Olympic swimming

[Lavabe]

Is there any other sport where records are so subject to the environment of competition? Is every Olympic venue in the future going to build slightly deeper and wider pools so that new records can be set?

IMHO, it devalues the notion of a record somewhat since you can't make apples to apples comparisons between venues.

Example:
Baseball: I hypothesize that pitchers at pitcher-unfriendly parks would not hold many long-standing records. Cubs? Rockies?

Turning around your question:
Can you name a sport in which records are NOT subject to the environment of competition?

Cheers,
Lavabe

[hc5duke]

Example:
Baseball: I hypothesize that pitchers at pitcher-unfriendly parks would not hold many long-standing records. Cubs? Rockies?

Turning around your question:
Can you name a sport in which records are NOT subject to the environment of competition?

Cheers,
Lavabe

shot put?

*edit* though I suppose you could argue that the quality of air (e.g. homeruns in Denver issue) might affect this event as well...

I would also argue that fighting sports such as boxing, judo, taekwondo, and wrestling are not subject to the environment of competition.

[billybreen]

Turning around your question:
Can you name a sport in which records are NOT subject to the environment of competition?

It's a question of degrees. While track and field events are subject to temperature, wind, humidity, etc, those factors vary day to day and are out of control of the event planners. This feels more like a systemic weakness of the measurement methodology that venue construction can have such an impact on the records.

[Lavabe]

shot put?

I think the authors of this article have been studying environment's effects on shot put:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12020998

EEK!

[Cavlaw]

It's a question of degrees. While track and field events are subject to temperature, wind, humidity, etc, those factors vary day to day and are out of control of the event planners. This feels more like a systemic weakness of the measurement methodology that venue construction can have such an impact on the records.

Again, for what it's worth, I think the "venue impact" is being dramatically overstated by reporters who have little invovlement with swimming. No doubt the water cube is a "fast pool", but there are many such facilities in the world (and, indeed, world records were being broken regularly leading up to the Olympics this year).

The suits are also a factor, as are rules changes, technique refinements and workout regimines, among other things.

[Lavabe]

It's a question of degrees. While track and field events are subject to temperature, wind, humidity, etc, those factors vary day to day and are out of control of the event planners. This feels more like a systemic weakness of the measurement methodology that venue construction can have such an impact on the records.

don't you think that the changes in track surfaces have had an effect on records? Those are certainly in the control of event planners.

[wisteria]

I am more amazed by the effect the new speedo suits supposedly have on the swimming records. I heard that it improves your time by like 2%, which sounds like a lot. This leads me to wonder, should this kind of technology be considered "performance enhancer"? Because, while the pool shouldn't affect the relative performance, not everyone wears the same suit. I heard that some Asian athletes don't wear the newest speedo, not because they can't afford them, but because the new suits just aren't made in that size. What?

[hc5duke]

don't you think that the changes in track surfaces have had an effect on records? Those are certainly in the control of event planners.

yeah this is why i didnt include it in my list. I would imagine quality of shoes would be another factor.

[rthomas]

don't you think that the changes in track surfaces have had an effect on records? Those are certainly in the control of event planners.

It's the shoes.

[wisteria]

It's the shoes.

ah... shoes, too. well, never mind my argument earlier then. I guess if we want to eliminate all the factors that could enhance performance, then we may have to swim naked and run barefoot.

[Lavabe]

I guess if we want to eliminate all the factors that could enhance performance, then we may have to swim naked and run barefoot.

Isn't that what they did in the Olympics in ancient Greece?

[billybreen]

Again, for what it's worth, I think the "venue impact" is being dramatically overstated by reporters who have little invovlement with swimming. No doubt the water cube is a "fast pool", but there are many such facilities in the world (and, indeed, world records were being broken regularly leading up to the Olympics this year).

The suits are also a factor, as are rules changes, technique refinements and workout regimines, among other things.

Cool. I separate technology and conditioning advances somewhat because I think we'll always see a linear progression of year over year improvements across sports from those. What I'm more curious about are the less predictable differences that the venue can have. If that isn't as big a factor as has been discussed, it's a moo point (like what a cow thinks, it doesn't matter).

[billybreen]

Isn't that what they did in the Olympics in ancient Greece?

No, they swam in ancient grease. It's a lubricant.

[hc5duke]

Isn't that what they did in the Olympics in ancient Greece?

from the rut, my favorite Aussie web comic/blog

[Lavabe]

I am more amazed by the effect the new speedo suits supposedly have on the swimming records. I heard that it improves your time by like 2%, which sounds like a lot. This leads me to wonder, should this kind of technology be considered "performance enhancer"? Because, while the pool shouldn't affect the relative performance, not everyone wears the same suit. I heard that some Asian athletes don't wear the newest speedo, not because they can't afford them, but because the new suits just aren't made in that size. What?

I can't think of a sport that hasn't been affected by technological change that you'd consider a performance enhancer. Tennis rackets, shoes, clothing, etc...

hc5: Don't say SHOT PUT.

Hmm... wrestling? beach volleyball?

[Indoor66]

beach volleyball?

Improved sunglasses frames?

[hc5duke]

I can't think of a sport that hasn't been affected by technological change that you'd consider a performance enhancer. Tennis rackets, shoes, clothing, etc...

hc5: Don't say SHOT PUT.

Hmm... wrestling? beach volleyball?

I'll yield that today's shot put athletes (shotputter? shotputtist? shotputhlete?) go through a much better training regimen due to technology

[Lavabe]

No, they swam in ancient grease. It's a lubricant.

Ugh! Didn't someone post something like this a while ago in some obscure thread when we were talking about eating Turkey and hunting Wales?

[billybreen]

I can't think of a sport that hasn't been affected by technological change that you'd consider a performance enhancer. Tennis rackets, shoes, clothing, etc...

hc5: Don't say SHOT PUT.

Hmm... wrestling? beach volleyball?

I think you have to consider conditioning enhancements to be technological changes, so volleyball and wrestling aren't immune. But again, I think there's a meaningful difference between steady performance gains from technology and less predictable changes to the environment. The former is in the hands of the athletes and their trainers.

[billybreen]

Ugh! Didn't someone post something like this a while ago in some obscure thread when we were talking about eating Turkey and hunting Wales?

I missed that one. I'd hate to think I could be accused of plagiarizing such a stupid pun.