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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Florida

    Zack Greer graduates Duke, will use last year of eligibility at Bryant

    According to The Chronicle and Inside Lacrosse "anonymous sources" have confirmed it:

    http://chroniclesports.wordpress.com...-for-pressler/

    http://blogs.insidelacrosse.com/2008...attend-bryant/

    Should provide a big boost to the Bryant program, which is debuting in Division I this year. What does it mean for Duke's title chances next year?

    Note: since Zach got his Duke diploma this year, he's not technically leaving, he's just not choosing to use his 5th year of eligibility at Duke.

    Note': It may not have been his "choice" as it has been rumored that he was not accepted by Fuqua, but was accepted by Bryant's B-school.
    Last edited by KBCrazie; 08-12-2008 at 12:03 PM. Reason: added Chronicle link and clarification of thread title, added Note'

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Lewisville, NC
    That's a pretty interesting development. I didn't even know where Bryant was (Rhode Island) until reading the linked pieces. Seems to me like a great expression of loyalty to Coach Pressler on Zack's part.

    Wish him well. He has been a terrific player for Duke.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    I wish Zack well...he will be missed. But as an avid lacrosse fan as well, this is not all that surprising. There was a lot of talk this year about Greer leaving Duke to be closer to Canada and home, which is what he wanted. This move can also be viewed as a way to be with Coach Pressler again, which again is something that Greer wanted. While I haven't talked to him obviously, I do know some members of the team who while they like Coach Danowski many liked Pressler as a Coach. Remember Pressler was the one who originally recruited Greer to Duke as opposed to many of the other top programs who were very interested in him.

    In terms of our chances for this upcoming year Greer leaving will definitely hurt our chances. We still have a fantastic attackman in Quinzani and we still have fantastic midfielders and a great faceoff man Sam Payton. I think we will have a great team but will have to overcome some major losses. If we can overcome these I think that we will have a great season with a great team.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2007
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    New York, NY
    Without some facts, it's hard to know what to make of the decision. If he was accepted to Duke's MBA program, it seems like a poor business decision to go to a relatively unknown place like Bryant. Not only does he miss out on a chance for a lacrosse NC with Duke, he misses out on the education. If, however, he wasn't accepted by the B school (which would seem a bit odd, since the B school has different criteria than the Med or Law Schools and so would presumably have some latitude if grades were an issue--and I have no idea about his grades or anything at all about the guy), then he would face an interesting dilemma. If he were unable to stay at Duke and did want to get an MBA, then it seems unlikely that he'd get into another top business school (ie, why would he get into Cornell or Virginia if he didn't get into Duke). Under that scenario, might as well join up with his old coach.

    In a different scenario, he lost his father midway through freshman year, has strong feelings for Pressler, wants to coach, and relishes the idea of being a sort of player/coach during his 5th year.

    Or maybe he just likes colder winters.

    Either way, next year will be very different for him. He had been one of the stars on what may have been the most talented team in NCAA history. Next year, they'll presumably lose most of their games.

    Anyway, good luck to him.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    Without some facts, it's hard to know what to make of the decision. If he was accepted to Duke's MBA program, it seems like a poor business decision to go to a relatively unknown place like Bryant. Not only does he miss out on a chance for a lacrosse NC with Duke, he misses out on the education.
    I agree but Bryant offers a one-year MBA program, while Duke's MBA is two years. And he only has one year of lacrosse eligibility left; so that could have played a role as well since I assume he is going to join Major League Lacrosse following this year. That way he can still have a business degree and play in the MLL - while if he was at Duke, he'd have to wait another year to play in the MLL or not get his degree.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Best of luck Zach! It was a pleasure following your career.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by KBCrazie View Post
    According to The Chronicle and Inside Lacrosse "anonymous sources" have confirmed it:

    http://chroniclesports.wordpress.com...-for-pressler/

    http://blogs.insidelacrosse.com/2008...attend-bryant/

    Should provide a big boost to the Bryant program, which is debuting in Division I this year. What does it mean for Duke's title chances next year?

    Note: since Zach got his Duke diploma this year, he's not technically leaving, he's just not choosing to use his 5th year of eligibility at Duke.

    Note': It may not have been his "choice" as it has been rumored that he was not accepted by Fuqua, but was accepted by Bryant's B-school.
    Thanks for the links. There must be more to this story. Perhaps Zack expected to be in Fuqua and there was a last minute snag. I have a hard time understanding why UVa or UNC would not have taken him in b-school. (Maybe Zack did not want to play against his old teammates at Duke.) In fact, I have a hard time believing Fuqua would not take him. Zack is the best attackman in the country and not a slouch academically.

    Perhaps he is motivated more by wanting to do something for Mike Pressler, to help rehabilitate the man's reputation, which was tarnished so unfairly in the lax incident.

