Karl would have given a statement himself, but he had to run down to the orphanage quickly after the game so he could kick some kids before evicting the elderly from their homes.
Is it too much to ask that he be given the State-UNC game?
Karl would have given a statement himself, but he had to run down to the orphanage quickly after the game so he could kick some kids before evicting the elderly from their homes.
Is it too much to ask that he be given the State-UNC game?
From what I have read and saw on the replay of the incident, Hess is clearly out of line.
I personally remember saying, ummm, yelling much worse things during my time at Cameron
sitting behind Dukes bench in the early 80's. Specifically, I told Lenny Wirtz to,...; wait,
this is a family forum so I won't repeat it. Lets just say that those who remember Lenny can
probably fill in the blanks. :cool:
And the ACC is not saying what Gugliotta and/or Corchiani did either. What is interesting is that the ACC will not state a reason for the ejection. I expect that the league knows that Hess screwed up but will not admit it, other than to say he didn't follow procedures. But it is interesting that they did not specify what those two individuals did to merit ejection from the arena. It sure looks like they are there with daughters. I do not know them, and did not witness their behavior. But as a father, I find it hard to believe they would have suggested that Hess perform an anatomically impossible procedure on himself with their daughters there. I expect the ACC will try to skate on this, but these are not just two slubs who got tanked up and were out of line. I think there will have to be more.
No, I was not there. No, I don't know. You're right; I went too far in saying nobody would find their behavior excessive or extreme, given I don't have first hand knowledge. I should have used more careful language. I should have said
- they have denied excessive or extreme behavior;
- the video clip (the end of the saga) does not appear to show excessive or extreme behavior;
- Yow seems perplexed;
- as do the internet reports of others who purport to have been there; and
- the ACC announcement does not detail the particulars of any excessive or extreme behavior.
From cbs sports:
10:18 p.m.: ACC supervisor of officials, John Clougherty, released a statement:
"Under Rule 10, when circumstances warrant, an official has the authority to request home game management to eject fans when the behavior, in the officials' judgement, is extreme or excessive. It's unfortunate in this instance that ACC protocol of communicating directly with the home game management was not followed, and instead, a building security officer was solicited. We will re-communicate this policy with all officials to ensure proper protocol is followed."
I am so sick of officials being so full of themselves that they act as if they are part of the action. I long for the day when technology makes them obsolete.
Last night, I went to opening night for the Derby City Roller Girls and at one point, 7, yes SEVEN, of the ten skaters were in the penalty box! We didn't come to watch the zebras skate backwards, blow their whistles and point. We came to watch muscular, real sized women in fishnets and lipstick on wheels beat up on each other!
Let 'em roll REF! Jeez, I hope the ACC comes down appropriately and swiftly on Hess. He is obviously all up in his own head.
Here is a nice article on the game and the incident:
http://www.indyweek.com/triangleoffe...wolfpack-76-62
The Independent Weekly sports blog (Triangle Offense) provides excellent coverage of ACC basketball.
The Peter Principle implies that you were good at your previous job. That doesn't apply here.*
This is more like politial careers, where you can stink and just keep going up.
--alteran
* Unless, of course, that's what you mean by "exploding in your face" and I'm just being dense.
I think a lot of these issues are created because refs are allowing too much physical play, and this is an example.
I've railed on this before.
A foul is a foul is a foul. Call the ";/-!" fouls. They are not that hard to see. Hess or any other ref shouldn't inject themselves into "managing" the game. That's on the players by simply not fouling.
Let stuff go and games get out of control easily. Call a push, call a reach in hack and call the banging...the entire game. I hate games when you hear the refs "let 'em play".
If players don't adjust to not fouling, and wouldn't that be a novel approach, they will find the bench and we'll see who has quality depth. They would stop fouling out of necessity and the game would return to a fluid style that, for me, showcases the beauty of those big athletic guys play and away from the wrestling match the game has often become.
All that said...I agree Karl Hess should be sanctioned, (from the info I have), for basically a scratch some fans inflicted on his thin skin.
Just for the record. I don't know if you guys saw the WVU - Syracuse game a week or so ago where the refs missed a very blatant goal tending call with a couple seconds left in regulation that would have allowed WVU to tie the game. Even Boeheim apologized for the bad no call after the game. Yep, that ref was Karl Hess. Possibly the worst ref in the game today.
I've been fortunate to get seats at State for Duke games within 15 rows of the court. The language from the donors is atrocious and it seems to start as soon as Duke walks on the court. I haven't been to a game at Maryland, but can compare the State environment to games at Clemson, Chap Hill, WF and South Carolina - the adult language is far worse. I suspect Corchiani and Gugs don't even realize what they're yelling half the time - it just becomes mob mentality during the games. I think as long as they're second fiddle to Duke and UNC - this will continue.
None of what I've said excuses Hess's actions though - unless they did threaten him.
can you throw guys out who have jerseys in the rafters? can't they throw HESS out?
just sayin...
