not be the same woman we knew...

I was wondering how they would handle Nemoy... I suppose they did need to get rid of him. I agree with you, he was a nice addition. I enjoyed his and Walters interactions... speaking of Walter, man John Noble is just SO darn good, he makes up for a little bit of the lacking acting chops of the other two main characters.

Really enjoy the alternate world touches, and how devastated it was... puts it in a whole new perspective...

A little nod to the nerds: you notice the comic books in frames on the walls of the place that Peter went? The Dark Knight Returns (Frank Miller) cover, but with Superman in place, and a Justice League comic with, among other people, Gambit from the X-Men in the group... plus I think a Superman comic (can't remember which...) with the Batman logo... lots of neat nods to the nerds among us

A really daring ending and, if they do it right, a really daring way to revamp a show without a jarring, nonsensical change.

[JasonEvans]

Really enjoy the alternate world touches, and how devastated it was... puts it in a whole new perspective...

Yup, that was a huge part of what we learned. Apparently, when Walter crossed over for the frist time and stole Peter, it ruptured the fabric of the alt-universe in some way and there have been "Fringe events" happening on a massive scale over there. I froze my HD-TV when Peter was flying over New York and the computer in his helicopter was reporting on the Fringe events. I read the detail on the "New York Triangle." It had swallowed 7 light aricraft and several boats. Then we get to Madison Square Garden which had been encased in amber to stop a Fringe event from spreading. 10,000 people inside MSG had been encased in amber too and the computer tells us that they have just been declared legally dead. Later on, we saw a massive amber enclosure with bodies frozen inside it at Harvard with a sign outside that read something like, "Gone but not forgotten," with the names of the folks who were trapped in the amber.

A little nod to the nerds: you notice the comic books in frames on the walls of the place that Peter went? The Dark Knight Returns (Frank Miller) cover, but with Superman in place, and a Justice League comic with, among other people, Gambit from the X-Men in the group... plus I think a Superman comic (can't remember which...) with the Batman logo... lots of neat nods to the nerds among us

There was a comic book cover for the Red Lantern and the Red Hornet... not Green. The Superman comic with a Batman logo was for The Death of Superman... instead it is The Death of Batman.



If you want a clue as to where the show is going next season, I am betting we are going to see a lot more of Sam Weiss (shown above), the bowling alley manager dude who has been Olivia's shrink (at Nina Sharp's recommendation). Wanna know why?

Well, the Glyphs that show up before every commerical spell out messages. Usually, the message relates specifically to that episode. For example, they spell out thinks like MEMORY or WINDOW. For all of season one and the beginning of season two, the glyphs spelled out simple words that did not make any sense strung together. The word always just related to that one individual episode.

But, the second half of season two, the glyphs started telling us something. The past few episodes have spelled out...

FATHER
REVEAL
PETERS
ENERGY
SECRET
BRIDGE
HEART
RETURN
WEAPON

Then, the season finale spelled out the word WEISS.

Plus, in the alt-Harvard leb, there was a phrase written on the chalkboard. It said "A DEMONS TWIST RUSTS" on it. This is an anagram for "DON'T TRUST SAM WEISS". If Walternate does not trust Sam Weiss, I am betting that he will be instrumental in helping to find and return the regular Olivia to our world.

Anyway, this show is my new Lost, my new passion

--Jason "JJ is da' man!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

The Harvard quaranatined area with people frozen in amber--



The sign outside read, "Neither dead, nor forgotten."

--Jason

[Lord Ash]

Hey!

Yep, I saw the Harvard one, and I loved the MSG thing about them just being declared legally dead; it gives the alt world a real feeling of a history. Very neat stuff. Does the amber stuff relate to the frozen people in the bus from way back in season 1? Very cool detail about the people being neither dead or alive...

Are we supposed to recognize the guy who was burned to a crisp on the bridge in Central Park...? Does he have a modern day equivalent?

