New AD has a plan

[Jarhead]

The front page linked us to Al Featherstone's column on Kevin White's lunch with the press, and I liked what I read, but for one little thing. Scroll down on the column, and you will see that FDA's plan to lower the field on Wallace Wade is now Kevin White's plan.

He talked about the possibility of moving the track at Wallace Wade to the school’s “New Campus” which would allow Duke to lower the football field at Wade Stadium and perhaps increase the stadium’s capacity to 40,000 seats. He talked about making Wade more fan friendly by upgrading concession stands and rest room facilities. He talked about improving the practice area – of building a field house and elongating the practice fields. He talked about a major renovation of the baseball stadium.

Actually, it may be necessary. I just didn't want to admit that FDA has been right all along. Sorry, FDA. You did get it right. Let's see what the consultants do with it.

[hughgs]

The front page linked us to Al Featherstone's column on Kevin White's lunch with the press, and I liked what I read, but for one little thing. Scroll down on the column, and you will see that FDA's plan to lower the field on Wallace Wade is now Kevin White's plan.

Actually, it may be necessary. I just didn't want to admit that FDA has been right all along. Sorry, FDA. You did get it right. Let's see what the consultants do with it.

I read the article in one of the newspapers and my first question upon seeing that line was the context in which White was speaking. Was he speaking from the standpoint of brainstorming, where all possibilities are on the table, or was he speaking from the standpoint that he's had a few meetings and here is our wish list? I suspect that it's the former, but I would like to hear from someone who actually knows.

[formerdukeathlete]

The front page linked us to Al Featherstone's column on Kevin White's lunch with the press, and I liked what I read, but for one little thing. Scroll down on the column, and you will see that FDA's plan to lower the field on Wallace Wade is now Kevin White's plan.

Actually, it may be necessary. I just didn't want to admit that FDA has been right all along. Sorry, FDA. You did get it right. Let's see what the consultants do with it.

Hey, Jarhead, yes, I think Kevin White is more focused on how WW can be transformed to make it a true D1 college Football venue. Many schools have removed the track or built new stadiums sans the track. Traditionally, removing the track in a natural bowl, was one of the least expensive ways to add seats. If you look at most natuaral bowls, or even most college stadiums, the field is below grade. Take, for instance, Notre Dame. The game day experience at Wade would be vastly improved if fans moved all the way down to the field, rather than being removed and separated as they are with the track. So, if we did this and kept the horseshoe open (which we can, you just add seats on the horseshoe end on the grade that is lowered), we are talking probably 7 - 9k seats. This leaves room for expansion at a future point through closing the horseshoe end. To me, this is the most important thing we can do. As we plan on being successful, we can plan on drawing as many fans as in the 1950s and 1960s and even more. This has to be of interest to Kevin White. We are spending money to be good in Football. We will be good, and we will be able to draw 50- 60k for a game, which helps with the money to maintain the program. In the meantime, the seats added will be very good seats and the stadium looks more impressive to recruits.

I think the original plans drawn up by Alleva were too timid - afraid of moving the track, forgetful that Duke routinely drew 45k fans in the past when the Triangle area was a small fraction of the size today. Moving the track will cost a few million. But it will be money well spent. Game day experience at Wade will be straight up, real deal Football, hard core, like the Marine Corps.

[Bluedawg]

The front page linked us to Al Featherstone's column on Kevin White's lunch with the press, and I liked what I read, but for one little thing. Scroll down on the column, and you will see that FDA's plan to lower the field on Wallace Wade is now Kevin White's plan.

Actually, it may be necessary. I just didn't want to admit that FDA has been right all along. Sorry, FDA. You did get it right. Let's see what the consultants do with it.

The only concern I've had over that is could it be done during one off season. It sounds like a major undertaking.

[Bluedawg]

I read the article in one of the newspapers and my first question upon seeing that line was the context in which White was speaking. Was he speaking from the standpoint of brainstorming, where all possibilities are on the table, or was he speaking from the standpoint that he's had a few meetings and here is our wish list? I suspect that it's the former, but I would like to hear from someone who actually knows.

