Greatest Clutch Athlete

[Indoor66]

(I got this idea from the Dream vs Redeem Team thread on the EK Board. Since it is not Duke specific athlete, I created it here. Move it if appropriate.)

Who do you think is the greatest clutch athlete? I can think of several - Babe Ruth, "Mr. October" - Reggie Jackson, John Elway, Paul Hornung, John Unitas, Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Christian Laettner, Bobby Orr, Pele, Maurice Richard, and many others.

What are your thoughts on who is the greatest?

For me, the modern greatest has to be Tiger Woods. He has performed, when he has had to, since he was 17 years old and continues, quite regularly, to make the great shot or putt when he needs to.

[willywoody]

as much as it pains me i'd say michael jordan.

[billybreen]

as much as it pains me i'd say michael jordan.

I agree, but before it's all said and done I may well change my vote to Tiger.

[lmb]

Joe Montana

Tiger Woods is probably the most clutch though.

[Bluedog]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Joe Montana
T-3. Tiger Woods/Larry Bird
5. Muhammad Ali
6. John Elway
7. Tom Brady
8. Pete Sampras (biased choice, just want some tennis representation! )
9. Reggie Jackson
10. Jerry Rice
11. Jack Nicklaus
12. Sandy Koufax

That's all I've got for now...

[allenmurray]

Of all time? Heck, I don't know. Of one particular moment? Brooks Robinson in the 1970 World Series.

[JasonEvans]

Even through our Duke blinders, we have to admit that Jordan is the man when it comes to the "clutch" quality. Not only is it almost impossible to count how many clutch, game/championship-winning shots in his career, I am at a loss to come up with any clutch shots he missed. I am sure there are some, but nothing comes to mind.

Jordan was 6-for-6 in NBA Finals appearances (winning the MVP every time). He won the national championship for the hated Heels as a freshman. I am sorry, but no one else comes close.

Tiger is a great second choice though he would appear to be far better protecting a lead than coming from behind. His career playoff record (something like 15-2, I think) also speaks quite well for his ability to perform in the clutch. Still, I rank him well behind MJ.

Montana, Elway, and Brady are amazing players, but football is such a team sport I have a hard time giving any individual too much credit. for any of them to be clutch, they need a heck of a lot of teammates to be helping out. Maybe that should not diminish their accomplishments, but to me, it does.

--Jason "good question-- do we need a poll?" Evans

[CameronBornAndBred]

Tiger has mine, his records in playoffs is incredible, as his is record on leading on Sunday.

[Bluedog]

Even through our Duke blinders, we have to admit that Jordan is the man when it comes to the "clutch" quality. Not only is it almost impossible to count how many clutch, game/championship-winning shots in his career, I am at a loss to come up with any clutch shots he missed. I am sure there are some, but nothing comes to mind.

I remember a commercial a while back talking about how many times Jordan has missed a game winning shot...

Here is the Nike ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hFFyGkzoRo

"26 times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot, and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life, and that is why, I succeed," Jordan says in the ad. Don't know how accurate that is, but I assume they did some fact checking.

[ugadevil]

I'd go with Jordan. Part of the reason he sticks out to me is because he knew when to take the big shot, and he knew when to get the ball to his teammates in clutch situations. I think one of Michael's biggest clutch plays was getting the ball to Steve Kerr to knock down the shot in '97 to win the game and the championship.

[billybreen]

I'd go with Jordan. Part of the reason he sticks out to me is because he knew when to take the big shot, and he knew when to get the ball to his teammates in clutch situations. I think one of Michael's biggest clutch plays was getting the ball to Steve Kerr to knock down the shot in '97 to win the game and the championship.

Where were you when I needed you in the 'Dream Team vs. Redeem Team' thread?

[jma4life]

Didn't he miss game winners against the Lakers in game one of the 91 finals and against the Pacers after the Reggie shot? Both of them were actually banks that spinned out if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, I agree, its Jordan and its not too close.


Although I think HOrry is pretty high on there because of the discrepincy between his normal play and his clutch play. Jordan was always nasty. Tiger is always nasty.

But again, its still Jordan with Tiger second imo.

[Ben63]

Tiger.

Thats really all that needs to be said

[CathyCA]

I'm Duke blue, through and through.

Christian Laettner.

[Lavabe]

I'm Duke blue, through and through.

Christian Laettner.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

[YmoBeThere]

Edwin Moses...the dude didn't lose for years, 100+ races.

[mph]

Tiger narrowly over Jordan for me.