AMAZING find on the glyphs! I knew they meant something, but I had no idea what... I saw the writing in Walternates lab, but didn't figure out what it meant... good stuff. I would hope we find more about that guy; he has been kept so "mysterious" it was bugging me. I wonder if AltOlivia will run into him...?

Thanks on the comics stuff; yeah, I should have recognized the Death of Superman cover! I knew it was familiar, but couldn't place it. I saw the Red Lantern bit, but missed the Red Hornet...

I totally agree about it being the new Lost. I feel like it has the potential for a lot of depth and interesting twists... it might not be quite as "smart" as Lost was at times, but still... a nice mix between "random" story episodes and "storyline" episodes, and these last few were great.

How long do you think we'll have AltOlivia in place of real Olivia? And how nuts do you think real Olivia will go? That was a pretty horrible end shot of her...

[A-Tex Devil]

I mentioned in another post how good this show has gotten -- I think in Flashforward.

Anyway, some thoughts:

1. Wasn't there a "freak of the week" episode in Season 1 where a whole busload of people were encased in amber? Nice call back, if so.

2. I hope the alt-Olivia storyline doesn't last much longer than shapeshifter-Charlie did. These people are too smart, and alt-Olivia too ignorant of our world, for this ruse to last more than a 3-4 episode arc.

3. Is the thought in alt-world that the only way to save it from the fringe events that are occurring is to destroy our world? I hope so, otherwise it's just pure evil/revenge. I don't like that motive as much. I like the idea of Walternate sacrificing the kid he just got to see again to save his world. Greater good and all...

4. So Walternate is the one who wrote that crazy book (the ZFT?). That's why the manuscripts were in his handwriting.

[JasonEvans]

1. Wasn't there a "freak of the week" episode in Season 1 where a whole busload of people were encased in amber? Nice call back, if so.

Yup, The episode was called The Ghost Network. This is sure starting to feel like a show where stuff has been plotted out quite a bit in advance. Stuff from early-mid season one is only beginning to be explained and becoming relevant now at the end of season two. Me like!!!

Here is an image of the amber bus from early in season one.

2. I hope the alt-Olivia storyline doesn't last much longer than shapeshifter-Charlie did. These people are too smart, and alt-Olivia too ignorant of our world, for this ruse to last more than a 3-4 episode arc.

Agreed. The interesting thing will be to see if she can be won over a little bit to "our side." I suspect she will develop feelings for Peter too.

3. Is the thought in alt-world that the only way to save it from the fringe events that are occurring is to destroy our world? I hope so, otherwise it's just pure evil/revenge. I don't like that motive as much. I like the idea of Walternate sacrificing the kid he just got to see again to save his world. Greater good and all...

I think a lot of this is Walternate-driven. I could see him wanting revenge and being driven almost mad after losing his son the way he did. After all, we know that Walter's psyche is fragile, no reason to expect his counterpart in the other world to be perfectly sane.

Lets say Walter kidnapping Peter set off some ugly Fringe events in the alt world. Then, as the alt world attempts to understand what is going on, Walternate becomes the answer man and he grows in power. Heck, it is possible that he has been Defense Secretary with near unlimited powers for 10+ years. He formed the Fringe Division and strongarmed it into an extremely powerful organization that answers to no one but him.

This does not have to be everyone in the alt-universe being evil and conspiring to kill our universe, it merely needs to be Walter wanting to do that.

4. So Walternate is the one who wrote that crazy book (the ZFT?). That's why the manuscripts were in his handwriting.

I totally missed that. When did they talk about that in the finale?

-Jason "we've got some decent Fringe conversation going... now we need to get more folks following this show!!" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

I totally missed that. When did they talk about that in the finale?

