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  1. #1

    Luol Deng to Greece?

    Panathinaikos of Athens has already made an offer to Luol Deng.
    He might follow Josh Childress' path to Europe.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by italiancrazie View Post
    Panathinaikos of Athens has already made an offer to Luol Deng.
    He might follow Josh Childress' path to Europe.
    At this point, it appears as though Luol made a mistake by turning down the $55M offer last summer.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    If I got offered tons of money to play a game in another country, I'd have to seriously think about it. Basketball every year is becoming more of a world sport, evidenced by the Olympics. The NBA might be the grand daddy, and hopefully it will always be the premiere option, but I doubt it. Hockey is the same way. A few NHLers have left for foreign leagues that are big names.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by gotham devil View Post
    At this point, it appears as though Luol made a mistake by turning down the $55M offer last summer.
    Maybe. I guess we will have to see how everything turns out. I am not 100% confident in the reports, but if the greek offer (which I have heard numbers like $72million over 3 years... which is tax free, there, remember) is true, how is turning down around $11mill a year (which you take home maybe $6.6mill) for $24million a year a mistake? Remember, Deng is international, and Greece is a beautiful place. It may be that the numbers are bull (notice where I went, there ) and that Deng ends up signing in the NBA for less than $11million a year, but I wouldn't necessarily say it is a mistake yet.

  5. #5
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    Orlando, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by gotham devil View Post
    At this point, it appears as though Luol made a mistake by turning down the $55M offer last summer.
    I don't think that Luol made a huge mistake turning down the Bulls contract extension last year. Other NBA teams know that the Bulls can match any offer, so he is not getting many offers. Basically, the Bulls are the only team that he can get big $$$ from now.

    He was hurt last year and is reportedly 100% now. If he plays to his pre-injury form, he will get at least $55 million next year when he is an unrestricted free agent. Also, the Bulls seem to be going nowhere fast and he will be able to have more options about where to play.

    So other than delaying the big payday for one year, I don't see much wrong with his decision.

  6. #6

    Tax analysis

    Fwiw, I don't understand the tax-free analysis. Many countries, including the US, tax their citizens on worldwide income. I think Deng is a UK citizen and I would be surprised if the UK did not have a similar provision. UK and European income tax rates are generally even higher than the US income tax rates. Also, my understanding is that Greece taxes foreign residents on all income they earn in Greece.

  7. #7
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    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by barely View Post
    Fwiw, I don't understand the tax-free analysis. Many countries, including the US, tax their citizens on worldwide income. I think Deng is a UK citizen and I would be surprised if the UK did not have a similar provision. UK and European income tax rates are generally even higher than the US income tax rates. Also, my understanding is that Greece taxes foreign residents on all income they earn in Greece.
    Fran Fraschilla, ESPN's resident European hoops authority, said the other day that the club often pays the player's tax obligation, and that agents work for the league, leaving a player's salary as 100% net income. Frankly, that seems hard to believe, but I believe that's what he said.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Fran Fraschilla, ESPN's resident European hoops authority, said the other day that the club often pays the player's tax obligation, and that agents work for the league, leaving a player's salary as 100% net income. Frankly, that seems hard to believe, but I believe that's what he said.
    I would think that meant that they grossed up the income to cover the tax so that the net income was the amount agreed upon.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I would think that meant that they grossed up the income to cover the tax so that the net income was the amount agreed upon.
    Correct!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by barely View Post
    Fwiw, I don't understand the tax-free analysis. Many countries, including the US, tax their citizens on worldwide income. I think Deng is a UK citizen and I would be surprised if the UK did not have a similar provision. UK and European income tax rates are generally even higher than the US income tax rates. Also, my understanding is that Greece taxes foreign residents on all income they earn in Greece.
    The US is the only country I'm aware of that taxes citizens and residents for income earned abroad (though I'm sure there are a few others that do). Green card holders are taxed as US citizens by the IRS. I assume he has a green card at this point, but I might be wrong. I'm sure some other countries do it, but it is not common. The UK does not tax its citizens for income earned while residents of another country.

