Don't Forget About Dave McClure

[Edouble]

So, I admit I'm looking to redshirt someone, and Z seemed most likely candidate. Well, maybe LT? If he can't really guard bigs, does he slip toward DNP or 2 mpg by Feb? Would he benefit from a year of development? Or maybe Czyz could do a Will Graves....

Can you please put your shirts back in the hamper, sir!

I think that with all the game experience that LT's had, it's a little late to redshirt him now. He'll have the summer to do individual work and hopefully get a little stronger, but it seems to me that if he's going to play at a really high level in the ACC, now is as good a time as any to do it. Maybe he'll never be a star in the ACC, maybe he will, but I'm not sure that a year off would really do anything. I've seen guys big and small (Jason Williams, Avery, Shav) gain a ton of weight and strength in the off-season. I don't think that he needs a year off to do that. As far as being more productive in games, a little more ferocity and a little less sliding would go a long way for LT, and I don't think a year off would help him out in those departments either.

[jimsumner]

All of this talk of redshirting is wasted breath, IMO. Mike Krzyzewski has always been very reluctant to redshirt for reasons other than injuries. Matt Christensen in 1999 is the only recent non-injury redshirt and those circumstances were highly unusual; Matt was returning from a two-year Mormon mission.

if K wouldn't redshirt raw, freshman bigs like Casey Sanders, Michael Thompson, or Eric Boateng, then it's highly unlikely he would redshirt a junior like Zoubek or Thomas.

[Wander]

I think the main reason for McClure's decline from 07 to 08 is the change in our style of play - I see him as much more effective in a slow game.

[wilko]

I think the main reason for McClure's decline from 07 to 08 is the change in our style of play - I see him as much more effective in a slow game.

Possibly, but Im inclined to give him the benfit fo the doubt. We've yet to see him play a whole season injury free. Maybe 2 good knees can help him find an extra gear.

[SilkyJ]

Just to be clear, it was I, not Wilko, who tiptoed out onto the loony limb, by suggesting not only that McC get substantially increased mpg, but that Pocius....start. Now I didn't say that P is better than Scheyer, which he is not; nor that he should get more mpg than S, also a no. Rather, under my slightly daft scenario, S is not being subjected to a continuing demotion. Indeed, he still gets 25-28 mpg, 13-14 ppg, plenty of publicity (S and Danny Green or Marcus Ginyard in season-long contest for nation's best 6th man) and loads of admiration. Including mine: S is smart though not quick defensively, excellent passer, and a game-taker-over-for-10-minutes. He's a star, as I believe the Duke coaches had to remind him last year, when he deferred a bit too much at one point. As a starter, P gets a chance (yes, if healthy and actually as talented as I suspect) to explode occasionally, gets 16-18 mpg (for awhile, see if he's got it), but doesn't play at game's end, when defense on every play is crucial.

To quote one of the most quotable movies of all time: I'd like to be pimps from oakland or cowboys from arizona, but its not halloween.

thought-provoking, interesting, and even surprising/contrarian points of view are great, especially in the off-season, but the talk of marty starting is just absolutely ridiculous. come on, dude.

[Classof06]

Realistically speaking, I just don't see how McClure or Marty get legit burn next year. McClure still has an extremely limited offensive skill set and he's not a true wing or a true big man. Marty has a host of wing players in front of him. I'm not saying neither kid is going to play but they'll have their work cut out for them.

There are only so many minutes in a game and as Duke's roster improves (which I believe it has with the additions of MP1, Czyz and EWill), I think it makes it that much harder for these two to differentiate themselves.

[wilko]

Realistically speaking, I just don't see how McClure or Marty get legit burn next year. McClure still has an extremely limited offensive skill set and he's not a true wing or a true big man. Marty has a host of wing players in front of him. I'm not saying neither kid is going to play but they'll have their work cut out for them.

I see what you are saying. I'd be more inclined to share your position if not for the fact that:

1. Z, G, and LT had off-season surgeries, so hopefully they have rehabbed successfully by seasons start.

2. The frosh still have to acclimate and find their niche on the team.


These dynamics create a window of opportunity EARLY in the year for Dave and Marty to challenge, gain confidence, and demonstrate leadership. Im hopeful they will show enuff to become viable options off the bench and keep guys fresh for the durations and not hit the wall as we did last yr.