-Jason "we've got some decent Fringe conversation going... now we need to get more folks following this show!!" Evans

At some point they mentioned his book and I believe they showed it as the ZFT. I believe it was cited as why he was so influential in alt-world May have been in first part of finale. Can't remember exactly the context. Sepinwall/TWoP/AV Club may have a reference of it, and I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Lord Ash]

Hey guys,

Yeah, Walternate wrote the ZFT manual; I believe they said that last week, that Walternate had written the ZFT manifesto and it was a hugely famous text in the alt world.

About Walter being a bit... well, having a screw loose; remember, he had part of his memory (brain) removed by Bell, at his own request. That, I assume, is what sent him to the institution. I think that, since Bell died young in the alt world, Walternate never would have lost that part of his mind, and so he is not necessarily as mentally fragile as our Walter. Who knows... he might be awful scary powerful...

Do I get credit for mentioning the bus thing on the last page? Yeah, I really love when shows call back older stuff. Fringe is VERY good at it; they have made little references throughout the show to other episodes... I loved the use of the other-side typewriter, for example, that we haven't seen in a while...

I honestly think they could do the AltOlivia thing for a LONG time, if it is handled right... I mean, it IS Olivia, as far as her spirit and her personality and all! Maybe she doesn't have the same knowledge, but she does have some of it... after all, the worlds aren't totally different, and who knows what she studied... it just seems like it could be SO interesting if done carefully, allowing us to continue to get to know the main characters we know with one slight difference... and I think the potential for a truly crazy ourOlivia coming back is just so sweet... after all those years Walter spent locked up, it is wonderfully ironic that now it is Olivia who is locked up and likely to go mad...

Tex, I think that is the idea; the Alt world isn't evil... they see OUR world as these kidnapping jerks who have destroyed huge parts of their world... they see US as the bad guys. I don't think the writers will give in to some "We are good, they are evil" thing.

BTW, the actor who plays Charlie must be so happy to be back

Lord "Yeah, come on folks, get watching! Honestly it has been much more interestingly written than Lost was at the end, if you ask me... remember, it IS a JJ Abrams show!" Ash

[A-Tex Devil]

Yeah, Walternate wrote the ZFT manual; I believe they said that last week, that Walternate had written the ZFT manifesto and it was a hugely famous text in the alt world.

Or looking at it a bit differently, Walter with a full brain is a megalomaniacal, remorseless, unethical, sociopathic scientist willing to experiment on anything to prove his theories and test the boundaries of science (which would fall in line with his willingness to use his son to destroy alt-world).

Our Walter recognized this in himself in a moment of clarity and had those parts of his brain taken out, leading to his insanity, but giving him a bit more humanity.

Just a theory.

[Lord Ash]

Yep, and a VERY likely one... pre brain-removal Walter certainly seemed like a bit of a mad scientist...

[BD80]

Love the show and the comments on this board. Thanks to everyone for all of the detail and background. I particularly enjoyed the comic book covers reveal. Touches like that really add to the enjoyment. I recognied the amber and remembered the episode, but had forgotten that the amber contained a fringe episode. Does this mean that in a couple hundred thousand years from now a decendant of insects in the Altuniverse will create "Fringe Park?"

AltOlivia simply can't go undiscovered for long. Peter is a genius who has solved otherwise unsolvable mysteries. He and Olivia have too shared many intimate details about their lives and their romance is at such a sensitive point that he would undoubtedly notice. I suppose they could try it, shapeshifter Charlie got away with it. From a plot standpoint, I think they will have a couple interesting scenes which causes Peter to suspect, and then Olivia's niece makes an observation which reveals the deception.

The issue will become: can they trust AltOlivia? She will appear to want to help Walter and Peter to save the Alt universe and thus our universe, but she will keep secrets. She and Peter will get close, Peter will confuse his feelings for AltOlivia and Olivia, AltOlivia will die if she goes back, Peter is confused, AltOlivia makes a sacrifice to save Olivia, Olivia comes back altered - not the woman Peter remembers loving, AltOlivia didn't lie to him the way Olivia did when she knew Peter was from Alt-universe, Peter is confused.