I've certainly said things during a game I might not have said in other settings. But if my wife and young daughter were next to me it would cause me to self-edit. I assume the same is true for Corchiani and Gugs, so absent any evidence to the contrary, and any history of abusive behavior on thier part, I don't think we should assume they were being profane/racist/overly personal, etc.
That's what so surprising to me here, when I was a student I normally sat in the front row directly behind the scorer's table (its the "non-tv side" so everyone else would go to the otherside and it was very easy to get front row, dead center). I sat (stood) there probably 20-30 times and wouldn't dare repeat some of the things I said to the refs from the front row after 4-5 hours of waiting in line with my dear friend Busch Light. I was never thrown out. Maybe its b/c I was a student and so I was one of one-thousand saying basically the same things, but I imagine anything I said would have been 5-10x worse anything those guys said with their daughters next to them.
This reminds me a lot of the Joey Crawford incident a few years ago with Tim Duncan. Crawford is considered a solid NBA ref and was suspended indefinitely, though he obviously returned and continues to do a solid job. Hess is not nearly the ref Crawford is, so will be interesting to see what happens. I'm sure it will depend on how big a stink Debbie & State make, but I assume it will be sizable. Really interested to watch this play out.
Thank you for that link to a well written article. I love this, the penultimate paragaph:
Quote:
Facing the grim duty of reporting the Wolfpack’s ineptness, journalists consumed the event like manna from writer’s heaven. While a referee perhaps outstepping his authority and running roughshod over a school’s sporting legends in the process is a worthwhile story, its salaciousness not only deflects attention from N.C. State’s woeful effort and chronic shortcomings, but it also feeds the impulse among fans and conspiracy theorists alike to arrogate excuses in lieu of confronting causes.
Well said Wheat! I always translate "let 'em play" to "let 'em cheat". There was a time when letting a game be more physical always worked against Duke (or so it seemed to me) and I think K has adjusted over the years to be more physical. The NCAA tournament that we won in 2010 was incredibly physical. I loved winning, I would have preferred that we won 81-79 instead of 61-59. It has bothered me when people have said "they called the game evenly" and I'd reply with "they didn't call anything which allowed a lesser team to play even with a better team". We were usually the better team.
As for Gugs ad Corch, I'd love to know exactly what they said because it's pretty surprising to see them get singled out.
I wish The Playcaller would come back and give us his/her insights into yesterday's affair.
Lenny was a decent ref in a meaningless game with no crowd and no drama.
But as soon as a game got spirited, or a crowd got loud, Lenny became a "cheerleader in stripes" for whichever team he was pulling for. It could have been the visitor or the home team.
Never saw that website before! Great find!
Gotta agree, Hess and Luckie have got to be least consistent refs currently working. And what's worse, like the legendary Lenny Wirtz, they LIVE to make the marginal (or wrong) call to change a game. You seem to ALWAYS know when they are working a game, and that's not what a ref should do. The refs should be anonymous.
So who do you guys think is the worst ref right now...Hess or Valentine? I know every time I go to a game and see that Valentine is reffing I shudder. I went to the Duke Gonzaga game at MSG the year after Redick and Morrison left. There was a fan on the front row yelling at Valentine and as soon as Valentine was right in front of him he turned around and told him to shut up, as a play was happening right in front of him. I'll never forget how unprofessional he was.
I really do try to stay away from the whole reffing discussions, it can be so frustrating!
i.e. I never said a word about the 2nd half no call on the Barnes charge , when he put his shoulder down and plowed! Just sayin I never brought it up!
But this is a much different story, Hess is there to call the game (impartialy), how can that happen when he is so self absorbed in himself and /or action off the court, when his focus is not on the game! Inefficiencies,possibly bias's tend to "inadvertently" creep in!
Personally, I always enjoyed people that didn't take themselves too seriously!
Hess doesn't qualify!
The ACC, must initiate some formal response!
I think you guys ought to give poor Karl Hess a break.
It's a well established fact that when you go blind, your other senses improve to compensate. For somebody as blind as Hess, his hearing must be superhuman. Corchiani and Gugliotta may not have shouted anything nasty, but I bet they were muttering under their breath.
Seriously, this incident makes me recall that Corchiani was the victim of one of the worst calls -- and most important bad calls at that -- in ACC history. in 1989, NC State was playing top seeded Georgetown in the Sweet 16. The Pack was rallying back and were on the verge of tying the game. Corchiani drove and dished inside to a teammate who converted the game-tying basket as he was fouled by Alonzo Morning -- his 5th foul. But, NO, Rick Hartzell comes racing in and overrules the ref who called the foul on Morning and says that Corchiani traveled before oaking the feed.
It was an absurd call and cost State the game (Duke took care of Georgetown two days later). The funny thing is that Hartzell as an ACC ref and remained one long enough to precipitate one of the great screwups in ACC history -- the mismanaged ice game at Virginia in 1997 (his mistakes worked in Duke's favor in that one). That one earned him a suspension from the ACC ... the Corchiani screwup only earned him infamy from a generation of ACC fans.