  11. #11
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    Washington, D.C.
    It would be interesting to hear more about what life for a player in Greece is like. I am sure that the facilities are not on par with those in the US, either for training or playing or probably travel. On the other hand, the schedule and travel might be far less grueling, and life in general might be much more pleasant if a player is curious and bright, which Luel seems like he might be--he went to Duke, right.

    It struck me that Childress, when he signed, was in for a wonderful adventure, in contrast to the grind and glitz of the NBA, but I really don't know. Would be a great piece for a journalist to do. ESPN and the other talking head stations won't do it because they make their dough showing high lights from the NBA, not Greece.

    Where's Jumbo when we need him!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    The US is the only country I'm aware of that taxes citizens and residents for income earned abroad (though I'm sure there are a few others that do). Green card holders are taxed as US citizens by the IRS. I assume he has a green card at this point, but I might be wrong. I'm sure some other countries do it, but it is not common. The UK does not tax its citizens for income earned while residents of another country.
    That is correct, however, assuming his contract is grossed up to cover his tax liability, and assuming Greek rates are at least 35%, he will receive a Foreign Tax Credit to cover the full amount of taxes paid to foreign governments on income earned abroad
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    It would be interesting to hear more about what life for a player in Greece is like. I am sure that the facilities are not on par with those in the US, either for training or playing or probably travel. On the other hand, the schedule and travel might be far less grueling, and life in general might be much more pleasant if a player is curious and bright, which Luel seems like he might be--he went to Duke, right.

    It struck me that Childress, when he signed, was in for a wonderful adventure, in contrast to the grind and glitz of the NBA, but I really don't know. Would be a great piece for a journalist to do. ESPN and the other talking head stations won't do it because they make their dough showing high lights from the NBA, not Greece.

    Where's Jumbo when we need him!
    You've apparently never read Paul Shirley's book or his ESPN blog.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    You've apparently never read Paul Shirley's book or his ESPN blog.
    Who? What's he got to say. Is it as swell over there as I imagine? Or does he trash it, in which case who can rely on what he says because he works for the NBA extended.

  15. #15
    Grossing up to cover taxes is insanely expensive in the US, since the amount of the gross up is itself taxable, and the obligation to pay all taxes means the provider pays the tax on that amount, as well, which payment is then itself taxable. The calculation rises to absurd levels before the last of it is paid, and it is one of the bigger problems in a number of the golden parachutes corporate executives received in the 80s and 90s.

    No idea how the gross up would be treated in Greece.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavlaw View Post
    Grossing up to cover taxes is insanely expensive in the US, since the amount of the gross up is itself taxable, and the obligation to pay all taxes means the provider pays the tax on that amount, as well, which payment is then itself taxable. The calculation rises to absurd levels before the last of it is paid, and it is one of the bigger problems in a number of the golden parachutes corporate executives received in the 80s and 90s.

    No idea how the gross up would be treated in Greece.
    My guess would be that the gross up would be to cover taxes incurred working in Greece. I doubt it would be to account for any US taxes. Of course, Deng would be obligated for the taxes due. If any US income taxes were due he would get a credit for foreign taxes paid on the income. I have no idea about the rates but it would be a great deal for Deng.

  17. #17
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    Oh that Shirley Paul. I just checked out his book on the web and it sounds interesting.

    His agent, Keith Glass, is an old acquaintance of mine. His older brother and I played high school ball together. Keith was a pretty good ballplayer himself. Was on the freshman team at UNC. He knew the coach, whom he ended up representing for years. Small world.

  18. #18
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I was just going to come here to post that. The reported 6 year contract worth upwards of $70 million is a better deal than the 5 year $57 million extension he turned down last year. Congrats to Luol.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotham devil View Post
    At this point, it appears as though Luol made a mistake by turning down the $55M offer last summer.
    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    I was just going to come here to post that. The reported 6 year contract worth upwards of $70 million is a better deal than the 5 year $57 million extension he turned down last year. Congrats to Luol.
    6 years 80 million $.
    http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8...f-monster-deal

    Not too bad. Not too bad at all.

    Knowing Luol, he'll probably blow a bunch of it on charitable and humanitarian efforts.

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