[calltheobvious]

Even through our Duke blinders, we have to admit that Jordan is the man when it comes to the "clutch" quality. Not only is it almost impossible to count how many clutch, game/championship-winning shots in his career, I am at a loss to come up with any clutch shots he missed. I am sure there are some, but nothing comes to mind.

Jordan was 6-for-6 in NBA Finals appearances (winning the MVP every time). He won the national championship for the hated Heels as a freshman. I am sorry, but no one else comes close.

Tiger is a great second choice though he would appear to be far better protecting a lead than coming from behind. His career playoff record (something like 15-2, I think) also speaks quite well for his ability to perform in the clutch. Still, I rank him well behind MJ.

Montana, Elway, and Brady are amazing players, but football is such a team sport I have a hard time giving any individual too much credit. for any of them to be clutch, they need a heck of a lot of teammates to be helping out. Maybe that should not diminish their accomplishments, but to me, it does.

--Jason "good question-- do we need a poll?" Evans

The text I bolded sort of makes the SABRmetric point that it's tough to find support for the existence of "clutchness" in the first place. Check out the names listed. Almost to a person, we're talking about the greatest of all-time. We should expect the greatest of all-time to come through more often "when it counts" than anyone else, because, well, they're the best. One could argue that this is a chicken-egg discussion, except that all of those people also performed at the highest level when the spotlight wasn't so bright.

As for the difficulty of remembering failures, it's not because there weren't many. It's because they're not as exciting, and thus don't stick like the successful efforts do.

CT"Is the play-off record of Mark Lemke not enough for you to dismiss 'clutch' in favor of 'random?'"O

[Olympic Fan]

I'm not an NBA guy, so I'm not qualified to tell you Jordan's clutch success vs. failure ratio in the pros. I'm sure he was a clutch player, but the NBA's best ever? I don't know ... was he really better than the guy nicknamed Mr. Clutch (Jerry West) or a guy like Russell who won 10 titles in the 11 seasons he was healthy?

I do know that as a college player, Jordan was anything but clutch in big games. Yes, he hit the game-winner against Georgetown in 1982 and that was clutch -- although you should remember that it was James Worthy (who later earned the nickname 'Big Game James') who carried UNC to that victory (28 points on 13 of 17 shooting). It was Worthy who was the Final Four MVP ... the East Regional MVP and the ACC Tournament MVP.

I do know that after Worthy graduated, Jordan consistently failed to deliver the clutch basket or the clutch performance when it counted.

In the 1983 ACC Tournament semifinal loss to NC State, Sam Perkins and Brad Daugherty were great -- but Jordan stunk up the place with a 4-of-12, 13-point performance. He was awful against Ohio State in the regional semifinals (5 of 15 from the floor). He was better against Georgia with 26 points -- but he was under 50 percent from the floor (11 of 23) and was outplayed by Georgia's James Banks -- the guy he was guarding was voted the regional MVP!

Jordan was national player of the year as a junior in 1984. But UNC again lost in the ACC semifinals, this time to Duke. Jordan wasn't as bad as he was against State the year before ... he had 22 points, but again shot under 50 percent (11 of 23) and couldn't hit the shots in the clutch to beat the Devils. He also missed the first shot of a one-and-one with the score tied late.

After a fairly easy first-round win against Temple, when Jordan played great, he ended his college career with the most famous individual flameout in ACC history. Guarded by a slow white guy named Dan Dakich, Jordan missed 8 of 14 shots and finished with 13 points as top-seeded UNC was upset by a young, not-very-good Indiana team (which lost in the next round of the tourney to a Sampson-less Virginia team that had finished 6-8 in the ACC). I know foul trouble is the typical UNC excuse for his meltdown, but he did play 26 minutes and was about as effective as Matt Doherty.

Some clutch player ... one clutch shot as a freshman, yes, but failure after failure once Worthy was gone and Jordan became UNC's star.

[willywoody]

I'm not an NBA guy, so I'm not qualified to tell you Jordan's clutch success vs. failure ratio in the pros. I'm sure he was a clutch player, but the NBA's best ever? I don't know ... was he really better than the guy nicknamed Mr. Clutch (Jerry West) or a guy like Russell who won 10 titles in the 11 seasons he was healthy?...

Some clutch player ... one clutch shot as a freshman, yes, but failure after failure once Worthy was gone and Jordan became UNC's star.

good points. his nba career definitely overshadows his ncaa career. i didn't follow his college career at all and am always surprised when i hear he was player of the year as i don't have any memories of him in college except for that georgetown game his freshman year.