  8. #8
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    Feb 2007
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    MKE
    No offense intended to Zack, but Duke is a top-10 business school, likely has one of the lowest acceptance rates among b-schools in the country, and like most business schools basically requires significant (post-graduate) work experience. Even if Greer was not a "slouch" academically, getting into Fuqua is not exactly assured for anyone. Having a successful athletic career only goes so far in graduate school admissions.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by phaedrus View Post
    No offense intended to Zack, but Duke is a top-10 business school, likely has one of the lowest acceptance rates among b-schools in the country, and like most business schools basically requires significant (post-graduate) work experience. Even if Greer was not a "slouch" academically, getting into Fuqua is not exactly assured for anyone. Having a successful athletic career only goes so far in graduate school admissions.
    A good number of Duke athletes have applied to Fuqua in the past and been admitted, even without work experience. While I do not know exactly the particulars, I understand Zack was qualified to be admitted to Fuqua. And, perhaps well-qualified on a relative basis, in the mix of athletes who have gone on for their MBA. Fuqua is out of the top 10 now with US News. At a time when it was even higher ranked than today, kids like Quin Snyder enrolled without business work experience. I think it is fair to allow athletic experience to supplant the work experience requirement (a lot of leadership, hard work involved).

    The answer to the question might be as easy as looking at the list of plaintiffs in the ongoing lawsuit by 38 current and former lax players.

    http://www.bork.com/downloads/02-21-08-Complaint.pdf

    With this going on perhaps the U was not interested in providing any extra consideration, other than honoring its original scholarship commitment to Zack, without a concession from Zack.

  10. #10
    Do you know Greer's GPA? GMAT scores? Have you read his essay(s) and recommendation letters?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Durham
    It's well known that Zach wanted to be closer to home (Whitby, Canada), and that he did not want to play against his (now) former teammates. I have no idea what his grades, GMATs, or letters of recommendations said. I do not think he was all-Academic ACC, which meant he did not regularly get 3.0 or higher GPAs. I also do not know how much room, if any, Duke had in their scholarship budget. (While the 5th year was great in terms of giving the players another chance, there are still only 12.7 scholarships per year. At 45,000+ per year, it is a bit much to expect parents to pay that when they can get assistance elsewhere. Due to the move from Division II to Division I, Bryant probably has more flexibility, i.e. had not made the scholarship commitments that Duke had made.)

    He is a terrific lacrosse player, and we were privileged to watch him for three and a half years. It's unfortunate that his Duke experience did not result in the ultimate success he and his teammates strove to achieve. Best wishes to Zach in all future endeavors.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    Do you know Greer's GPA? GMAT scores? Have you read his essay(s) and recommendation letters?
    the essay and recommendation letters, one may presume were fine.

    He was ACC Honor Roll, so that is a 3.0 or better. As to what he may have had on his GMATs...he was recruited by Princeton for Lacrosse, I believe, so one might infer from that he takes a pretty good standardized test.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by buddy View Post
    It's well known that Zach wanted to be closer to home (Whitby, Canada), and that he did not want to play against his (now) former teammates. I have no idea what his grades, GMATs, or letters of recommendations said. I do not think he was all-Academic ACC, which meant he did not regularly get 3.0 or higher GPAs. I also do not know how much room, if any, Duke had in their scholarship budget. (While the 5th year was great in terms of giving the players another chance, there are still only 12.7 scholarships per year. At 45,000+ per year, it is a bit much to expect parents to pay that when they can get assistance elsewhere. Due to the move from Division II to Division I, Bryant probably has more flexibility, i.e. had not made the scholarship commitments that Duke had made.)

    He is a terrific lacrosse player, and we were privileged to watch him for three and a half years. It's unfortunate that his Duke experience did not result in the ultimate success he and his teammates strove to achieve. Best wishes to Zach in all future endeavors.
    I would have to think that Zack and his mother are plaintiffs in the lawsuit against Duke has bearing in this.

    Matt Danowski could stay on a year with his father a coach - free tuition. Zack might have been able to go to Fuqua, but what would have been the financial aid package? He is the best attackman in the country, so Duke has to allocate some scholarship money if he stays. The rest?...well as an undergrad, if Zack otherwise qualifies for financial aid, there might be quite a bit of additional grant money on the basis of need. B-schools, on the other hand, are (at least they used to be) notorious for awarding grants solely on the basis of merit - and you just borrow the rest. Bryant, might have given him a full ride for the 08-09 year. So, he weighs the options...which might have possibly been as follows:

    A) Stay at Duke, get into Fuqua, get 1/2 of an athletic scholarship his first year at Fuqua, borrow $90k over 2 years as there is little financial need-based grant aid, and withdraw as a plaintiff from the lawsuit; or

    B) Go to Bryant, play for his coach, attend graduate b-school for free in year one on an athletic scholarship and for free in year two on a merit scholarship (based on possibly a higher GMAT than average and his Duke degree), and stay with his former teammates who continue to press the litigation.

    First year of Fuqua also has got to be tough playing a varsity sport, when all of your classmates are doing nothing other than booking it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    the essay and recommendation letters, one may presume were fine.