[SilkyJ]

These dynamics create a window of opportunity EARLY in the year for Dave and Marty to challenge, gain confidence, and demonstrate leadership.

You're absolutely right that their window, which is narrow, will be very early and they will need to impress from day 1.

Im hopeful they will show enuff to become viable options off the bench and keep guys fresh for the durations and not hit the wall as we did last yr.

I think they can definitely do that, but I think their real value is going to be in keeping practices competitive. They'll be around if someone is in foul trouble, or gets injured etc, but the only person who hit a wall last year was kyle, and unfortunately, neither marty nor dave can do anything about that. Lance/Zoubek and possibly/hopefully olek and MP1 are the only ones who can effect that.

[Bob Green]

I expect two scholarship players to see little playing time this season. I have no idea which two it will be but I have a hard time visualizing more than 10 players seeing the court on a consistent basis.

Seeing as we have six perimeter players and six interior players a likely scenario is one player from each category being a "practice player" this season.

In the end, I expect we will see an eight man core rotation with two additional role players seeing minutes. The last two will be odd men out.

[nicktonyg22]

I agree with Bob Green. Although McClure and Pocius are solid and very likeable players, I just don't see their skill sets being much improvement over the other guys who would see minutes. Although we don't know anything for sure about Mi. Plumlee and Olek, I envision the two of them getting minutes over the ever-injured McClure and the defensively-challenged Marty. The latter two would have to truly impress early in the year to push those freshmen to the side.

Here's how I envision our playing time averages to look this season as of right now...this is a season average number because it will obviously vary based on level of competition and matchups (don't look for this breakdown every game is what i'm saying)
(minutes are in parentheses)

Starters

Thomas (19)
Singler (27)
Henderson (27)
Scheyer (27)
Paulus (27)

Reserves

Smith (19)
Zoubek (15)
Williams (15)
Mi. Plumlee (8)
Czyz (8)
McClure (4)
Pocius (4)


I don't see Zoubek being able to go much more than 15 minutes a game this year because of conditioning and getting back on his feet. Williams has gotten less mentioning on this board recently than Czyz or Plumlee because he's another wing and the latter two address our post needs, but he's far and away the best prospect we're bringing in. This means that 15 minutes of PT could certainly increase if he's as impressive as advertised.

The number of minutes for Plumlee and Czyz also depend on their development and ability to play defense. Whether one of them proves to be significantly better than the other and cracks double digit minutes, or the two of them compliment each other by playing between 7-10 minutes a game, I think its a win-win. I would feel very comfortable with 8 men playing 15+ minutes a game with two others playing just under 10 minutes. This, however, leaves minimal action for McClure and Pocius.

[wilko]

I'll still be rooting for them to do well, as Im sure you will as well.

[nicktonyg22]

Absolutely! I didn't intend to knock McClure or Pocius, I think they are both great assets to our team and players I enjoy watching. I'm excited to see what they both can do early on in the season. The better they are, the better off Duke is as a whole. Not only will they provide much-needed depth, but will be great practice competition for everyone who is trying to find minutes. The harder and better they play, the harder and better everyone on the team plays.

[gumbomoop]

I'd guess that nicktonyg22's minutes predictions are pretty good. I'd revise as follows: McC-10; MP1-5; C-5. McC might well get 5 min/half based on defense. Bob Green is almost surely correct that 2 players will be DNP by, say, Jan., and that does probably mean P and maybe C. By that point there are a few extra mpg to go around, which would perhaps shift slightly game-to-game.

This group looks remarkably deep, if... LT, Z, and MP1 can effectively guard the opposing 5 by rotating committee. I think we all agree--and assume the coaches strongly prefer--that KS not have to guard the 5.

Every reason, therefore, to be optimistic about 08-09.

One more point, and I'd welcome deletions/additions to the following list of on paper deepest teams. I'm thinking here of a likely 10-deep (talented experience + promising frosh) rotation, at least in first half of season.

UNC, Duke, UConn, Mich St, Wake, Gonzaga, Louisville, Georgetown (?), UCLA