Based on this comment, I think its brainstorming:

“When we went to my previous institution, we contracted a national sporting architectural firm to get a master plan. If you aggregate all the facilities that are already built and the ones that are coming out of the ground [at Notre Dame], it probably represents something like $120 million. Everything we determined that we needed became part of the plan. It’s interesting to see most of it in place eight years later. I think we need to go through exactly the same kind of exercise here at Duke.

“I really want to hear from the experts. It’s easy for us to be pedestrian architects. I would really rather the professionals come in here and take a good hard look at it and give us a sense of what all of this might look like.”

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...ATCLID=1506570

[hughgs]

Based on this comment, I think its brainstorming:

Thanks.

Assuming it's a series of brain-storming ideas then I don't think we should temper our collective anticipation that all of these suggestions will occur.

For example, look at the idea of moving the track. While I applaud the ability of the new AD to include the idea at any brain-storming session, when it gets to the level of actual implementation where ar they going to locate it? Not even FDA has come up with a "reasonable" place for the new track.

[jmb]

Thanks.

Assuming it's a series of brain-storming ideas then I don't think we should temper our collective anticipation that all of these suggestions will occur.

For example, look at the idea of moving the track. While I applaud the ability of the new AD to include the idea at any brain-storming session, when it gets to the level of actual implementation where ar they going to locate it? Not even FDA has come up with a "reasonable" place for the new track.

Check out White's quote: his idea is the new campus. Grass fields on Whitford Drive are another possibility

[Jarhead]

Check out White's quote: his idea is the new campus. Grass fields on Whitford Drive are another possibility

And there are other options, such as the land directly across Cameron Blvd from Wade Stadium and the practice fields. I don't think this is a simple brain storming session. This was a conference with select members of the media. It is the beginning volley in a campaign to upgrade DUAA facilities. I don't think that he will confine it to football stadium. He will need to raise the funds, and his campaign has started, but he will bring experts on site for assistance. I would expect the task to be done properly.

[jimsumner]

I was at this press conference. Let me add some context. At that time his wife and youngest daughter were getting ready to move to Durham. They don't have a house yet, they're living in an apartment. He knew that his daughter was going to enroll at a local high school but he didn't know which one.

In other words, this is a man who is still very much in a learning-curve, state-of-transition. I think it's telling that he's spent most of the little time he's spent in Durham meeting with coaches, support people, media. He's not the kind of person who's going to come in and start throwing his weight around just to show people he can do it; yes, Dan Snyder, I'm talking to you but lots of other people.

As for Wade, Coombs, and the rest of the infrastructure, he knows that lots of work needs to be done, he's going to make darn sure it's done at the highest professional level but he's smart enough to know that he's nowhere near ready to make firm pronouncements as to exactly what that work will encompass.

Talk is cheap, of course, but my general, early impressions are positive. I think the guy knows what he's doing, has good instincts, and likes working with people. That's a pretty good start.

[Inonehand]

I was at this press conference. Let me add some context. At that time his wife and youngest daughter were getting ready to move to Durham. They don't have a house yet, they're living in an apartment. He knew that his daughter was going to enroll at a local high school but he didn't know which one.

In other words, this is a man who is still very much in a learning-curve, state-of-transition. I think it's telling that he's spent most of the little time he's spent in Durham meeting with coaches, support people, media. He's not the kind of person who's going to come in and start throwing his weight around just to show people he can do it; yes, Dan Snyder, I'm talking to you but lots of other people.

As for Wade, Coombs, and the rest of the infrastructure, he knows that lots of work needs to be done, he's going to make darn sure it's done at the highest professional level but he's smart enough to know that he's nowhere near ready to make firm pronouncements as to exactly what that work will encompass.

Talk is cheap, of course, but my general, early impressions are positive. I think the guy knows what he's doing, has good instincts, and likes working with people. That's a pretty good start.

Right on Jim. Nobody I have talked to in the department has had anything but positive things to say. He seems to also be solidly missed by Notre Dame people too (at least those that worked for him).

I remember the days of temporary bleachers in Wally Wade for overflow crowds. We are a long way from that being a necessity but we can certainly get to the point where 33k seats are not enough. Cutcliffe has to win.

[formerdukeathlete]

The only concern I've had over that is could it be done during one off season. It sounds like a major undertaking.

