Tubby out at UK; Donovan job status?

[feldspar]

Base, I assume?

Perhaps K allows his base to be lower since he gets so much in endorsements?

[SoCalDukeFan]

If he is offered the KY job, then he can take it and be THE MAN.

If is stays at Florida he will remain number 2 to football coach.


SoCal

[jsvice]

If this were 1997 or 1987 I would say Kentucky is clearly the better job. But given that Donovan has shown he can go to Final Fours and win a national title at Florida, it is not clear to me what is better about the Kentucky job in 2007.

Florida has less pressure, more overall resources in the athletic department and a much bigger local recruiting base.

I would be shocked if Donovan leaves and think he would be making a mistake.

Bigger local base, yes. More resources? Maybe for football. Tubby was the highest paid coach in the nation. UK just built a $30M practice facility for b-ball. A practice facility!! There's a ton of D-I schools that don't even have arenas that cost that kind of money. They play in Rupp Arena which averages about 23,000 people per game. What do they get at Florida? 13,000 on a great night?
The only reason for anyone to turn down the UK job is if they are at an incredible program like Duke or UNC already. Well... that and the pressure.

-John

[gus]

If he is offered the KY job, then he can take it and be THE MAN.

Why are we still talking endorsements? Anyway, I think that deal would be better for someone like Gary, who's always talking getting screwed.

[KyDevilinIL]

...the possibility that UK could be totally screwed now.

UK's fanbase has become a flaming cesspool. When the coach at UK volunteers to go to Minnesota, something ain't right. Considering the state of college baskteball today -- when tradition doesn't seem to mean quite as much as it did just a few years ago -- coaches can make a lot of money and go to FFs at a lot of places.

I just wonder who's going to want to step into that hideous situation. Anyone who thinks UK fans are going to give the new coach a pass because he's new is an idiot, no matter how much goodwill some UK fans claim to feel now that Tubby's gone. Someone will take the job. I don't know if it'll be the big name they are clamoring for, and I don't know that it'll necessarily be an improvement. And remember Barnhart's track record isn't so great.

Seriously, I'm not a huge Tubby guy, but this has the potential to set UK back a lot of years. Not that I'll shed a tear over that...

[feldspar]

Is it just me, or was Tubby's departure before the decision of Patrick Patterson pretty much an "eff you" to UK and all his detractors?

[throatybeard]

This is why there'll be serious pressure on their AD to take an alumnus. NCSU has a notoriously irrational fanbase, but Lowe will get more leeway (i.e., years before serious moaning and whining) that a non-alumnus would. Had Chuck Amato gone to UVA for undergrad, he'd have lasted two years fewer.

[chris13]

Throaty:

And if Philip Rivers had gone to UVA for undergrad, Chuck would have lasted two fewer years than that.

I'm trying to picture Chuck reclining on the Lawn reading a biography of Jefferson.

[Susan]

Thank you for bringing joy to my morning! The picture of Amato on The Lawn at UVA made me laugh out loud!

I think a lot of UK fans would like Ford or Pelphrey (IF they can't get Donovan--I would still be surprised if he left Florida) but there is always the Matt Doherty factor to consider... both of those guys are so young and relatively unproven. This hiring process will be interesting to watch. Will we be able to print new "I SAID NO" t-shirts? :-)

[throatybeard]

Throaty:

And if Philip Rivers had gone to UVA for undergrad, Chuck would have lasted two fewer years than that.

I'm trying to picture Chuck reclining on the Lawn reading a biography of Jefferson.

Next to that statue of Taymon Domzalski.

What if Rivers had gone to Bama. Hmmm.

[phaedrus]

This is why there'll be serious pressure on their AD to take an alumnus.

so who you thinking? antoine walker? ron mercer? jamal mashburn?

[Susan]

Travis Ford or John Pelphrey

[Duvall]

so who you thinking? antoine walker? ron mercer? jamal mashburn?

The wispy mustache of Gimel Martinez?

[Mal]

dukie8, thanks for the discussion. I completely disagree on the Fisher analogy, again. As dukemsu mentioned, in 1998 Tubby came to Kentucky and didn't even know the players on his team. He installed a totally different system and won a championship. A lot of people (not ascribing this to you) seem to think all it takes to win a title is to have Rick Pitino put together some players and then you roll the ball out on the floor. If Coach K had retired in 2002, and we hired a complete outsider with no familiarity who won it all in 2003, would we give zero credit to him? Also, again, Fisher coached all of 6 games. 6 games. With Glen Robinson and a bunch of other kids he had known for 4 years. Beating a wonderfully coached but very overmatched Seton Hall in the championship game, and a conference rival in the semis. Very different.

Wow, Doyel, bitter much? He writes like Smith owed him something. I've stated before that I don't think Smith did all that could have been done at Kentucky. Think of the other top programs out there, too - it's hard to keep it going at one of the Big Six. Carolina went through a much worse period after Dean left than Kentucky has the last couple years. Indiana was getting worse and worse with Mike Davis and may never get back in the elite echelon for good. Even UCLA had some very lean years both before and after '95. Kansas hasn't won a title in 20 years.

