More On Pregame Stretching

[greybeard]

Ain't it impressive. I mean, you turn on a game these days, any game, football, basketball, it don't matter, and you see these guys splayed out on the floor, getting stretched out by a teammate or often times a trainer. Man, this stuff looks like it should do a considerable amount of good. Yeah right! Looks, my friends, can be deceiving.

Here is another little something to think about when you see these guys stretching out their hammies, quads, inner thighs, groins, even achillies: what about those appendages at the ends of both legs, you know the ones I'm talking about, they're called feet.

By the time they do all this stretching, those feet are tied up in form fitting shoes. Only problem is, the alignment of the toes, and up through them into the upper bones of the feet, up into the ankle joint, are left to fend for themselves. Now, one might say that who cares about toes as long as they don't hurt. I mean, turf toe will sideline you, but, short of that, what's the diff.

Here's the diff: how the toes contact the ground, how each of them moves up and down or not, the direction each points, the extent of how each is twisted and which way it twists and moves easier, impacts dramatically both how the foot pushes off the earth, and how the rest of the bones in the leg align and how the muscles in the leg develop and fire.

Yeap, your eyes heard me right sports fans, the toes and the feet. To paraphrase that great expert in movement, "If you want to know, why your hips and knees hurt you so, it's in your feet, yes it is, it's in your feet." Betty Everett.

So, you ask, what's to be done with them, you know, to make them and the rest of our bodies more functional. Later, first I suggest that you pay attention for a moment. Stand in your bare feet, comfortably, and observe. Feel where the weight is on each of them, it will be different, I can assure you, wildly so. Then, examine (feel) each toe. Does it touch the ground, is it bent in hammer fashion, is it flat, does it bend in towards the big toe or out, is it under another toe. Do you feel it at all. After you do that, we'll talk. Later.

[Fish80]

Interesting, for sure, but connect that back to the pre-game stretching. Are you suggesting that pre-game stretching should include stretching of the unclad toes and feet?

[dkbaseball]

GB, my Iyengar yoga teacher didn't believe in stretching. Said most joints need to be tightened, not stretched, and the muscles will become more flexible as you tighten up the joints. I have to say that my experience confirms this view somewhat. Did your Iyengar instructor have a position on stretching?

And maybe this is the right place to pose a question, and I hope EJ looks in since he just went through this. My achilles is getting very sore after I play handball, which I'm currently doing once a week, just some not super-strenuous doubles. Does this pain in the achilles mean it's decidedly more likely to tear soon, which I really, really couldn't use right now? Did you get warning signs, EJ?

In the same vein, does anybody have experience with the Egoscue method of dealing with joint pain and such by getting the body back into alignment through various exercises? Seems to be similar to Iyengar yoga. I'm intrigued by the concept, but it would involve going to Atlanta and paying $250.

[BlueDevilBaby]

I'm supposed to stretch my feet every day to avoid the return of plantar fasciatas, as well as strengthen my ankle with other exercises, none of which I am doing, of course.

[Lavabe]

greybeard: this almost belongs in EarlJam's men's feet thread, but I'm glad it's up here.

So what should I do to relieve the following morning situation:

Lavabe wakes up.
Lavabe stands up.
Lavabe's right calf locks up. It takes about a good 5 Frankenstein-like saunters for Lavabe to walk semi-normally.

It happens every morning. At no other time of the day does it get this way.

FWIW, tips of big toe, 4th & 5th toes are the ones I feel the most. Right big toe bends a little towards the 2nd toe.

SO... what should I do with my toes/feet?

general question: Can someone explain why I can't spread my toes? ILoveJimmy and LegacyLady can, but I can't. Why?
Thanks,
Lavabe

[greybeard]

greybeard: this almost belongs in EarlJam's men's feet thread, but I'm glad it's up here.

So what should I do to relieve the following morning situation:

Lavabe wakes up.
Lavabe stands up.
Lavabe's right calf locks up. It takes about a good 5 Frankenstein-like saunters for Lavabe to walk semi-normally.

It happens every morning. At no other time of the day does it get this way.

FWIW, tips of big toe, 4th & 5th toes are the ones I feel the most. Right big toe bends a little towards the 2nd toe.