    He was ACC Honor Roll, so that is a 3.0 or better. As to what he may have had on his GMATs...he was recruited by Princeton for Lacrosse, I believe, so one might infer from that he takes a pretty good standardized test.
    In other words... no, no, no, and no. Meaning you're not even close to a position to speculate on why he's not going to Fuqua.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    In other words... no, no, no, and no. Meaning you're not even close to a position to speculate on why he's not going to Fuqua.
    I would say that I am as close or closer than the poster who speculated that Zack Greer was denied admission to Fuqua. This was third party, anecdotal, with no reference cited.

    Now, if you go back and check, you will find Zack Greer was recruited by Ivies for Lacrosse. Yes, he may have been on the ACC Honor Roll just 2 of his years at Duke, or maybe it was three?, which implies about a 3.0 average. There is a strong correlation between performance on the Math and Verbal SAT and performance on the GMAT. I can tell you of specific instances of athletes who have been admitted to Fuqua when Fuqua was higher rated than it is today, with most likely lower credentials than Greer. One may reasonablly surmise, imo, that the reasons Zack Greer did not stay on for another year and attend Fuqua were at least as likely to be related to his being a plaintiff in a lawsuit against the University, his loyalty to Mike Pressler, and wish to be closer to home.

    This is a discussion board. It is only fair to consider what is likely, and I submit it is more likely that Fuqua was an option, had Greer wanted it badly enough. So, yes, based on what I know and could reasonably infer, where Greer was recruited out of high school (good SATs which correlate with GMATs), that he made Honor Roll, his leadership qualities, it is highly unlikely that Fuqua was not an option, albeit, possibly with conditions.

  16. #16
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    At a time when it was even higher ranked than today, kids like Quin Snyder enrolled without business work experience.
    Quin Snyder didn't enroll in just Fuqua, he did the JD/MBA program. It is much more common for students to do the combined program just out of undergrad as they typically start with law school (commonly done straight from undergrad) and start mixing in business classes the second year.

    In Quin's case, he didn't do the combined program directly from undergrad, but rather a couple years later. He graduated from Duke undergrad in 1989 and received his JD and MBA degrees in 1995, 6 years later. The joint program is a 4-year program, meaning even he took a couple years off in between

    VERY FEW students go directly to good business schools, with the main reason being that they would have no context for the classes. They tend to be completely out of their element.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Just FYI, another lacrosse player, Tony McDevitt, just this past year was admitted to Fuqua and played a fifth year at Duke.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Clipsfan View Post
    Quin Snyder didn't enroll in just Fuqua, he did the JD/MBA program. It is much more common for students to do the combined program just out of undergrad as they typically start with law school (commonly done straight from undergrad) and start mixing in business classes the second year.

    In Quin's case, he didn't do the combined program directly from undergrad, but rather a couple years later. He graduated from Duke undergrad in 1989 and received his JD and MBA degrees in 1995, 6 years later. The joint program is a 4-year program, meaning even he took a couple years off in between

    VERY FEW students go directly to good business schools, with the main reason being that they would have no context for the classes. They tend to be completely out of their element.
    You post is very fair. Tony McDevitt, a 5th year senior this past season, and an ACC Honor Roll student like Greer, was a first year student at Fuqua this past season, and is about to start his second year. I do not know the specific comparison between the two kids. I believe Tony had an offer or two on Wall Street, but chose to stay on another year and attend Fuqua in the alternative.

    I also agree that work experience is very helpful for the b-school context. When I did my joint degree program I had just 1 year of experience. I, personally would have gotten more out of it if I had another year or two of work experience under my belt.


    From the 2007-2008 roster on goduke.com:

    "Preseason First Team All-America choice ... candidate for the William F. Schmeisser National Defensive Player of the Year honor ... returning two-time All-America selection ... listed as the sixth-top defenseman in the nation by Inside Lacrosse magazine ... did not participate in fall practice while recovering from knee surgery performed in June, 2007... graduated from Duke on May 13, 2007, majoring in history with a minor in economics ... currently pursuing an MBA in Duke’s Fuqua School of Business ... ACC Academic Honor Roll pick."

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    Just FYI, another lacrosse player, Tony McDevitt, just this past year was admitted to Fuqua and played a fifth year at Duke.

    I was a little too slow at the switch

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    This is a discussion board. It is only fair to consider what is likely, and I submit it is more likely that Fuqua was an option, had Greer wanted it badly enough.
    Let me repeat. You have absolutely no clue what this kid's GMAT scores are, you have absolutely no clue what his essays looked like, you have absolutely no clue what his recommendations looked like, and you have a slight clue that his GPA might be around a certain value (a value which is significantly lower than Fuqua's average, by the way). It's fine to consider what is likely, but you have no idea what is likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    I would say that I am as close or closer than the poster who speculated that Zack Greer was denied admission to Fuqua.
    Saying "since Duke is such a highly rated school and I don't know anything about this kid's application, it's possible he didn't have what it takes to get in" is reasonable. Saying "I have a hard time believing that UNC or UVA wouldn't accept this kid" when you know absolute crap about him is not reasonable.

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