On the recruiting front, Doyel misses a couple things. For one, Smith still managed to get Bogans, Rondo, Mohammed, Randolph, Magliorre, Prince and probably some other blue chippers I'm not thinking of to UK all on his own. I could be wrong on some of those, I don't feel like checking. They've had trouble with guys leaving, for sure, and he hasn't been able to get three guys in one year. No doubt. But it's not as bad as it could have been. Second, not to inflate it as some top rate program, but Minnesota regularly (until the last two seasons of total meltdown with Monson) fills its 15,000 seat arena for every game. The alumni, even in The State of Hockey, are cuckoo for their Gopher basketball and support the heck out of it when things are even decent. It's vastly more popular than the T-Wolves. It's the only program in the state, and until the last five years had incredible sway over in-state talent (witness the recruitment of Rickert and Humphries), who want first and foremost to play at the Barn. Monson, however, somehow spoiled that connection, starting with losing Kammron Taylor and others to Wisconsin. This year, of the top 5 prospects in the state (and they're legit prospects - not everyone plays hockey in Kevin McHale's home state), 2 are Wisconsin bound, 1's on his way to Marquette, and McD's AA Cole Aldrich, this year's Rickert, is going to Kansas. Only 1 guy's staying home. When interviewed yesterday, one of the top '08 prospects, who's been put in the "presumed to Wisconsin" bin, apparently got wide-eyed and said "Really? Tubby Smith?" and expressed that he hopes the University keeps the recruiting lines open. Bo Ryan is seething over this move.

All Smith will need to do to put Minnesota back in the top half of the very weak Big Ten is keep the in-state talent, which is more significant than many people think, and sprinkle in one other top 50-75 guy every year. That's it. His name alone will do that. Get one more top 50-75 guy from outside seasonally, or find the occasional top 30 guy, and they're in the top third of the conference and an NCAA fixture. Bank on it. I would love to wager with Doyel. Minnesota gave Monson 8 years to tank the program; they're incredibly forgiving and used to mediocrity or worse in the basketball program, yet still somehow very loyal. If Smith simply makes a Sweet 16 in his first 5 seasons, he'll have statues in downtown St. Paul. Sure, it's possible he's burned out and won't improve anything, but it's more likely, given his history, that Minnesota's in for a vast upgrade. For Doyel to so boldly predict a crash and burn is his typical extremism so he can gloat about it later in the event he's right. I will save the link to his article today and gladly send it to him in 2012 when the Governor of Minnesota authorizes the statewide observance of Tubby Smith Day.

Stop bringing clouds to this rare sunny day for a Gopher hoops follower! They're too busy thinking about the prospects of Izzo to Kentucky.

[Susan]

Magloire and Mohammed were definitely Pitino recruits.

That said, I am happy for Tubby, and happy for Minnesota. An article by Gregg Doyel is not even worth reading, in my opinion. Even if he makes some good points, they're always made in such an arrogant obnoxious way. IMO, the way he just kept harping on how Tubby is going to fail at Minnesota is written solely to provoke. (I read this article on Tubby simply because my brother-in-law, who went to UK, sent it to me. I rarely read Doyel articles anymore.)

[jsvice]

I'm a UK fan, and I sincerely hope we don't bow to sentimentality and hire Ford or Pelphrey. They would be probably the least qualified candidates imaginable.

-John

[chris13]

Throaty:

It took me a while to get the Taymon Domzalski reference.

I heard Pete Gillen doing radio color commentary last night on one of the NCAA games.

Why is your avatar the St. Louis Arch?

Are you a Cardinal fan? Then we'd have a team in common. Not that I have anything against Mississippi State.

[throatybeard]

I heard Pete Gillen doing radio color commentary last night on one of the NCAA games.

He's been doing quite a few, especially Mountain West, on Fox Sports.

Why is your avatar the St. Louis Arch?

Because I'm moving to StL in academic 2007-08. (UM-Saint Louis).

Are you a Cardinal fan?

Like most baseball fans from the rural southeast, I'm a Braves fan, but I've always respected/never disliked the Cardinals and I think I can easily adopt them as #2. (In the other league, I like Oakland and Toronto). I've bought me a Cardinals hat I like. They actually have a surprisingly large fanbase down here in MS, or maybe not surprising, given the extent of their radio network, the lack of an MLB team in NOLA or MEM, and the relative newness of the Braves down here (1966-).

You know what I like about the Cardinals? Because of the baseballyness of the town, the logo seems to transcend the sport and stand for the entire city in a way few other sports American sports logos do. I can only come up with a few:

*The "flying WV", the red Nebraska N, and the Wyoming bucking cowboy. All of these are small-population states with, historically, one I-A football program.

*Maybe the Red Sox's B? Maybe.

Some that have huge recognizability, but fail for me:

* The NYY logo (because of the Mets, and all the other pro teams in NY)
* The Cubs' C (because of the Bears' C and the White Sox).
* The interlocking NC (because of State and Duke)
* The Green Bay G (because GB is small and the team is regional/national in its following)
* The Saints' fleur-de-lis, because of the ubiquity of the symbol in French diasporic culture.
* The Reds' C (because it's the same C as the Chicago Bears)

When you see a Cardinals hat, you think "Saint Louis" in a way you don't think "Washington, DC" when you see a Redskins logo. (Rather, you think "Redskins"). Or really any of the non-linguistic sports logos. And for some reason, the Giants' SF, the Phillies and Pirates' Ps, and some others don't seem to do the same thing in my brain.

[mgtr]

I may be missing something, but I cannot see Donavan leaving Florida for Kentucky. The logical choice for UK is Pitino, but there may be a lot of essentially political problems there -- wonder what the fan base thinks of Pitino??? Love/hate relationship?

[jsvice]

I may be missing something, but I cannot see Donavan leaving Florida for Kentucky. The logical choice for UK is Pitino, but there may be a lot of essentially political problems there -- wonder what the fan base thinks of Pitino??? Love/hate relationship?

I think the fan base is pretty divided over Rick Pitino. It's safe to say that a majority of the fans would take him back, but he's an unlikely choice. The vast majority are wanting Billy D., but that seems extremely unlikely. I'd expect UK to end up with a Gilispie or Calipari, but in actuality, I'm guessing wildly just like everyone else. Forde and Dickie V. included.