SO... what should I do with my toes/feet?

general question: Can someone explain why I can't spread my toes? ILoveJimmy and LegacyLady can, but I can't. Why?
Thanks,
Lavabe

here are a few things:

1. stand with feet a comfortable distance apart. Now, we have all done heal lifts, i.e., pushing into the front of the foot and lifting the heals. This is what I suggest based upon a strategy called Bones for Life, which is an offshoot of the work of my boy Moshe:

do one of those but only enough to get the heals slightly off the ground like an inch or less, and then let the heals fall. Like bop-bop. Do it again only less. Have your body relaxed, jaw slack, arms hanging. Anyway. when you get the hang of bop-bop, so you can do it with ease. Do a series of 15, pausing at rest only momentarily between, so your effort will be less. lift the heals and then let them fall, and hit the ground only softly because you lifted them only softly.

do that 3 times a day. It will help everything.

The reason that you can't spread your toes Lav is you don't practice. Here's what you might do, which is the second experience. Sit in a chair, rest one foot on the other knee, the outside ankle not the bottom of the foot (wouldn't want you to end up in the hospital so I thought I'd better make that clear). Now take your big toe between your thumb and your fore finger, on the top or bottom, or sides, whichever feels more comfortable, and pull it slightly to lengthen, but only what is comfortable, as you do, twirl the toe clockwise, again no pain, and counterclockwise. Notice which way is easier, greater range of motion. do five times in the direction that is easier. Now do five in the other direction. Did that direction become easier?

Now, bend the big toe towards the left and then towards the right. Again, notice which is easier. Five in the easy direction, and five in the other.

Now, place forefinger on the tip of the toe, and push in towards the foot. The toe should bend at the knuckle. Again only so far as no pain. Then take hold and pull toe out and down, again no pain. Which is easier. repeat the easier one five times and then do the other, noticing change.

Repeat for all five toes. Lie down on the ground on your back. put hard pillow under head for comfort. Notice if there are differences between the two feet. Between the two calves; the backs of the thighs, the quads, the hips, the lower back, the mid back. How these parts except for the quads touch the ground. How come? We'll talk some more. There are many more variations.

Then get up and walk around. Notice the difference in how you use the two legs.

Probably a good idea before you start this to lie on the ground and take a similar inventory as described above. Then, you will have something to measure against.

There is another very, very effective method again from Bones for Life, which I will describe later. More than enough for now.

Fish80, the work on the feet that I have in mind should be done in the locker room. They needn't be done before every game, but should be done 2-3 times a week. Can take as short as 10 minutes, and as long as 40; depends on what you are after and where you are in your body. As of now, athletes and trainers don't have a clue. We would start with number 2 above, only get much more involved. Enough for now.

Oh, Lav, you can do the other foot if you want to. Or walk more asymetrically than usual for awhile.

I forgot to mention that when you take the inventory standing to see whether the weight is more on the heals or the toes on each foot, inside or outside, in addition to the toe thing. We'll get there.\

Soon, I might cut a CD for working in this way to work on your feet. If so, I will make it available; just the charge for the CD and shipping, if I ever get around to it.

[greybeard]

Hey, if Moses waited for that, I'd be waiting tables in Cairo. So here goes, I'll try to do justice to another very worthwhile experience from Bones for Life.

Here's the deal, you'll need to stand near a wall, facing it, so that you can lightly touch with your hands like shoulder height with your arms bent just for balance. We are going to use toe lifts again, but with lots of variations.

We all have one foot we prefer to push off of, that holds more of our weight when we are standing still than the other. Note which one that is for you (Lav, you might have to guess, which ifs perfectly okay since I doubt anybody else is still reading).

1. Put the strong foot slightly forward of the other, about as if you were shooting a basketball, only if you are like me and your left leg/foot is the one you push off of that will be forward, even if it is aft when you shoot.

2. When we are working, we will shift all the weight onto that foot, and use the other for balance. You might try bending the knee slightly, putting the ball of that foot so it just rests on the ground, and let the hip of the off leg to relax, to hang down.