I was in LA, working downtown, close to the Coliseum, when the track was removed and the field lowered. I recall going over to take a look on a Saturday after putting in a few hours. Bulldozing the field at Wade, removing the track could start right after our last home game this coming season (provided we get the permits), depending on rain, it might take as little as 1 week to get the field area down to where it would be possible to cut the current wall of the stadium, carry that off, and then start forming up the new structure. Have to reset field drainage. This comes after the new structure is in place around the field - this takes about 2 months. A bleacher company comes in and fabricates aluminum bleachers on site - these take a month to intall. The last thing is getting the field ready. You are around March and you sod the field. The spring game might have to be played on the practice fields, maybe the soccer stadium. But then you are ready to go.

In LA, as I recall, the field lowering, track removal, new stands took about 4 months, and this was in the winter when they had some rain.

re the new track location - the strategic plan calls for a new track in the new Central Campus. I'd like to see it stay on West. You know someone will donate the money for the new track complex to be named after that donor.

[Inonehand]

I was in LA, working downtown, close to the Coliseum, when the track was removed and the field lowered. I recall going over to take a look on a Saturday after putting in a few hours. Bulldozing the field at Wade, removing the track could start right after our last home game this coming season (provided we get the permits), depending on rain, it might take as little as 1 week to get the field area down to where it would be possible to cut the current wall of the stadium, carry that off, and then start forming up the new structure. Have to reset field drainage. This comes after the new structure is in place around the field - this takes about 2 months. A bleacher company comes in and fabricates aluminum bleachers on site - these take a month to intall. The last thing is getting the field ready. You are around March and you sod the field. The spring game might have to be played on the practice fields, maybe the soccer stadium. But then you are ready to go.

In LA, as I recall, the field lowering, track removal, new stands took about 4 months, and this was in the winter when they had some rain.

re the new track location - the strategic plan calls for a new track in the new Central Campus. I'd like to see it stay on West. You know someone will donate the money for the new track complex to be named after that donor.

Could it be done, yes. But, I believe there are plenty other issues to consider. For one, I think there is major water sewer infrastructure under the field. The tunnel was actually built not for players to run through but as an access for pipes. We shall see. Having sat up close to the field at a number of stadiums for football games, there is nothing like it.

[hughgs]

re the new track location - the strategic plan calls for a new track in the new Central Campus. I'd like to see it stay on West. You know someone will donate the money for the new track complex to be named after that donor.

Can you post a link to this information? It's the first I've heard of it. Or is this simply information that you've heard about.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Could it be done, yes. But, I believe there are plenty other issues to consider. For one, I think there is major water sewer infrastructure under the field. The tunnel was actually built not for players to run through but as an access for pipes. We shall see. Having sat up close to the field at a number of stadiums for football games, there is nothing like it.

There is a relatively new drainage system under the football field. The original drainage system stayed in place from 1929 until just a few years ago. After many years the system wasn't allowing the water to drain off the field well at all and was finally replaced within the past few years (five?). I suspect Bill Brill may know whether the tunnel has other functions in addition to allowing players access to the field.

[formerdukeathlete]

Can you post a link to this information? It's the first I've heard of it. Or is this simply information that you've heard about.

should be right in the body of the plan, which is linked on the goduke.com website. Unless I am mistaken, it also discussed building a new pool (50 meeters, indoor) beside the new track facility.

[formerdukeathlete]

Could it be done, yes. But, I believe there are plenty other issues to consider. For one, I think there is major water sewer infrastructure under the field. The tunnel was actually built not for players to run through but as an access for pipes. We shall see. Having sat up close to the field at a number of stadiums for football games, there is nothing like it.

If this is true, these pipes may run along below one of the sidelines - would seem more likely than that they would be under the track or the field (access). The main sewer, if it is there, could be diverted / moved to go under the new stadium seating, or lowered to continue to run under the (lowered) sidelines. Probably talking a $100k item - guess, tops, which might add 2 weeks to the timeline, I would think, so long as it is planned for properly.

Of course, we would redo the drainage for the football field. Football field related drainage plumbing would be replaced in any event.