The only certainty is they can't let Olivia and Peter get together with any measure of stability - it will kill the show.

Speaking of Big Bang Theory, I would love the characters to give "Fringe" a shout out the way they do "Serenity."

[JasonEvans]

Speaking of Big Bang Theory, I would love the characters to give "Fringe" a shout out the way they do "Serenity."

This week they gave a shout-out to The Good Wife...

...but that is a fellow CBS show. Serenity was not on TV when they gave it a shout out. The odds that CBS top comedy, Big Bang Theory, will plug a show on Fox are slim and none.

--Jason "we gotta get Fringe's ratings up!!" Evans

[Reddevil]

I read an interview with JJ Abrams yesterday. He said the altOlivia theme will permeate the first third of next season. My apologies, I cannot remember where I read it.

[Lord Ash]

Okay folks... thoughts on "Fringe?"

LOVED that Bubs was on it, playing the cabbie! Love that actor; just seems to create such a sense of empathy. I think he will stick around. Interesting that next weeks episode seems completely removed from the alt-world... they are just going to roll with it being a fairly normal "X-Files"y episode... very cool, actually I thought they would just ignore real Olivia, but interesting that they dealt with her straight out and got it out of the way in the first episode.

Anyway, I have to say, I enjoy "Fringe," and I am impressed that they really seem willing to mess with the fundamental elements of the show.

[Lord Ash]

Ahh, bringing the Fringe thread back! Good! The show has a few Duke connections, including using a shot of Duke campus and having a Duke grad play a bad guy!

Jason, curious to see what you say when you see the premier finally.

[JasonEvans]

I watched it last night. Pretty good episode.

LOVED that Bubs was on it, playing the cabbie! Love that actor; just seems to create such a sense of empathy. I think he will stick around.

I too think he will show up again. I figure he will be the person who helps the real Olivia remember who she really is. I was a bit surprised when they showed him driving away in a different direction at the end of the episode. I sorta thought they would show him following her and alt-Charlie as a sign that he wanted to stay involved in what was going on with her.. Hmmm. Still, they showed him watching Olivia for a reason. I have to think he will come back and play a role in the real Olivia's eventual escape from the alt-world.

Interesting that next weeks episode seems completely removed from the alt-world... they are just going to roll with it being a fairly normal "X-Files"y episode... very cool, actually

My bet is that we will see a couple episodes that feel like those X-File investigation episodes because they need to establish that alt-Olivia is fully immersed into real-Olivia's life. They are going to build on her relationship with Peter (heck, maybe she will actually fall in love with Peter) and the best way to do that is to have them together for several episodes before the truth comes out. It could be interesting to find alt-Olivia torn about her loyalties.

As an aside, I bet Walter is the one who figures out that alt-Olivia has come back with them. Peter won't believe him... at first.

I thought they would just ignore real Olivia, but interesting that they dealt with her straight out and got it out of the way in the first episode.

They have really set up some interesting storylines, that's for sure! I like the fact that we are going to get to see the real-Olivia doing stuff other than just being on the run or being questioned in the alt-universe. It will give us more glimpses into the alt-universe. It allows them to do more with her character over there. Clever plotting! I also like that alt-Broyles asked Walternate what the ultimate plan was for Olivia in the alt universe and Walternate did not answer. Something is up but we won't find out about it for a few episodes.

-Jason "I just wish this show had a bigger following-- it has a better constructed story than just about anything else on TV" Evans

[killerleft]

I'm wondering which William Bell is still living? And if the other one really died in a car accident. Ow, my head!

[JasonEvans]

I'm wondering which William Bell is still living? And if the other one really died in a car accident. Ow, my head!

Leonard Nimoy says he is 100% retired from acting and will not return to Fringe. I think he is not in the greatest health so I am inclined to believe him.

--Jason "pity, I think a lot more could have been done with William Bell" Evans