3. Now, as you push onto the ball of the front foot, and lift the heals of both, allow your head to look up and back along the ceiling as far as comfortable. Yes, Lav, you most certainly can and should allow your back to bend (arch). As you let your heal down, bend the knee slightly and allow your back to bend the other way, chin towards the chest and back flattens and even curves the other way, again only what is easy.

4. Do this four or five times. See the extent to which you are seeing more of the ceiling.

Now the interesting part.

5. start in standing in the same configuration, only let your weight bearing leg put all your weight on your little toe. Repeat 3-4, using the little toe.

6. Do the same for each of the toes. Rest in between as needed. Walk around. We want this to be easy, done without strain or fatigue. Noticing the differences is what is important. How far you can see on the ceiling or how "well" you do the movement (how high you lift up, how strongly) isn't although that is certainly worth noticing.

7. Now, walk around a bit and come back to the wall. Take your stance as before. Focus on the space between the little toe and the next toe. Do 3 & 4 pushing into that space, using both toes.

Rest a moment.

8. Take your place again and this time focus on the space between your big toe and the next one, the space that the strap from a flip flop would occupy. Repeat 3 & 4. Pay attention and do not strain.

Walk around using that space as the push off point. This is where the real power can be generated from.

PS, if you are like me and the toe on at least one of your feet next to your big one is hammer-toe like, you might try this: take your stance near the wall, and then put the arch of your other foot over the big toe and second toe. Press down but not to the extent that it hurts, then do 3 & 4.

Afterwards, stand on both feet and do 15 bop-bops, quick two heal lifts and taps in succession.

One of the things about working in this way on one side of the body is that the other side learns from the side that has been worked on. If you have the time, working in a more abbreviated fashion on the other side will produce quick results, often more profound than on the easier side. Why? I'll let you know when I figure it out.

[jma4life]

Not to get off topic, this is interesting stuff greybeard but based on the people this thread attracts, I'd like to make a recommendation to everyone here to buy a foam roller and use it. For ten to fifteen dollars, you'll be able to give yourself deep tissue massage for the rest of your life. Personally, my body has begun to feel quite a bit better since investing in a foam roller and using it consistently for ten to fifteen minutes a day. It will be painful at first but it will ultimately get your body in better form.

Basically the gist of foam rolling is this

"First, a Quick Analogy

I won't go into too much detail (you can click on the link above if you want more), but the best analogy I like to use when describing why foam rolling works so well is by using a band. Suppose I took a regular mini-band and put a knot in it:


Many fitness professionals advocate that all people need to do is perform a series of static stretches to improve range of motion. However, if I stretch the mini-band, all that happens is that the knot gets tighter and tighter (it doesn't go away) and before long, the band will break (either above or below the knot).

This would be akin to someone tearing a hamstring playing slow pitch softball or attempting to perform the "Indrani" from the Kama Sutra. Go ahead and Google it, I know you're going to.

With a foam roller, you will break up all those knots, adhesions, and scar tissue that tend to accumulate over time and not only will you improve range of motion (no more knots), but you'll also improve overall tissue quality as well."



Couple of articles for more information.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/...1556-0,00.html


http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle...4-021-training

[greybeard]

GB, my Iyengar yoga teacher didn't believe in stretching. Said most joints need to be tightened, not stretched, and the muscles will become more flexible as you tighten up the joints. I have to say that my experience confirms this view somewhat. Did your Iyengar instructor have a position on stretching?

And maybe this is the right place to pose a question, and I hope EJ looks in since he just went through this. My achilles is getting very sore after I play handball, which I'm currently doing once a week, just some not super-strenuous doubles. Does this pain in the achilles mean it's decidedly more likely to tear soon, which I really, really couldn't use right now? Did you get warning signs, EJ?

In the same vein, does anybody have experience with the Egoscue method of dealing with joint pain and such by getting the body back into alignment through various exercises? Seems to be similar to Iyengar yoga. I'm intrigued by the concept, but it would involve going to Atlanta and paying $250.