[bill brill]

I am all but certain that the track will be removed, but doubt that it has a high priority. duke needs to fill up the current wade seats first. the idea is to come up with an overall plan, with timetables for each, which helps fund raising. foundations and people tend to give more and more quickly when they can see the specifics in front of them, i.e., a well conceived plan incorporating all of the current and new facilities.

[hughgs]

should be right in the body of the plan, which is linked on the goduke.com website. Unless I am mistaken, it also discussed building a new pool (50 meeters, indoor) beside the new track facility.

Here's the first reference I found to a new track (pg. 6):

Five years
Replace the President’s Box in Wallace Wade
Build the Performance Center
Construct a recreation complex on the New Campus
400 meter track
Squash courts
Aquatics center
Recreation center

I'm not sure that a recreation complex is the same as a varsity track. And in case you think that the strategic plan does not address non-varsity students (pg. 14):

We should provide improved club, intramural, and HPER opportunities. We anticipate at a minimum that we will need to a) increase staff for intramurals and club sports; b) provide more fields and facilities for intramural competition; and c) provide better facilities for swimming and other recreational activities. We particularly want to emphasize planning that will look at the long term needs of the university as a whole and construct facilities that will be useful to more than one team and to HPER as well as intercollegiate sports. These facilities should also be regarded as a means to improve relations with the local community.

The strategic plan clearly differentiates between varsity facilities and recreational facilities. Therefore I surmise that the strategic plan does not call for removal of the track.

So, let's not get ahead of ourselves and start believing that ideas from a brain-storming session are actually going to occur.

[formerdukeathlete]

Here's the first reference I found to a new track (pg. 6):

Five years
Replace the President’s Box in Wallace Wade
Build the Performance Center
Construct a recreation complex on the New Campus
400 meter track
Squash courts
Aquatics center
Recreation center

I'm not sure that a recreation complex is the same as a varsity track. And in case you think that the strategic plan does not address non-varsity students (pg. 14):

.............The strategic plan clearly differentiates between varsity facilities and recreational facilities. Therefore I surmise that the strategic plan does not call for removal of the track.

So, let's not get ahead of ourselves and start believing that ideas from a brain-storming session are actually going to occur.

The Aquatics center on the new Campus would be the varsity swimming practice facility. Yes, the strategic play does not specify that the 400 meter track built by it would become the varsity track facility. It is just a possible location. I would prefer a new track facility, with stands, clubhouse on West. Not all varsity sports are on West (currently), eg., field hockey, so what will happen will depend on what should work best vis a vis the track.

Its got to go from Wade. Within 5 years we may be the only bowl series d 1 school with the antiquated stadium format. Within 5 years we may also have the smallest stadium in that division. Neither helps recruiting. lowering the field and adding seats gets us at a critical mass to sustain our program. Otherwise, throw in the towel, along with the antiquated combined track format.

Keep abreast - I think White will move this forward as a priority.

[hughgs]

Yes, the strategic play does not specify that the 400 meter track built by it would become the varsity track facility. It is just a possible location. I would prefer a new track facility, with stands, clubhouse on West. Not all varsity sports are on West (currently), eg., field hockey, so what will happen will depend on what should work best vis a vis the track.

Its got to go from Wade. Within 5 years we may be the only bowl series d 1 school with the antiquated stadium format. Within 5 years we may also have the smallest stadium in that division. Neither helps recruiting. lowering the field and adding seats gets us at a critical mass to sustain our program. Otherwise, throw in the towel, along with the antiquated combined track format.

Keep abreast - I think White will move this forward as a priority.

First of all, there's a huge difference between a 400 meter recreational track and something that can support the varsity team. There are the long jump pits and the steeplechase pits to name two. Surely, you don't believe that the recreational track will include those items. So, if they don't include those items then there's no way that the varsity team is going to use the facility.

Second, you always say that the track has to be removed from Wade but offer no evidence to back up your claims. You may believe your claims that the removal is necessary but you don't offer any evidence just more of your believes.

Finally, you have yet to answer the question of where the new track will go. It's easy to say that it should be removed and that the new track needs to have some set of amenities, but you have yet to offer up a viable place.

Now, I'm not saying that you're wrong, but as of this moment I don't see any evidence, other than your convictions, that the track will be removed.