I know two guys who have experience with the Egoscue method; neither has raved about it. One is a fellow in my feldenkrais training. I'll ask him more about it when I see him. The other is a good friend whom I have never met and know him only as "Doc," his moniker for posting on Sekou's blog on the Hawks on ajc.com. Doc is a former thorasic surgeon who now is an accupunturist, naturist in his spare time when he is not running the Hawks. If you check out the blog, you will encounter the good doctor, and just raise the question straight up to him on the blog. He'll talk your ear off.

The problem, if you can call it that, I have with Egoscue, what I know of it, is twofold: (1) it is a static method that puts control in the hands of others and does not make you smarter, and (2) does not seek better alignments that work for you in real world time but rather works on a paradigm that there is an optimum alignment.

Moshe would say that good posture is that stance that will allow one to move in all directions without readjustment. What that is for an older person who is habbitually bent over as he or she progresses towards greater functionality is nothing resembling what an Egoscue person will have in mind for you.

Imag4, I like that rolling thing, alot! Sounds like a wonderful practice.

As I've written earlier, muscles really don't stretch. In their relaxed state, there is somewhat of a heightened elasticity to them, but they do not stretch. What stretching does is to create an environment in which muscles can relax, get rid of residual holding, contraction, which is the way muscles produce force, by contracting. The problem with stretching is that it is a really fine art to effort certain muscles to create the environment so that others can relax without imputing "force" into the muscles you want to relax, which will of course keep them from relaxing.

Having the intention to effort and cause discomfort in the muscles one is working to allow others to relax and doing so without force is integral to all approaches to Hatha Yoga, including postures done in the Iyengar tradition. BSK does not spend any time giving guidence to how one cultivates that mindset, but rather is a genuis at providing many ways of exploring how to hold the posture at hand to achieve deeper and deeper experiences and thus awarenesses as to how to do them. All this is in preparation for his approach to breath work, Pranayama, which is where the real learning takes place. If you are a student of someone who teaches in the Iyengar tradition, and have completed at least one series of posture instruction, your teacher should also have a class in Pranayama. If so, and you want to learn to fly, try it. You'll like it.

[greybeard]

If you lie on the floor, and try to relax (an oxymoron, actually, how can you "try" to not do, but that is for another discussion), your body should lie easily on the floor contacting it in most parts. It don't. Why, because muscles hold residual contraction, tension. So, what's the problem with that.

The most significant problem with regard to performance is not with the muscles that do the work, it is with the muscles that should get out of the way, the antagonist muscles that must relax or the muscles that do the work will have to overcome the tension, resistence that they put up.

Let me put this in English. The reason that we do crunches with our backs stiff is that the muscles of the back, being activated, add resistence to the muscles that will lift the torso and head off the floor. Thus, the muscles that lift the torso, those in what we now call our "core" muscles, will do more work and get stronger. All well and good. But, if you need to sit up easily, and your style is to stiffen your back, you will be working at cross purposes.

If your backswing in golf isn't what you might want, you will find that you will make more progress learning how to get rid of residual tension (contraction) in the muscles of your back, then by stretching your left latt or your left butt. It is also much more interesting than struggling with all that stretching.

[Shammrog]

Some info that I have found out and tried during my fitness kick over the last year:

1. Don't stretch BEFORE working out! This even includes things like playing basketball. You should warm up by actually using the muscles - enough to build up the start of a sweat. Pre-game/activity stretching can actually hurt your performance (as verified by tests of strength and power both with and without stretching beforehand.)
2. However, stretching and increasing flexibility are good. You want to do this AFTER your activity. The muscles are warm, blood flow is good, and you are more likely to relax. This makes stretching that much more beneficial.

[EarlJam]

And maybe this is the right place to pose a question, and I hope EJ looks in since he just went through this. My achilles is getting very sore after I play handball, which I'm currently doing once a week, just some not super-strenuous doubles. Does this pain in the achilles mean it's decidedly more likely to tear soon, which I really, really couldn't use right now? Did you get warning signs, EJ?

I had zero warning signs but was going through a very stressful period. Both of my serious injuries happened when my mind, nerves were under a lot of stress.

I did strain that Achilles years ago, so that could have had something to do with it. I don't know. It took forever to heal. I'd recommend laying off the sports for a couple or a few weeks to let it completely heal.

-EJ